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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:58 pm
by elisha
I'm a tripledat user, and am upgrading mic's, AD conversion and preamps... can anyone here explain how to best use 'dithering'? I am obviously limited by triple's 16bit limitation. I have been waiting for the new SFP HDR (new tripledat) but may not be able to wait before the next project gets started. Perhaps there is something I can learn about dithering that will help my recordings. I use Pulsar II, Vinco, Optimaster, and PsyQ as well. Reverb is Earlyfirst.

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 2:05 pm
by astroman
well, that 16-bit limit is in the written file.
Processing in the chain before and after the file is of course in Pulsar's 32-bit deepth, so it may turn out that the 'hearable' result isn't affected too much - until that long awaited recording package drops in :smile:
Of course it depends on your setup, personal preferences and the kind of music you record.
My private researches in the hifi departement(looking for a new CD player) suggest that about 90% of the units are actually 12-bit devices :eek: so 16-bit isn't that bad yet. Even the famous A16 has 'only' 18-bit converters. It's not the number but the sound that matters.

cheers, Tom

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:04 pm
by elisha
So while I'm recording AND playing back in triple, I'm hearing 32 bit? When you say "the written file" do you mean when the music is burned to CD? The music we record is both acoustic and electric instruments and vocals.

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:14 pm
by astroman
It's mostly a marketing issue that we're constantly faced with that 24/96 and above numbers.
The internal processing is done with 32-bit precision on Pulsar. 24 bits are used for digital output, monitoring, DA conversion, which is more than enough.
You cannot 'hear' 32 bit, you can't even hear 24 or 20 bit. It's impossible from the biotechnical point of view - and totally irrelevant anyway.
What you actually 'hear' are the artifacts of the output conversion stage (DA converter, amp, monitors).
The more precise the conversion, the less artifacts are noticable and the 'sound' is described as clearer, more transparent etc.
Generally the more bits are available to the converter, the better it can do it's job.
But it doesn't have to: there are unprecise 24-bit converters which simply skip a whole byte - and the filter (always present after the converter) has to be taken into account, too.
Some high end CD players use excellent 14-bit converters and expensive LC filters to yield great results.

You record vocals with a good micpre and convert them via Pulsar's analog ins with 24 bit resolution.
The EarlyFirst reverb does it's job with 32-bit precision and benefits from the enhanced resolution, even if later you only save 16 bits to a file.
You may record both the dry/compressed and reverbed signal to different tracks so save a little precision for later mixdown.
The longer the processing chain, the more significant the calculations get.
That's also what makes the 'sound' of a sequencer's audio engine. If you mix the same data by Triple, Cubase, Logic you should be able to hear differences.
Again it's the errors you 'hear' and which make the sound.

I used 'written file' for what Triple Dat writes to disk. That (currently) is 16-bit, but indeed may be tolerable depending on how you process or mixdown. On acoustic stuff 24 bit is generally appreciated for increased processing headroom, but I wouldn't record a DX7 in 24 bit.
Anyway, if you just aquired your new mics and pres, you will need some time to optimize the setup. Maybe then a 32 bit recording app by CW is already available, it would make things easier, at least there wouldn't be the bit deepth issue any more.

If not, you might consider CoolEdit Pro.
Without Triple I'd certainly stick with this. Looks a bit cluttered with so many menu options, but imho very usable.

cheers, Tom