PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Looking for any version of this converter, right now I have a green Creamware A16, and I need to add another 16 channels for my hybrid rig. A16, Ultra, Pulse, all on the table.
Looking to spend $300-600 depending on model and age.

Thank you for your time, Bruce.

Theres a couple on Reverb

https://reverb.com/au/item/47048234-cre ... XJEALw_wcB

https://reverb.com/au/item/17590106-cre ... e-shipping

Thanks for the heads-up. Wish I had seen that second one. I would have grabbed it for sure. Looks like it had one watcher when it sold, so it was not up for long.

The other has a $200 shipping charge, which pushes it to within ~$150 of a new Pulse 16, so it's a bit hard to justify.

There's actually one more up right now, about $630 shipped. I asked if it had any known issues, long warm up times, unexpected pops or clicks, etc. He replied that it has been in a closet for several years, and he "didn't remember any issues"...not very confidence inspiring; might be worth taking a chance with Reverb's buyer protection, but again. We're not so far away from a new ferrofish...tough call.

I really appreciate you finding those!

I gather you need the 2 units separate ? Otherwise, you could get a ferro 32 and sell the 16 to recoup some of the cost.

dante wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:39 pm I gather you need the 2 units separate ? Otherwise, you could get a ferro 32 and sell the 16 to recoup some of the cost.

No, to be honest, I don't really need them seperate. At least not for any reason I can think of. I had thought of the a32 as unobtainable, but it seems like prices have leveled a bit, seems like they can be had for $1800-$2200 new, I might be able to get 600 for my creamware a16 on a good day...but you're right, that's a very good idea. I just hadn't considered it because last time I priced the 32, I think it was around $3k, I may have been wrong.

The other issue is the cost of the cabling. I have a few db25 snakes, but it would be a few hundred more easily.

Still, it's an elegant, space saving solution, simplifies the system (one less thing to break), and is certainly worth looking into. I may have to save a little more than if I was to score another decent creamware, but it would overall be a better solution, longer lasting. Good call.

Yeah - this little 16 x 16 ADAT ripper is going for 1235 Euro https://www.ferrofish.com/product/pulse16-24dbu/

Plus u get MADI, TRS, midi, wordclock and phone ports chucked in.

FWIW a word of warning for those considering a used A16U

I'm on my 3rd (and last) A16 Ultra - Over the past 15 years I've replaced my original A16 TWICE with used units as I've now had 2 go down on me. I'd happily pay to get them fixed but apparently they're now unrepairable or cost prohibitive depending upon where you are in the world (??) - so now $2K odd worth of conversion retired for doorstop usage.

Now, I'm similarly on the hunt for a similar unit as replacement of my current one, ahead of the day (I'm guessing in the coming year or two) it like the others also turns up its toes. I won't be getting another A16 although I'll be sad when I eventually lose the efficient Z link connection to Scope as I've found that to be simpler and less problematic than ADAT.

My 2 cents, bite the bullet and buy something new/current like a Ferrofish, apparently they don't run as hot as the old creamware units

As an aside, I've found it hard to find a unit with features to suit my needs without having unnecessary extras. I personally only need an abundance of D/A conversion (for outboard mixing). Most of the inputs of my units go unused/wasted as I only ever record a single or stereo input at a time. So having 16 or 32 A/D is total overkill (for my home/project studio). The perfect converter for me would be a quality 2 channel A/D coupled with 16 or 32 D/A. I'd happily pay the same price with the money distributed to maximising the quality of limited inputs of A/D.

Any suggestions?

Z-link is a pretty good link, superior to Adat. Adat now works well, but it required lots of tweaking and high quality cabling.
What is the kind of defect, that makes your A16U unrepairable ?

I have 3 of them and had to repair one of them, which was labeled "unrepairable", but it ended up in a simple diode to be swapped.
Unfortunately I didn't find a service manual für A16U yet, so it required some reverse engineering on PCB level to understand the design.

Thanks for your reply @nebelfuerst

nebelfuerst wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:47 am Z-link is a pretty good link, superior to Adat. Adat now works well, but it required lots of tweaking and high quality cabling.

Totally agree. I've got my DAW machine (not Scope, RME) connecting via ADAT into my standalone Scope rig, which then feeds an A16U. I was connecting from Scope to the A16U with ADAT, but was having ongoing pops & clicks issues. I was using the DAW as master clock. My solution was to (a) make Scope machine the Master & slaving the DAW and (B) use Z-link to connect to the A16U. Still had clicks n pops with ADAT connection to the A16U, but with Z-link and Scope system running as Master the pops etc magically disappeared. Scope is so freakin' fussy, but we remain loyal regardless and jump through whatever hoops required so it's happy - happy wife, happy life - Whatever works!

What is the kind of defect, that makes your A16U unrepairable ?

The defect is that the units power on, but won't sync into anything. On one of them, the Synchronisation light is red all the time, & whilst you can change modes (from Master, ADAT, Zlink etc) it doesn't lock in and go green, regardless of either Zlink or ADAT connections. The other one, which most recently failed, sync light flashing red and is stuck on ADAT mode and can't change modes. I'm in Australia and I can't find any service person or centre who is willing to try and fix it as apparently it is such a specialised bit of gear. I contacted Ferrofish when the first one went down (4-5 years ago??), but it worked out cheaper to get a used one even just to cover the bench inspection. I don't think they will even touch these old units now, I messaged them recently on their website but haven't got a response, so assuming that's a deadend

I have 3 of them and had to repair one of them, which was labeled "unrepairable", but it ended up in a simple diode to be swapped.
Unfortunately I didn't find a service manual für A16U yet, so it required some reverse engineering on PCB level to understand the design.

Although I've actually just ordered a replacement (Ferrofish Pulse), I'd still like to try and get the 2x broken A16U's fixed if possible. It seems such a waste to let them sit there, I'd find uses for them and always good to have back-ups. I'm guessing as the problem seems similar on both, and they power on, that it's some component(s) related to the synchronisation that if we knew what the schematic specs were, and you knew your way around a PCB, you could go through methodically testing the components and identify the issue. I unfortunately don't have the electronic knowledge or technical skills to know where to begin with reverse engineering or troubleshooting this stuff. My soldering skills ends at audio cables and basic 9V power. That said I'd be more than willing to invest in someone appropriately skilled & willing to attempt to resolve, as I totally agree, it's likely just a couple of small components to swap out that could bring 32 channels of AD/DA back to life!

......Calling out for a copy of the A16U service manual.........anyone?? Ferrofish?? Pretty please? Happy to pay!

pdistefano wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:17 pm FWIW a word of warning for those considering a used A16U

IMO no warning necessary.
I bought 2 used A16U,- 1 Creamware, the other "blackface" Sonic Core.
Both work well.
Z-Link is why I wanted them,- for PCI and XITE.
It keeps ADAT ports entirely clear for interconectivity w/ other PC´s audiocards (RME p.ex.)
When there are only ADAT AD/DAs available, channel count limit is 16x16 w/ XITE (2x ADAT I/Os, 44.1/48KHz) - less w/ SMUX.

As always, electronics fail by age sooner or later.
But this can happen with new gear soon too, at least today, where almost everything is assembled in china, uses cheap components, comes w/ less good soldering quality because of RoHS (leadfree solder !) and has "planned obsolescense" built in.

And yes,- there might come the time a unit is non-repairable or repair is too expensive from the owners point of view.
But, when you used a piece of gear for decades (instead of 3-5 yrs), made money w/ it and it offers the unique connectivity you need,- it might be worth every repair possible before throwing it in the bin,- at least for me.

IMO, the chunky and heavy ext. PSU si the biggest disadvantage of a A16U and I´d wish I´d find a more compact, lightweight and for EU usable linelump (like for XITE) for the A16Us.

Z-Link is just too good because all 16 I/O channels work w/ only a pair of cables up to 96KHz,- and I can use both w/ the XITE when I want.



Bud

pdistefano wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:11 pm
What is the kind of defect, that makes your A16U unrepairable ?

The defect is that the units power on, but won't sync into anything. On one of them, the Synchronisation light is red all the time, & whilst you can change modes (from Master, ADAT, Zlink etc) it doesn't lock in and go green, regardless of either Zlink or ADAT connections. The other one, which most recently failed, sync light flashing red and is stuck on ADAT mode and can't change modes.

You used Z-Link ?
I had such "issues" caused by the cables being plucked into the PCI card´s Z-Link connectors.
The connection was just only a bit wobbly and it is posibly cause by the cables´ plugs dimensions.
These are long cables I use, so there´s some weight.

For XITE I bought very short new cables and they fit tight.

But cables vann make problems always,- so did you double check your´s are 100% good condition ?

pdistefano wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:11 pm I'm in Australia and I can't find any service person or centre who is willing to try and fix it as apparently it is such a specialised bit of gear.

This is indeed a problem when there isn´t a friend being also a skilled tech or when you cannot do anything yourself.
But unfortunately, repairs aren´t the prefered way fixing gear today,- so this can happen to you also w/ new gear.
You´ll have to replace it by a new unit or ship to the manufacturer.
This is o.k. when the unit is under warranty still, but in most cases, during this time the unity typically won´t fail.

pdistefano wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:11 pm I contacted Ferrofish when the first one went down (4-5 years ago??), but it worked out cheaper to get a used one even just to cover the bench inspection. I don't think they will even touch these old units now, I messaged them recently on their website but haven't got a response, so assuming that's a deadend

Can be and I´d won´t wrap my head around ...
You need some private person w/ skills.
I keow at least one guy in australia restoring vintage synths.
He was previously teaching at the unversity of Baton Rouge (LA, US) and traveled between US and AU.
Once I sold a Minimoog backpanel to him because he build his own just only from parts.
Then he retored the, notoriously failing, Oberheim XK I also own and restored in my home.
The next time I sold him a Prophet-5 mainboard I had left over and because he build his own Prophet from parts too.
I´m sure he has an impressive collection of gear meanwhile, all rebuild and not only simplicity of "analog".
Such guys have the knowledge and tools, they exist also in your country and it´s good to find one sooner or later.

Formerly, Yahoo vintage synth repair group was a good ressource to find skilled guys or to get all the info how to repair something.
Yahoo shut down the groops unfortunately, but many appeard again @ "Groops.io" (google !) or @facebook.
I´m no help there because I only bookmarked "Xpantastic" (Oberheim Xpander) and "YamahaDX" for the ancent FM synths I own.
But I can imagine you can find guys in Melbourne, Sydney etc. when doing the search right.
Don´t look for the comon musicshops and authorized repair centers.

Even in my area, no one want´s to do repairs anymore.
I build my own small repairshop in the basement and hire skilled techs I always search for in-house work and to keep all affordable.
And as Nebefürst said, sometimes it´s only a single cheap part to replace.
I spent hrs and hrs finding a fault and then it was just only a resistor.
I had a keyboard where the inside of the caselid touched a metal support bar once closed,- and when I used a piece of duct tape at the right place,- all issues were gone.
That keyboard crashed out of the blue while playing and I needed more than a year or 2 to find out why.

Finding faults is the most time consming and expensive when service centers do the work.
WHEN they do it ...
I got gear back from service centewrs,- payed all the shipping for nothing,- just only because I got the notification "item isn´t WORTH repair because of costs which are higher an the value of the item itself".
Well yeah, good they know that,- but for me the item might be worth more.

pdistefano wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:11 pm Although I've actually just ordered a replacement (Ferrofish Pulse), I'd still like to try and get the 2x broken A16U's fixed if possible.

I had bought a cheap Behringer 8200 ADAT AD/DA,- then try to get the A16Us repaired,- even it needs some time and you´d have to ship to somewhere.



Bud

Bud,
Thanks for your input & comments

My cables are fine as I have one remaining working A16U so I can test on this and no issues there. The A16U that went down actually was connected via ADAT directly from a RME RAYDAT. It's not cables, I checked/swapped them to test - you can't change the sync mode on the unit, it just flashes red. It's stuffed!

I suppose my "warning" was just airing my personal experience in that now twice I purchased used A16U units that have failed, in very similar ways and due to my (& I assume others similarly) location etc the challenge of repairing them is significant. I've been doing the rounds for 5 years searching for a qualified technician, even the small one-man-shows. The search continues. Whilst I totally agree these units are valuable and worth the effort to repair, to keep music making going I'm going to pivot with an alternative option. I understand the newer Ferrofish units don't run as hot as the older A16U, which I'm guessing/suspecting may be contributory to the issue with certain components eventually failing (??)

I've also got a cheap behringer unit, as well as other gear (Yamaha AW2816 with ADAT) that I can use as workarounds/sub in for 8 channels of conversion, but for me it's about the (down) time & I like to set & forget and get on with making music. It may take me another 5 years to eventually find a way to get these two units repaired. In the meantime I'll prioritise buying something suitable that enables me to get on with making music ASAP when I can, which occurs in limited bursts squeezed in-between life.