Scope installation!

A place to talk about whatever Scope music/gear related stuff you want.

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Liquid EDGE
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Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

I love scope I really do, but I’ll never understand why stuff known to not work is included in the install.

There should be 4 installs.

One for pci 32bit which includes everything,
One for pci 64bit that does not include stuff that doesn’t work on 64bit yet
One for Xite-1 32bit which doesn’t include the few seq modules that don’t work yet.
One for Xite-1 64bit which doesn’t include the stuff that doesn’t work on 64bit yet as well.

Because at first use for someone, if you see it you expect it to work, experience a crash or two and than start missing all the joy scope has to offer because your focusing on what doesn’t work.

Remove stuff from the installs and users are non the wiser or atleast don’t get made to experience a seemingly “random” crash.

I only say this, as not that it’s such a problem for me, but going through putting aside or deleting various plug ins, modules & patches. Is time consuming and a lot of people won’t even consider to do such a thing or have time. Recently, not just with scope but with the computer, I’ve been strict on myself to just remove anything that’s “problematic” as I get side tracked trying to fix stuff rather than making music. So been going through testing everything, removing problems, so I don’t get interrupted when creating. Luckily I’ve had loads of free time to do this. I’ve nearly finished getting everything as perfect as it can be.

From a modular patches point of view one can start to think a lot is not working but it comes down to 3 things,
SampleOsc, tapedelay and some seq modules… that’s it!!! Prob about 5 modules out of 100’s..

Anyhow hopefully this is a mute point in a few months time when we get Scope 8 with everything fixed for 64bit.

Btw, the stuff that doesn’t work on 64bit yet probably accounts for less than 5% of what scope has to offer.

If any new people are reading this please check my Xite-1 tips. I’ve done most of hard work for you (collecting info from around here etc plus my own) for Xite scope 7 running on xp32bit and win1064bit in the Xite sub forum. 😊 Have FUN
Last edited by Liquid EDGE on Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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valis
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by valis »

I do believe that S|C has intended to fix as much of this as they can, aside from STS and etc.
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

I’m sure they have, just don’t understand why it’s included in installs. I’d love it if they got STS up and running on 64bit though. I understand there’s halion and kontakt etc which seemingly offer more. But I just really liked the sound of the STS, it’s oldskool sampler interface & recording directly into it.
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Peter Drake
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Peter Drake »

Yeah, there's a lot of things not explicitly stated that could be. I had some maddening experiences coming back to Scope after a long time away and had to find tips or recommendations here on the forums to get things squared away.
I also am a fan of the simplicity and integration of STS. I'm about to set up a 32bit machine to get STS and a few things that use .wav files back in operation.
Cautiously optimistic that Holger & Co. have sorted some or all of these issues in 7.1 but I'm not worried about it.
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valis
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by valis »

STS is probably not coming back, if memory serves it's written around the old 32bit frameworks for accessing CD-ROMs that went away long ago. So it would have to be redone, at least to some degree. Of course I can't speak for S|C, just from observing discussions and of course gary's input.

Do you think we could collect the various issues and put them into the FAQ for reference? I know it would benefit me, and we would probably need a table to separate 32bit/64bit Xite & Legacy PCI.
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

So even more reason that STS is just removed from the install.

My Xite tips is that, an attempt to collect all the issues in one place. But ofcourse it’s about Xite as that’s what I own.

Would def make sense to have a one stop place that collects all the issues, fixes and clearly states what doesn’t work/to avoid.
Last edited by Liquid EDGE on Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

Peter Drake wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:52 pm Yeah, there's a lot of things not explicitly stated that could be. I had some maddening experiences coming back to Scope after a long time away and had to find tips or recommendations here on the forums to get things squared away.
I also am a fan of the simplicity and integration of STS. I'm about to set up a 32bit machine to get STS and a few things that use .wav files back in operation.
Cautiously optimistic that Holger & Co. have sorted some or all of these issues in 7.1 but I'm not worried about it.

Yeah, this forum is a life saver, not to mention all the lovely devices that get shared here.

My Xite tips is an attempt to collect all the issues & fixes etc in one place. But of-course it’s done from my point of view and what set up im on/using.

Fingers crossed hey. But like you I’m not too worried about it. Just get rid of it from the install if it’s not fixed/can’t be fixed (especially if it causes blue screen of death!!). And work on a replacement or something.

I still have my 32bit set up, I can easily switch the OS hard drive, one with win xp 32bit and one with win 10 64bit.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Bud Weiser »

valis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:27 pm STS is probably not coming back, if memory serves it's written around the old 32bit frameworks for accessing CD-ROMs that went away long ago. So it would have to be redone, at least to some degree. Of course I can't speak for S|C, just from observing discussions and of course gary's input.
STS should come back,- without the ability to read/convert and load AKAI CDs directly.
It makes no sense ditching a device just only because ASPI (and whatelse) is discontinued.
We already have a lot of (former) AKAI programs/samples in STS format and STS reads/plays SF2 and WAV too.
And beside it´s sound quality, it would keep to be a fully functional SAMPLER too.
I´ve not seen any other virtual sample player sounding so close to the AKAI hardware !
Even Kontakt and other convert, load and play AKAI,- it´s worlds apart soundwise.

Same w/ VDAT.
It might be obsolete for many,- but for me it´s a great tool to use together w/ my old Fostex R-8 reel to reel.
VDAT is great for backup tapes while being busy w/ other tasks using DAW and ASIO.
It´s an advantage to have a recording solution in SCOPE and w/o using ASIO.

:)

Bud
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Bud Weiser »

Liquid EDGE wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:33 am So even more reason that STS is just removed from the install.
I doubt !

Temporary yes,- but it should come back for 64Bit systems and stay in 32Bit system installs.

:)

Bud
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Bud Weiser »

Liquid EDGE wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:58 pm I’d love it if they got STS up and running on 64bit though. I understand there’s halion and kontakt etc which seemingly offer more. But I just really liked the sound of the STS, it’s oldskool sampler interface & recording directly into it.
^^^^^^
THIS

:)

Bud
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Bud Weiser »

valis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:33 pm I do believe that S|C has intended to fix as much of this as they can, aside from STS and etc.
Yes,- but WHEN it comes down to about 3 things only,- SampleOsc, tapedelay and some seq modules,- why deos it need years to fix only these ?

B.t.w.,- I can imagine there would be a way to give devices (STS etc.) using "sample osc" limited access to memory still and even when running in a 64Bit environment,- IF that is the problem.
I´d pretty satisfied when STS samplers would run in 64Bit SCOPE and can access 2GB of RAM for AKAI, SF2 and WAV samples.
It would be a LOT more compared to the hardware.

I guess, no one expects S|C makes something modern and comparable to Kontakt and others out of "STS".

Isn´t it some ZARG devices use "sample osc" too ?

:)

Bud
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

Bud Weiser wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:51 am
Liquid EDGE wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:33 am So even more reason that STS is just removed from the install.
I doubt !

Temporary yes,- but it should come back for 64Bit systems and stay in 32Bit system installs.

:)

Bud
That’s what I mean, tempory removals from installs till it’s fixed or replaced.
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by valis »

Well I was a bit surprised to see Bidule now has the same memory access issues and ASIO pre-scan problems that other apps have been reported to have. I would hazard a guess that the driver issues and sample related devices might have similar issues in their addressing of memory, so perhaps someone can address both.

STS was more than just ASPI iirc, though that’s of course another issue as well. I spent a lot of time with ASPI for old graphics application workflows, and am fairly sure it was I giving updated download links forever. However of this yielded to the civil or fixed of the things above with Akai cd loading removed, who would complain?
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dante
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by dante »

Not just the installers, but the shop should be fixed to align.

Up front in the main shop front should be all the latest and greatest stuff developed on or working on XITE x64 - eg like the DNA and Oceanswift stuff. That stuff is very cool and I never had any issues with.

Then there should be a 'Bargain Basement' - half price or less for stuff requiring legacy runtime environments - e.g. like plugs that only work reliably on 32 bit, Win7 or XP and/or PCI cards. The bargain basement stuff would come without official support at buyers risk (hence the cheap price).
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by yayajohn »

dante wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:25 pm
Then there should be a 'Bargain Basement' - half price or less for stuff requiring legacy runtime environments - e.g. like plugs that only work reliably on 32 bit, Win7 or XP and/or PCI cards. The bargain basement stuff would come without official support at buyers risk (hence the cheap price).
I think that would be up to each 3rd party developer eh?

All Sonic Core plugins work fine on 64bit. (Protone,Prodyssey,Six String, Mod IV)
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by dante »

yayajohn wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:05 pm
dante wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:25 pm
Then there should be a 'Bargain Basement' - half price or less for stuff requiring legacy runtime environments - e.g. like plugs that only work reliably on 32 bit, Win7 or XP and/or PCI cards. The bargain basement stuff would come without official support at buyers risk (hence the cheap price).
I think that would be up to each 3rd party developer eh?

All Sonic Core plugins work fine on 64bit. (Protone,Prodyssey,Six String, Mod IV)
No doubt behind the scenes. I'm looking from a customer perspective, where they expect what they see - what they buy - works.
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valis
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by valis »

Again, we should document as much as we can on the frontend of the site. Not only will it give us a place to point at recurring questions and themes and save some time/energy here, but that will SEO better. Which means not only will people find the information better than random threads on here (which I can/will link to where applicable) but if we eliminate the negative talk and yet leave the focus on the issues themselves, I would warrant it makes it more likely they will be fixed.
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

valis wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:19 am Well I was a bit surprised to see Bidule now has the same memory access issues and ASIO pre-scan problems that other apps have been reported to have. I would hazard a guess that the driver issues and sample related devices might have similar issues in their addressing of memory, so perhaps someone can address both.

STS was more than just ASPI iirc, though that’s of course another issue as well. I spent a lot of time with ASPI for old graphics application workflows, and am fairly sure it was I giving updated download links forever. However of this yielded to the civil or fixed of the things above with Akai cd loading removed, who would complain?
People who want Akai cd loading. 😀

I’d be happy, it’s better than it not working at all in 64bit.
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by Liquid EDGE »

valis wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:07 pm Again, we should document as much as we can on the frontend of the site. Not only will it give us a place to point at recurring questions and themes and save some time/energy here, but that will SEO better. Which means not only will people find the information better than random threads on here (which I can/will link to where applicable) but if we eliminate the negative talk and yet leave the focus on the issues themselves, I would warrant it makes it more likely they will be fixed.
True! 😊
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valis
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Re: Scope installation!

Post by valis »

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the ASIO driver issue with some hosts, the sample osc crash and STS are all related to the same issue in addressing memory improperly. I cannot debug their code from here though, (or perhaps at all). So let's hope that they get enough sales through the new site to help finance that, if it's not done already.

In fact, if we help simplify common issues and attract more users to help, I would bet that would translate into more sales and 'mindshare' for S|C which I think translates into the same thing (at least in modern social media driven parlance).
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