Synth died from the heat (Virus KB, JD800 & JV1000 affected too)

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valis
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Synth died from the heat (Virus KB, JD800 & JV1000 affected too)

Post by valis » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:15 am

My studio A/C couldn't keep up with the heat and in the middle of working yesterday my Virus Kb started making a clicking sound instead of what it was supposed to do. Looked over at the screen and it was stuck in an init cycle showing the OS version info, did a power cycle with a long delay to let it cool down and the LCD panel won't light now, synth won't boot. So... found the repair center in Cali and am about to ship it off. Any suggestions on shipping this puppy long distance? :D

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at0m
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by at0m » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:43 am

As for shipping anything fragile: If it's not too heavy to throw, it will get thrown. So ship in a box that can withstand some shocks, with your synth well suspended in foam/wrap/..

And may your synthie return home quick - and operational :)
more has been done with less

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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:14 am

Indeed! I'll double pack it (box within a box) as well. Just curious if any tricks were out there that I didn't know from shipping other electronics.

Incidentally, it was 106F here today (~41.2C) and when the A/C gave up the ghost (which it did the last few days sadly during the peak of the heat) my studio hit 115F, and I had shut off half the machines. Oh well...

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Marco
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by Marco » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:48 am

:( that's sad.
Scope 7 user since 2017 and Scope user since 1998. :o

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t_tangent
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by t_tangent » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:49 am

Yes sorry to hear that Valis.i haven't been in my studio for a while now due to the recent heatwave here in UK.

Before you send it off for repairs is it worth having a quick look inside the synth to see if it's something you could fix. Maybe look for a blown component on the PSU, or related parts. It might be a simple fix. Worth a quick look I would say rather than risking the shipping and hassle. If you can't find anything then arrange for it to go to the tech. No local electronics repair guys that might be able to have a look, as many of those type jobs any competent electronics tech should be able to help with unless it is something more specific to synth repairs? Whichever way, best of luck.

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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:05 am

Yep, was going to open it up yesterday but didn't have time. I probably could replace a blown cap or two, but if there are failing components I'm the sort that prefers a proper benchtest to insure there aren't other components hitting the point of failure as well. I'll have a look regardless here in a bit and report back, kids are almost out the door.

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Mr Arkadin
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by Mr Arkadin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:36 am

Dunno man, but the heat has set off the 'red glue' problem on my JD-800. The red glue Roland used starts to melt and the key weights fall out. This I can fix. However, there is also red glue internally, so I've had to bring it back from France to UK to open her up and see if there's any internal damage. Thought I had dodged this bullet, but the heat has never been quite like this.

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t_tangent
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by t_tangent » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 am

Yes this heatwave seems to have been pretty much global and I'll bet it has kept the techs quite busy this year. But yeah it's worth a quick look I reckon and hopefully you will find that it's an easy fix.

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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:34 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:36 am
Dunno man, but the heat has set off the 'red glue' problem on my JD-800. The red glue Roland used starts to melt and the key weights fall out. This I can fix. However, there is also red glue internally, so I've had to bring it back from France to UK to open her up and see if there's any internal damage. Thought I had dodged this bullet, but the heat has never been quite like this.
Oh crap, don't remind me of that! My JD-800 is literally under my Virus. Guess I'm opening 2 synths today...

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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:32 pm

Opened the Virus, cleaned all ribbon interconnects and tested all capacitors and components that I'm competent enough to test. If it's an IC, I can't resolve that with the tools/skills I posses. Went ahead & replaced the CR2032 battery while I was in there, I keep a bunch of watch batteries on hand for various gear and small battery powered items so that was simple. Also checked out the PSU on recommendation from our good friend John Bowen and, besides the fact that it's mounted internall and is still basically a wall-wart, it has no exposed information that I was able to determine anything from (after removing all the hot glue that holds it to the case). However it does seem to be sagging on testing, though only a very small amount. However i know the meter I was using didn't provide much of a load so it might be the culprit.


I'm probably going to just bite the bullet & pay for repairs for the Virus (and attend to at least my JD800 as well)

-----------------

Mr Arkadin, now on the subject of the JD800...

To begin with, i looked under the keybed and saw the red glue for the first time seeping around the edges of the keys. The leaking wasn't bad enough to look like the images I've seen of people who have had to clean or replace their keybeds, but it was never visible before at all (check every few months when I do a through cleaning) so I'm pulling up my notes to prepare to deal with this (more on those notes in a minute..). Worse yet, a bit more research turns up that the following Roland keyboards all have this red glue problem: EP-9, JV-50, JV-80, JV-90, JV-1000, XP-80, XP-90, U-20, D-70 & VK-1000, and I have a JV-1000 as well.

The JV-1000 is clearly having the red glue issue, as it sits in a different spot in my studio room. The JD-800, my Virus, my Solaris and my large mixing board are all positioned so that the cold air from the A/C circulates near them. In the past when I saw the Roland notifications I know only half of those models above were documented in the service bulletins i saw around the net, but it's not very surprising. What fun. I'm weighting what it will cost to deal with this now too, as the heat isn't over this summer and the black keys are the ones that are the issue for leaking on the keyboard internals (I didn't open this up as I've got a client workload right now and the Virus took a little while).

So I can't be sure the JD-800 isn't further along with this issue than what I can see on the white keys, and I am fairly sure the JV-1000 is on the edge of needing to be fixed (if it isn't already leaking internally). To make matters worse, where the JV-1000 sits it's exposed to my son (age 2.5) and daughter (age 7) who come in the studio almost every day to bang on the keys a bit. Since that synth is only worth about $300-400, I may just swap it for something newer. The cost for the replacement keyboard is currently around $560 for the JD800, and the JV-1000 has 1 more octave so is likely to be more.

------

So, now on to those notes for the JD-800, in the event that they are of use to Mr Arkadin. Being the organized person I am, I've been following the red glue problem for a while (though learning the JV-1000 has the problem as well seems to have slipped by me until today). Here's the info I've collected to date:

First a thread on Gearslutz that starts off with a great post on what screws are necessary to open the synth: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... ostcount=1

--

Next a great post on Gearslutz discussing the green contact board (contact board assy, part number 22935230 - $183.21 (backordered 4-6 weeks), and there's a newer part # references as well 00784978 - $166.20 (backordered 4-6) ) for the keyboard that often causes issues for keys when it starts to break down, and can be damaged when removing the keyboard to clean the glue (or replace with a new keybed): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... ost8874414

This post has info from 2008 on the old and new part #'s for the keybed and associated cables & connectors, as well as info that you can read in the gearslutz thread above discussing how the modern green PCB takes a bit of work to make it work: http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/for ... ost3471840

This site (Syntaur) has a great selection of parts listed for a variety of keyboard manufacturers, at the top of the JD-800 page you'll see a link to a list of repair centers that they have dealt with as well: https://syntaur.com/roland.html

Roland lists this for their contact info (the parts request form won't work without a registered product): To order parts, or for repair issues, please contact our Parts and Service department at (323) 890-3771. Parts and Service is open Monday through Friday, 8:00am to 4:00pm Pacific Time.

--

This video details someone's repair of the red glue issue AND the green PCB (if memory serves): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OWcU3UvF7c

Flex PCB video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA-kTZZmuok

Here's a webpage from 2006 (I thnk) that documents this fellow's repair including using caustic soda to remove the red glue:
https://synthsandkeyboards.wordpress.co ... nt-page-1/

And another:
http://www.tauntek.com/JD800keybd.htm

--

Here's a page with info on calibrating the IC's for the output that may be of use at some point: http://www.donsolaris.com/?p=579

----------------

Hope that's not too much info :D

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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by dawman » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:33 pm

Good luck Valli.
Heat is definately high out West.
I’ve learned my lesson by using triple barrel 22,000rpm fans.

I had my first failure 3 yearsago in Nashville’s high heat/humidity.
Now I use silent setting for slower speed, but full tilt maximum outdoors and it’s loud as a Hoover Vacuum.
But works well.

I was more worried about my K4 and especially Solaris as it’s black and we had no canopy.
One more on Labor Day weekend after this weeks Hot ass August Night Classic Car festival.
At least there’s canopies, but 99-101 degrees makes me nervous.

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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by yayajohn » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:28 am

You should have stayed in TN Jimmy. It's been in the 80's all week long.....won't last though I have a feeling what's out west will eventually move this way soon. :cry:
Fan under the Xite with the pwr supply right on top of the fan. Not needed? - maybe, but long term maybe buy me a few years. I also have a big fan in the window sucking out the heat which cools the entire room dramatically.
Valis: too bad jhulk isn't around anymore. He was def a synth repair guru. I sent a circuit board to him and he did a fantastic job repairing it.
Hope you get it fixed.
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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:53 am

I'll get it repaired for sure, i actually love to keep my gear well maintained (and other stuff in my life) because it gives me assurance of reliability when it comes to crunch time. Main issue is cost vs time now...

The Rolands are actually more of a concern now that Arkadin gave me cause to look, the JD-800 is well worth saving but going to cost more than the Virus, so that's ok imo. But the JV-1000 is my main controller as it's a 76 key, and that makes it more costly than the JD-800 (and harder as I don't see many people online talking about what they faced reconditioning it like the JD-800). It's not so bad that I would feel wrong about selling it, so I'm currently weighing the cost of repairing that vs. selling and getting a used Kurzweil with 7-8 octaves for about the same cost of repairing this (600 + change for keybed vs. kurz minus the resale value of this...)

Thanks for everyone participating here and listening to my long winded rants.

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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by yayajohn » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:03 am

I can tell from your studio pics you are very thorough! I'd love to have a few more vintage synths in my arsenal but really can't risk buying any since I've no repair skills and no services within driving distance. Of course i'm sure if i paid top dollar at ARMENS I prob wouldn't need to worry about repairs for quite some time.

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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am

I would say that judging by the your studio pic that I put on the main page of the site, you are thorough as well :)

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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by dawman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:55 pm

yayajohn wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:28 am
You should have stayed in TN Jimmy. It's been in the 80's all week long.....won't last though I have a feeling what's out west will eventually move this way soon. :cry:
Fan under the Xite with the pwr supply right on top of the fan. Not needed? - maybe, but long term maybe buy me a few years. I also have a big fan in the window sucking out the heat which cools the entire room dramatically.
Valis: too bad jhulk isn't around anymore. He was def a synth repair guru. I sent a circuit board to him and he did a fantastic job repairing it.
Hope you get it fixed.
My first year there was 108 degrees and Corn was shot from the drought/heat.
I was playing soccer in this beautiful green with junior and chased the ball into this field.
I stepped on a Ground Hornets nest (never knew about them) and one came out to sting me in back of my head.
Big ass Bastard too. Went back to playing without realizing the first Hornet (stinger) is the one that tags you so the other sons of bitches chase you down and sting you more.
So after my first summer there, and months of floods cancelling jobs in STL & Nashville, anything under 100 degrees would be heaven.

Tahoe is my new hang.
Beaches, babes, music, but n ot a Bass or Crappe within 300 miles.
Skinny ass Catfish and Trout.
But pink meat from eating Shrimp Brine, great tasting reptiles...

Cheers

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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by kensuguro » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:31 am

man, this is serious... the unseen byproduct of climate change is.. less keyboards to perform/work with? That would be a quite roundabout way to damage the progress of music! buuut the problem doesn't seem intuitive enough to cause a full on revolution...

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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat

Post by valis » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:12 am

Mr Arkadin, have you looked into repair options yet? I would like to swap notes on repair part #'s if you've gotten that far.

Now that we're below 100F my A/C seems to be keeping up again, and no further red creep has occurred. But I'm going to put all of this on the maintenance list and collect parts as needed until there's time to do this properly.

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Mr Arkadin
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Re: Synth died from the heat (Virus KB, JD800 & JV1000 affected too)

Post by Mr Arkadin » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:13 pm

I've shipped it back to UK, but it's 100 miles from me even in UK (no room for it in London), so when I visit my dad later this month/next month I'll have all the repair documents and will open it up and see what happened inside!

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valis
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Re: Synth died from the heat (Virus KB, JD800 & JV1000 affected too)

Post by valis » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:00 pm

Ok, thanks for the response and good luck with the endeavor!

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