PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Which Scope synths emulates those silky oberheim pads?

Thanks

modular, JB stuff, prodyssey.......

There are several ways to do pads in scope.

djmicron wrote:modular, JB stuff, prodyssey.......

There are several ways to do pads in scope.

(Pr)Odyssey/ARP filters are totally different from Oberheim filters and there were many different ones from simple 24dB lowpass over multi mode state variable to the multi moder filter types running on the CEM 3372 signal processor chip in the Xpander/Matrix-12.

Where´s a Oberheim type filter in JB Zarg stuff ?
Most are Sequential Circuits Prophet oriented, but several different ones like the ones used in Prophet 5 Rev2 and 3.
I doubt WC ProOne offers different ones because the original synth was just only a derivate from Prophet 5,- exactly 1 voice plus few additions like step sequencer.

But I´m interested to know because I still own my last original Oberheim synth, the Xpander XP-1 and use native software,- Sonic Projects OPX-ProII p.ex..

It´s very hard to get the Oberheim sound from other synths.
Don´t know from Modular though because I didn´t have the time to dive deeper into it.
Is there a Oberheim filter in Modular III and/or IV ?

Another signature feature of Oberheim synths is the portamento which in a XPander/Matrix-12 is created by a lag processor you have to assign to the pitch of OSCs and then you have the options of linear, exponential and quantized portamento types.
IMO this is an important feature for Oberheim type pads.

For me , a Oberheim synth device for SCOPE is most wanted because it´d complement the vintage synth palette to perfection.
Minimax, Prodyssey, Profit5, ProTone and Uknow7 are very good sounding emulations and a Oberheim emulation would be ice on the cake for me.
Should offer 12 voice poly regardless of complexity of patch though ... on XITE-1D as well as XITE-1.

Bud

we don't have an oberheim emulation, but we have the modules to make our own patch.

Inside the modular we have lots of filters, we have the flexor package and most of it is unexplored as the rest of the modular package.

SInce the topic is "oberheim pads", not a specific oberheim model, my answer covered the pad argument, so, yes, you can make silky pads with scope, then if you need a 1:1 emulation of some oberheim model, we don't have it, but we have the tools to make some interesting patch.

Then ok, i agree, an oberheim emulation would be a good move for the platform.

djmicron wrote: SInce the topic is "oberheim pads", not a specific oberheim model, my answer covered the pad argument, so, yes, you can make silky pads with scope, then if you need a 1:1 emulation of some oberheim model, we don't have it, but we have the tools to make some interesting patch.

1st,- nothing against you posts,- I personally see it as some kind of constructive discussion,- but some background ...

You can make silky pads w/ almost any analog synth emulation (as well as w/ almost any hardware analog synth itself).
But OP was asking about "Oberheim pads" and I wanted to try specifying what makes a pad a Oberheim pad.
For sure it´s not a ARP filter emulation in Prodyssey as it isn´t a Prophet 5 filter emulation in Profit5 or the Minimax filter.

You might agree on the most important modules being responsible for a synth´s sound characteristics,- the filters and the (slope of) envelopes,- then come the waveforms which when analyzed will look more or less different depending on OSC of synths,- and there are always some unique modifiers you propably don´t find the same in other synths.

I also forgot to mention, all these different Oberheim synths sounded different.
A Oberheim Xpander/Matrix-12 sounds much more polished and thinner than the polysynths based on SEM modules or the OBX p.ex.,- but they also offer much more features than the old ones.

Nonetheless,- you always hear some "magic" of the Oberheim filter architecture and even the filters also changed while "improving", they all have something in common you will recognize always.
Even cheapo Matrix-6 and Matrix-1000 sound like a Oberheim and different from a Moog or whatever competitor of that time.

Now, we both better asked what OP´s imagination is when he says "silky Oberheim pad".

In real world, there isn´t that "Oberheim pad sound" existing except you do it on a specific Oberheim synth and then it also matters which model was/is used.

To my experience, THE Oberheim PAD sound is mostly associated w/ the Oberheim Matrix-12 because of is modulation capabilities and the 2x 6-voice layer feature w/ detune page.
You only get it from the Xpander when using workarounds which eat your preset memory space,- or two Xpanders.
With both synths, the Multi-Patch Mode is essential and you won´t get these sounds in single patch mode.
You won´t get these pads from a OBXa or OB-8 and I can say this because I also owned a OB-8 and a Matrix-1000.

I doubt there´s anything close to a Oberheim Xpander/Matrix-12 voice in SCOPE and if it were it possibly were a DSP killer too,- at least when maxing polyphony up to 12 voices.

Modules:
Flexor is monophonic only.
I, by some reasons, don´t call a monophonic patch a pad.

Anyway,- I just noticed jhulk came up w/ some kind of Oberheim Four-Voice FVS-1 filter for BCM,- so there´s hope.

djmicron wrote: Then ok, i agree, an oberheim emulation would be a good move for the platform.

Now we´re talking,- which to prefer ?

I´d say a Oberheim SEM emulation would be great and then we´d be able to group 4-8 of these in a shell which itself offers the output-pan, step sequencer and keyboard assignment modules as well as all the MIDI and a general filter cutoff and tuning pot.
As a result you could decide for a 2-, 4-, 6 or 8-voice or anything in between,- architecture wise.

The single Oberheim SEM isn´t that complex in regards of modulation path, it´s envelope times aren´t very long and there aren´t too many modifiers in the ballpark, but it has the classic Oberheim filter sound offering seamless sweepable LP / BP / HP and Notch modes.
And even it came w/ the alternative patch points option, it had a fixed wired architecture too.

Could be we won´t run into interconnection/communication issues between DSPs on XITE like we do w/ JB ZARG Solaris p.ex..
Jhulk seems to have the filter already, so it should be possible to create the SEM emulation where one of these devices fits less than 1 DSP and possibly you´d get a 8-Voice on 4 DSPs,- incl. "the shell".

With Modular (as the shell) I have the problem, each patch is a device you load in SCOPE and when you want a different sound you have to load another Modular device after removing the old one from the environment.

Instead, I imagine a shell enabling patch starage and recall for individual SEM modules being loaded in the shell and change patches for individual modules independently as also for "the shell" over MIDI, so we´d talk about master patches for the shell which include single patches for the SEM modules.
Means,-

a)
Play it as a single instrument and change master patches over MIDI on a single MIDI channel, the master patch including up to 8 individual patches for each SEM.
b)
Play it as individual synths, each SEM on a different MIDI channel or sub devisions of SEM module groups on dedicated MIDI channels.

I´m not into SDK,- but is that possible to create at all for the SCOPE platform ?

Bud

One word: BCModular. Check the CLM modules, they can load patches on command.

djmicron wrote:
Then ok, i agree, an oberheim emulation would be a good move for the platform.

Really - what this platform needs is yet another analogue emulation sounding slightly different from the rest of "all" the big synth emulations already on the platform?


But back to OP's question. It will be interesting to see how close you can get with one of the Scope synth:

Here's a video with the recipe for a well known Oberheim sound - the blade runner theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fne0oIEv-WI


And here's another with a recipe for a well known Billy Idol sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZxErk7G2XA


More interesting synth patch toturial here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IEgVLI ... _tPe-ZVXDV

petal wrote: Here's a video with the recipe for a well known Oberheim sound - the blade runner theme.

The Blade Runner Theme is originally a Yamaha CS80 patch and the CS80 is a completely different filter and synth architecture compared to ANY Oberheim synth.

John Bowen Solaris competes w/ that architecture,- it has 4 identical signal flow channnels so you can mimik the CS80 architecture using 2 of these.
Up to now it misses the accurate CS80 filter though.

petal wrote: And here's another with a recipe for a well known Billy Idol sound:

OBXa,- Oberheim´s 1st synth using Curtis CEM ICs ...
Basicly you might get it w/ the Profit 5 when talking stock SCOPE synths,- but w/ the exception there´s no 12dB LP filter in Profit 5, only a 24dB LPF.

Zarg Prowave might be better because it has several filter options.

Best would be Zarg Solaris when getting enough polyphony out of it on XITE boxes,- but that seems to be a dream forever.

Bud

jksuperstar wrote:One word: BCModular. Check the CLM modules, they can load patches on command.

thx, cool !
But up to now, not enough time to learn modular in depth.

Bud

petal wrote: Really - what this platform needs is yet another analogue emulation sounding slightly different from the rest of "all" the big synth emulations already on the platform?

Slightly different ... hmmm ... seriously ?

If we had a Oberheim SEM based polyphonic synth in the ballpark of SCOPE, that would be the monster synth all wanted just only because is not only a in polyphony variable synth but also a polytimbral one where each voice had it´s own patch and different keyboard assignment controlled how these setups played.
That synth would be miles beyond every other vintage synth emulation in SCOPE.

Up to now we don´t have any multitimbral or polytimbral instrument in SCOPE at all.

Anyway, I´d appreciate to get such thing as a ready to play device saving time by avoiding programming complex modular patches w/ lack of knowledge,- others prefer dynamics and whatelse devices.
You don´t need many synths and I, as a keyboardist, I don´t need 50 different compressors and EQs or delays and reverbs p.ex. ...
To each his own.

I´m out of the discussion now,- all said.

happy programming

Bud

Bud Weiser wrote:

petal wrote: Here's a video with the recipe for a well known Oberheim sound - the blade runner theme.

The Blade Runner Theme is originally a Yamaha CS80 patch and the CS80 is a completely different filter and synth architecture compared to ANY Oberheim synth.

Bud

Ahh well - To be honest I wasn't sure, but the result in the video sounds pretty damn close in my ear

Jam & Spoon - Stella

The pads were done on an Xpander I believe.

@ Bud Weiser, i have not taken it personal, it was a little bit late here where i live, so my post has been cut to look angry, sorry for that.

Flexor is not mono, it has been developed on the pci boards, so each module must be on the same dsp and on the xite there is more power.

I know the matrix 12 is an analog beast, i think most of the modulation routing is possible on scope, 12 voices, it depends on how the circuit is organized, but don't think that on a matrix 12 every pad is made on 12 voices, it is a modular synth in my opinion, so returning to the topic, we can make something good with scope, if we know what we want to do.

Prodyssey has a preset named Rich Pads.
Sounds like an OBX, even mimics the analog drift by using slight Pitch Modulation on an envelope.

my sem emulation and the saturn does

io have a matrix 12 and usually unless you are using sync for all 12 voices

most sets just use one voice and you program several so that they layer

but the biggest problem is that all lfo envelopes and modulation is done by the 2 6809e 8bit processors and this makes them slow they are not snappy and you have to rember all the modulations as if you change a preset as in voice settings and not the matrix it can be a real pain to find whats modulating what

the keyboard was crap i changed mine for a kurzweil k2000 keybed fatar one

the audio outs expansion is good as then you can treat each voice its great for creating bass pad presets where you can have a semi fast bass with swirling pads

it uses a dual oscillator which is an infereoir chip to the single cem oscillators as used in the obx the filter was also a cheaper version than the cem3320 but they used pole mixing and the additional vca for resonance which made it a very complex filter

the matrix6/1000 uses a digital waveshaping osc and because it a synth on a chip it does not have enough vca for the pole mixing and to run external audio you have to run it through the first pole so only 18db filter but out of the oscillator waveshapes the matrix6/1000 has the most

the matrix 12 dual osc basic oscillator is based on the cem3340 waveshapes which is emulated on the modular 4 oscillators and i got sharc to create is in bcmodular

its basically a ramp and tri oscillator with a comparator on the tri to create the pwm/square wave oscillator it has hard sync

you need 2 of these oscillators in modular as the oscillator pair per voice now if you want the true oberhiem filter sound then you need a 2pole svf filter with crossfade lowpass notch hipass and a switch from that to bandpass it also has a diode ring in the feedback

i did a filter design like this in my morphing filter which gets you this type of sound for a matrix 12 sound which sounds much thinner than the obx which uses cem oscillators and cem envelopes and vca but used the sem filter there are known for the classic brass pad sound

by using long envelopes and saw and a pwm modulation mixed waveforms you should be able to get the oberhiem sound

I remember this one:
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php ... &hilit=OBX

you can copy/paste the path shown in the first line to download the file

It was an attempt to get a bit of the Oberheim sound to us...

Jimmy liked it

jhulk wrote:i did a filter design like this in my morphing filter which gets you this type of sound for a matrix 12 sound which sounds much thinner than the obx which uses cem oscillators and cem envelopes and vca but used the sem filter there are known for the classic brass pad sound

by using long envelopes and saw and a pwm modulation mixed waveforms you should be able to get the oberhiem sound

Could you - in Modular, emulate the diode clipping that adds to the 3rd and to a lesser extent the other odd harmonics ?

yes you can use a halfwave rectifier or full wave just how a diode behaves

i uploaded the filter design to the bcmodular designing filters where you can see the diode ring which is made up of both full wave and half wave this adds a ringing effect and really adds scream to the resonance with out dropping the level like ladder does

the ms20 does this also but also has a 1pole hipass filter in series with a lowpass filter

you can also use a tube emulation

with a mixer in the resonant path and use a crossfade mixer then have the resonance
go to one side of the crossfade mixer ad the tube and also have a control on the bias this way you can control the symmetry and the amount of distortion in return signal.

as for the oscillators the sem is very basic saw and pwm there is a mixer but it uses negative log so that when set in middle there is no sound then when going left you attenuate the saw and when going write you attenuate the pulse

the modulations are also the same env/lfo and the 3rd mixer is used for external sound/noise but the mixersection is in the filter saw pulse osc one saw pulse osc 2 an noise/external

what was nice was when using it poly because each voice was a sem pair you then had variation between sems this gave very expressiveness to the difference in slight tune and filter settings

to accomplish this on scope you have to use a keyboard splitter so that it only trigers that set of voices but all on the same midi chanel you can then set them to 2 voices poly each and have them over a range of 6 notes