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Is there really anything with a better sound than Mackie 8 Bus/Onyx/VLZ Pro, that is under $2000 for 32 channels?

At the moment I am looking at a Yamaha MG32 but can't decide

Are you going to use all those physical knobs, buttons and faders, or are you just looking for 32 analog gain stages for your Scope environment?

yes.

that board is a very nice consumer piece of crap. it's very functional, it sounds pretty good, but it's a bic lighter and it's not great, it's only very good.

if you want something great, you can have it, but you'll need to be a bit of an engineer. get a broadcast or recording board from the late 80's or 90's. such a board might need minor maintanence or even an op amp or cap or two, but a board that was $40,000 in 1988 can be found within your budget today. the mic pres eqs and build quality are light years beyond the Mackie. those boards were made to be fixed, they were expected to last a lifetime. a Tac or Soundcraft or Sound Workshop or even a Ramsa desk will smoke a newer Mackie.

of course, Mackie was putting out ads when their original 8 bus was introduced that had an "engineer" saying "i work on SSLs all day long and my Mackiie 8 Bus sounds as good or better than any SSL i've ever used". if you believe that, buy the Mackie....

Mackie was never the best product. Mackie was the first CHEAP board that sounded pretty good and had a reasonably low noise floor. Mackie took over the market from many superior products because hobbyists spend more money than anyone and money is the main concern. Mackie used cheap constriuction methods like putting everything on one pc board. good desks have individual boards for each channel so that in a professional situation if a channel dies, you can just remove the channel from the chassis and repair it while the desk still operates. using one pc board makes automated construction easier, but if something breaks, it starts getting cheaper to just get a new board than to rebuild the old one because repair labor on such a desk is so intensive and expensive compared to the cost of the console itself. other manufacturers rushed to make cheaper products the way Mackie did and then died. in the end, the cheap crappy board became the "best" board on the market. Mackie has lowered the bar.

would i use the Mackie? of course! it's not BAD, it's just not as nice as a vintage Allen Heath or Soundcraft or Tac or Amek.

Immanuel wrote:Are you going to use all those physical knobs, buttons and faders, or are you just looking for 32 analog gain stages for your Scope environment?

Yes. I want to stay completely in analog (EQ, Line Ins, FX, Summing). Using analog synths only.

garyb wrote:yes.

that board is a very nice consumer piece of crap. it's very functional, it sounds pretty good, but it's a bic lighter and it's not great, it's only very good.

if you want something great, you can have it, but you'll need to be a bit of an engineer. get a broadcast or recording board from the late 80's or 90's. such a board might need minor maintanence or even an op amp or cap or two, but a board that was $40,000 in 1988 can be found within your budget today. the mic pres eqs and build quality are light years beyond the Mackie. those boards were made to be fixed, they were expected to last a lifetime. a Tac or Soundcraft or Sound Workshop or even a Ramsa desk will smoke a newer Mackie.

of course, Mackie was putting out ads when their original 8 bus was introduced that had an "engineer" saying "i work on SSLs all day long and my Mackiie 8 Bus sounds as good or better than any SSL i've ever used". if you believe that, buy the Mackie....

Mackie was never the best product. Mackie was the first CHEAP board that sounded pretty good and had a reasonably low noise floor. Mackie took over the market from many superior products because hobbyists spend more money than anyone and money is the main concern. Mackie used cheap constriuction methods like putting everything on one pc board. good desks have individual boards for each channel so that in a professional situation if a channel dies, you can just remove the channel from the chassis and repair it while the desk still operates. using one pc board makes automated construction easier, but if something breaks, it starts getting cheaper to just get a new board than to rebuild the old one because repair labor on such a desk is so intensive and expensive compared to the cost of the console itself. other manufacturers rushed to make cheaper products the way Mackie did and then died. in the end, the cheap crappy board became the "best" board on the market. Mackie has lowered the bar.

would i use the Mackie? of course! it's not BAD, it's just not as nice as a vintage Allen Heath or Soundcraft or Tac or Amek.

It's a good board for live bands, if even. I changed my view on the Mackie 8 Bus completely and will pawn it at Guitar Center one of these days. Believe it or not, I bought it and never recorded anything through it...that's how enthusiastic I was about its sound. It's really a crappy grainy sound. All the frequencies are there but it's sooo gray sounding and lifeless.

I also need a console/mixer that will not need servicing every year. Once in 5 years is ok. So those old goodies are no use to me, even though they sound the best. I recently heard a Studiomaster Mixdown, and that thing is warmer than a Midas.

Midas is probably the best option right now, but I just need something that's better than Mackie but not as boutique as Midas. Later I will upgrade to Midas.

So that Yamaha MG32 seems like the only option...and a bunch of reviews say it smokes the Mackie and sounds as good as board that cost more. The same thing I heard about Mackie 8 bus when I started researching.

I will look into the ones you mentioned and see if there's anything refurbished.

Midas is now part of Behringer. That may - or may not - compromise quality. I see that Behringer now sells a 8 channel converter with "Midas preamps".

Immanuel wrote:Midas is now part of Behringer. That may - or may not - compromise quality. I see that Behringer now sells a 8 channel converter with "Midas preamps".

I spoke to Midas Tech Support and the guy told me Behringer has nothing to do with Midas stuff, they only have access to Midas technology. He even went as far as to say that the stuff made in China is as good as the UK stuff. Told me they have their own private assembly line in China.

The only other thing I could think of now is a Soundcraft Ghost.

I saw a great Trident board here that was modded and used some new ouputs chip(s), the guy brings it to the gigs for live recordings into old ProTools hardware but the mix I heard was impressive, and he's a spectacular FOH to boot.
Bit he had 1500 USD tied into his board and it 24 x 8 x 4.