PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

hi guys,

I love my new iMac, but of course it has no PCI slots for my PULSAR1 & PULSAR2 cards.
Thinking of looking around for a used Mac Tower, maybe 3 or 4 years old, and finally dump this old windows XP headache.

Mac Users: can I get some opinions? I'm not needing a super-powerful machine. I typically multi-track 6 to 8 midi tracks, combined with a few 44.1K audio tracks.

• since I'm using Scope 4.5 for PC, would I be allowed to "cross-grade" to a Mac version of the scope software?
• will Scope systems run on POWER-PC Mac's and Intel Mac's?
• any recommendations on Mac configurations I should look for?
• any particular Mac OS versions that perform OK with Scope/Pulsar? Any I should avoid?
• are the mac system drives generally fast enough for audio work?

thanks for any suggestions or advice...

Gary

scope doesnt work with mac (yet)
-well it used to in the old days.. but you have to use some version of tiger then..

oops! yikes!
i guess i won't throw away my PC quite yet then!
reading other threads, looks like G4 / OS 9 are the only models with software-hardware capability for SFP.

i will await developments with Soniccore ...

thanks,

gary

there are no advantages to a mac, other than it's a great machine.
a pc made of good parts is the same quality and works as well and does the same work.

Mac's have a better sound quality though.
This can be verified in various scientific threads of nullification at KVR and other forums where guys with no gear defend their free VST's...

from one Gary to Another ... "great machine" works for me!

I've been enslaved to the PC world since MS-DOS days; some of you weren't even born then. During the last decade of my life, I've migrated somewhat to the intuitive, right-hand side of my brain, which happens to have fallen in love with my new iMac. Simply put, I've "done my time" in the PC world, and the Mac World, in all its colors, richness and simplicity, speaks Buckets to me.

'nuff said.

on to the Music Of The Moment ...

Gary

osx is even a pc operating system. if apple didn't forbid it with a special dongle chip, osx would run on any pc.

yeah. the 'secrets' that lie behind the odd pathways that Gates & Jobs have taken. Back in the 90's I was actually an Amiga buff. To me, the Amiga had even more promise than the Mac - at least at that time - but the whole Commodore company was blown by pathological management. Oh, my Video Toaster! It was actually my first venture into the MIDI world as well. *sob* [these scars never heal ...]

That you don't have to deal with irq's on a mac is a big enough reason for me to go Mac!
If scope and certain vst plugins I use alot was available for Mac, I would switch ASAP!
I have a MacBook with dualboot and win 7 is significantly slower when booting/opening programs etc.

I used to be a pc buff as well - went on board from dos/win 3.1.
Later build a hackintosh and was very impressed and then got the MacBook from work.

To me it's to different mindsets: if you want to play computergames, want to play around with options/settings and use your computer for experimental stuff use a pc! It's alot cheaper and very "open source" like. It is more unstable but more hack friendly.

Mac: expensive and very closed regarding hardware etc. It is VERY stable and external hardware works almost always.

So: for work : Mac
For fun: pc

I know what I am doing regarding pc settings etc and put together my first pc when I was 14 - I have always loved tinkering but as I workhorse I find Mac a more stable system (but very expensive)

Happy 30 Birthday PC ! tadaa...

you have to worry about irqs on a mac. it just doesn't work if there's a problem. you won't be disabling things.

look pc, do it yourself. for an engineer, which is what runs a studio, this is ideal.
mac, it's all prepackaged. take it or leave it. luckily, the package is great. your options are the ones that apple approves of, however. and you pay up to three times the money for the privilege.

since both have excellent software, it's really down to how much money you have, what you want to spend the money on and what you want to do. in fact, the only thing about a mac that sucks balls is that there's no Scope. still, i don't want to hear any mac nonsense. they are the EXACT same thing as a pc, just preconfigured and more expensive and with a more messed up(under the hood), anti user(under the hood) interface. also, all of the things that make the mac so fun are things that should never run on an audio machine, because they eat clock cycles and memory. win7 can have that magical interface too, but i turn it off. i prefer my resources be left for my audio apps.

all that said, i have no problem with using macs, that's for sure. i don't care about the computer, though. i care about a music production machine and that is heavily involved with dsps, and analog gear. the computer is just a dsp house and the controller for the multitrack. i love the music, not the machine.

just thought i'd rant for the fun of it....

well, for the sake of ranting (no, not me this time...)
it's a bit overgeneralizing

show me a current iMac-like PC that's as reliable, silent and good looking for less cash than Apple charges.
those boxes ARE affordable

while a Mac Pro reads like a huge rip-off if seen it on a web page or in an ad... in physical shape it's what the name suggests: professional in the sense of time versus money.
Service is a no-tools-plug-and-play job.
A drive is swapped in a few seconds, but protected from theft as still inside the case.
The latter with a well thoughtout airflow scheme.
I know those 1/3rd price boxes from my local supplier...
and the amount of time he needs to configure both hardware and software.

OSX is not exactly my favourite OS, but they did a tremendous job in hiding practically all that unix-bla stuff from the ordinary user. This will save you significant amounts of time.
It's not just about eye candy...
try shifting your application folder from one Windoze to another...

Apple sells an OSX server preconfigured for small business use for about one grand.
It will cover most of the typical communication stuff in it's domain and is up and running when M$ SBS is still loading it's updates from the internet.
M$ sells a miniature fortune-500 company setup to all those < 20 system offices, requiring a full corporate setup.
Now, who's ripping off people ?
Even if they give you the server PC for free, you'll pay for licenses (not too short...), but most of all TIME.
Afaik there is no easy custom choice of services ... hence a lot of time is wasted and mantainance is spoilt from day one on.
You WILL be paying on such a setup continously (it's their business scheme).

Of course that doesn't affect most of us musos in a more or less private environment only to a small degree.
But we're a niche anyway. In a general context the Apple-aka-expensive diss has never been true - imo and backed by years of experience in sales and support.

cheers, Tom

i can build a computer with the same spec as a top of the line mac for less than $1200 including the os. it takes no time to swap drives or whatever depending on choice of case. it is as professional as needed.

that doesn't mean the imac is a bad value.

i will never say that the mac is a bad choice or a bad product, though. they are just fucking computers.

yeah, the top of the line boxes are (probably) the omnipresent PC 'power-fraud', charging fifty for ten
but it made me curious and I ended with an average Joe's shopping list of roughly 1k Euro, excluding OS and case (no idea where to look) for an entry Mac Pro equivalent.
A Lenovo Thinkstation S20 is almost in the same range as the Mac, but less cute
btw Apple offers these features for 5 years now...
I'm probably ranting because I'm facing just another PC relocation - wtf, I hate it...

cheers, Tom

First, to the OP, I suggest you invest in an RME card with ADAT and run it alongside your Scope PC. I do this with a Mac Pro and an older Xeon running my Scope cards. Best of both worlds...

garyb wrote:osx is even a pc operating system. if apple didn't forbid it with a special dongle chip, osx would run on any pc.

TPM module was never included in any shipping macs, only intitial P4 era dev machines...

DSMOS is the driver that is responsible for 'verifying' a legit mac, and all it does is poll the EFI firmware for the SMC build info and a few other stats.

Also it's a bit difficult to compare Mac prices to PC prices as:

1) macs have no real 'normal PC' style build. The single cpu socket Mac Pros are still well above the pricepoint of a self-built (or mainstream company built) midtower and using Xeon chips, motherboards, ram and underpowered gpu's.

2) the PC market's pricing starts out typically on par or higher than Apple's if you're comparing HP/Dell Xeons to a Mac Pro at initial launch of a new Xeon line, or comparing the 'all in one' style units from HP & Dell etc (they do exist) that fit the iMac form factor, at the launch of a new cpu platform (like the Sandybridge launch). However over time the PC components will fall in price dramatically while the 'new' mac stays at roughly the same pricepoint (new) until the next model is launched. Of course reselling a used Mac is much easier (and gets much more of a return) than a used PC as well, so the main thing to note is that even when you match form factors (all-in-one, laptop, workstation Xeons etc) the markets are still not 100% comparable

3) Your average Mac user either wants a machine they don't have to fuss with at all (making self-build comparisons moot) or a machine that works for a given application that may or may not even exist on Windows. Especially the stuff Apple has brought in-house: Logic Studio, Final Cut Studio/X, Motion...if you want to use one of these (even though the WIndows alternatives are just as capable) then you have no real choice unless...

Hackintoshes do exists where you can take the matching hardware (or close enough) and fiddle around until OSX works (or follow an 'easy' guide where someone else has done all the work) but support is only for those comfortable with building their own PC's and supporting windows themselves to begin with. And if you follow in the steps of someone else building, your updates tend to end when that person loses interest.

i never have disliked macs. i want a Scope OSX version.
i'm not in love with the things either, and that includes pcs.
i do like what can be done with a computer, but i'm not married to one or t'other.

i definitely don't believe the hype. except for the applications themselves, they're both just computers. as you said Valis, if you wanna run Final Cut, you must run Mac. if you wanna run Scope, it's a pc right now. if you wanna run Logic, then an RME card with ADAT connected to a pc running Scope might be worth the effort. or you could just move to another sequencer. it's not that big of a deal, there'll be one you can get along with as there are so many. i never wanted to leave Logic when they left me. Cubase has been great, though. others hate Cubase. there's no absolutely correct answer. i guess productivity is one measure. in this way, there is no difference between the two choices(like political parties, or something).

i would think that Scope is that useful, to be worth the discussion.

The only part that was directed specifically at you btw, was the bit about the TPM module.

Nothing wrong with Cubase, Reaper, X-1 or even Presonus Studio One, if it suits your needs/workflow use it. I use Logic on Mac connected to Scope in my 'PC' because I like both. I've got an older license of Cubase on my WIn7 machine, Studio One Artists bought under a special in case I ever want to upgrade that, Ableton 8.2.x on both Mac & PC, Bidule on both...etc. And sure...personally I can find my way around a Mac, PC, HP, SGI or whatever (and have over the years). So I'm just comfortable using whatever tool I have handy that best suits the job @ hand.

I can appreciate the build quality of a Mac Pro even if I dislike the initial buy-in cost. Applecare's options are at least on par with the companies that HP & Dell will hire come fix your stuff for you, and if you prefer to fix it yourself you can research what to do to avoid voiding your warranty for most options... I just finished adding a new socket771 backplate to my Lian Li G70 case (modified with larger intake/exhaust holes & grills/filters) so that I could upgrade the OEM Xeon heatsink/fans to some 3u 90mm fan heatpipe jobs and step my cpu's & ram up to e5462's @ 1600mhz fsb from the e5430 @ 1333 that I've been running for a few years....bumped the PSU up to 950W because the 750W unit I've run for several years was starting to cause problems on boot...hopefully this will allow me to wait until Ivy Bridge to build again (SandyBridge-e coming next for Xeons/LGA-2011 but Ivy is the next REAL step imo).

Anyhow I digress

nothing wrong with the quality of the product....i like well made things, too.