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Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:21 am
by grappa
Following this weeks fantastic Synth School lesson I am having a play with syncing mod to Reaper - we've been building delay devices and I'd like to get a grip with synchronising LFO's to my host so that I can mess up the delay lines in sync and try and replicate some of the wierd shit Assaf was getting out!
I'm going the 'simple' async route to start with and have reviewed the tutorial sequencer patch at CWMod (thanks Roy!) so that I can get a feel for how it's all connected.
I've set reaper to output clock data into Scope and if I monitor I can see a start and then F8 midi tempo messages so I think I've got that right.
If I connect the midi clock to MVC and then set external my BPM readings change when I start Reaper however I am not understanding what I am seeing. For example if I set Reaper to 120bpm the midi clock module changes to different values (not always the same even though reaper is the same) and not just 480|00 but strange things like 472|79.
Can anyone explain what is happening and if I am doing something stupid!
Si
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:32 am
by roy thinnes
um, I think you mean "If I connect the midi clock to MidiIn of modular"
some kind of midi feedback in Scope?
here with Able, bpm jumps between 119 and 121, but that is normal.
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:55 am
by grappa
Thanks for the reply.
I enclose a screen grab of the patch - I have indeed got midi (with timecode) coming into Mod and if I hit play in Reaper stuff happens (excuse the patch but I was just goofin with the modules to see what happened).
Whats strange (to me) is that my BPM in Reaper is 120 - if you look at the midi clock in Mod its showing 480|57!
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:14 pm
by maky325
Can you try with some other application? FL Studio or Cubase or something else. Midi jitter is known to happen as roy pointed out but not that much like in your case.
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:26 pm
by roy thinnes
good idea mpodrug. in any case, I'm sure that Scope & Modular cannot be blamed
but anyway, what's the advantage to use external sync? timing will be worse - even if it works. TempoDelay will produce crackles if tempo is changed, etc.
btw, when you connect a midi monitor module, or the MVC cwm, does it show "Timing clock" as shown below?
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:57 pm
by grappa
Thanks guys - I do appreciate the help.
Midi monitor in Scope indicates timecode (F8) and in Modular as 'Timing Clock'
I've built the patch indicated on the CWM site and it works a treat - despite the strange numbers appearing in the midi clock the sequencer seems to lock onto Reaper fine.
but anyway, what's the advantage to use external sync? timing will be worse - even if it works.
- Is there another way of getting audio recorded in Reaper to synchronise to sequencer patterns/LFO's/Env's in Modular?
TempoDelay will produce crackles if tempo is changed, etc. - It's very early days for me with Modular - I appreciate the heads up. Making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn imho and learning Mod is like riding a bike - the more you practise, the better you get - you've gotta be prepared to fall off a few times on the journey though
Si
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 pm
by at0m
grappa,
Common practice on Scope would be to set each device's clock to 'internal', and set BPM of the device's MIDI clock the same as the native sequencer. Delay effects wouldn't notice, since they delay the audio as it comes in. For LFO's to be sync, FreqDivider like you used, from MIDI Clock module, sets the LFO to the same rate. For more fine control, you can retrigger the LFO using a dedicated note which is separated from the synth driving notes by a KeySplitter, for example use C6 or C1 or another out-of-range MIDI note, a note you wouldn't use to play the synth.
Using FleXoR's sequencing, synchronization can be achieved by a retriggered Ramp, which can be used to drive sequencers and shaped for LFO's: Ramp Divider creates harmonics of the original slower Ramp, or Saw2TriSin turns the Ramp into triangle or sine waveshapes.
My personal hotty is, instead of retriggering the Ramp, to record a very slow Ramp (8, 16, 32 or even 64 measures!) to a dedicated track and sending that 'master' Ramp to the different patches in the Scope Project. This makes sample-tight synchronization of all modulation effects and sequencers!
Nothing new :>
at0m.
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:27 am
by grappa
The legend that is...at0m
Thanks for the post - having read the thread and looked at the reponses of course you guys are right. I needen't bother actually syncing to the midi clock output of Reaper in my case as I am not actually changing tempo and hence everything we stay in sync - doh. Sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees!
The use of a split and dedicated midi note for controlled syncing is a definate keeper and once again makes me thankful for Scope, Z and you guys for sharing of this stuff.
As for Flexor - I'm itching to get the wallet out and despite Assaf telling me to wait until I've got more of a handle on the base modular stuff I can see it aint gonna be long before I can resist no more
Laterz..
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:21 pm
by tjsound
I understand how to do it for SEQ modules ...but how to synchronize ramp (from DAW) with modular for tempo delay?
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:04 am
by tjsound
Why is this happening?
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:22 pm
by Berny Shoes
at0m wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 pm
grappa,
Common practice on Scope would be to set each device's clock to 'internal', and set BPM of the device's MIDI clock the same as the native sequencer. Delay effects wouldn't notice, since they delay the audio as it comes in. For LFO's to be sync, FreqDivider like you used, from MIDI Clock module, sets the LFO to the same rate. For more fine control, you can retrigger the LFO using a dedicated note which is separated from the synth driving notes by a KeySplitter, for example use C6 or C1 or another out-of-range MIDI note, a note you wouldn't use to play the synth.
Using FleXoR's sequencing, synchronization can be achieved by a retriggered Ramp, which can be used to drive sequencers and shaped for LFO's: Ramp Divider creates harmonics of the original slower Ramp, or Saw2TriSin turns the Ramp into triangle or sine waveshapes.
My personal hotty is, instead of retriggering the Ramp, to record a very slow Ramp (8, 16, 32 or even 64 measures!) to a dedicated track and sending that 'master' Ramp to the different patches in the Scope Project. This makes sample-tight synchronization of all modulation effects and sequencers!
Nothing new :>
at0m.
Updated link ->
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27160
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:29 pm
by valis
Above is the ideal workflow.
tjsound wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:04 am
Why is this happening?
Midi events have a length that isn't evenly divisible into every bpm. In the very old days, we used to set bpm according to the midi word length, what you're seeing is quantizing in action to midi frame boundaries.
Re: Syncing Modular to sequencer
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:14 am
by Spielraum
tjsound wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:04 am
Why is this happening?
the receiver does not know the tempo, he follows the clockpulse and tries constantly to readjust.
this is completely normal