Hi All,
I have a Creamware (yes, I'm old ) Pulsar 2 board plugged into an A16 Ultra all running Scope 4.0 and I'm now really getting into Ableton running on the Windows XP SP2 box this is all connected to.
However, I'm experiencing audio glitches during playback/recording.
I don't have any such problems on my MacBookPro running Ableton using an RME Fireface 400 so I'm guessing it might be the Pulsar and Scope that's the issue.
How do I go about fixing this problem?
cheers,
Chris
Sound Glitches with Ableton
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
gee, there are SO many things that can cause that. some might be caused by the card, some not. regardless, Live and Scope are used together on xp by a good number of users.
what drivers are you using?
is there anything sharing an irq with the Scope card?
are you using a number of vsts and/or vstis?
what does the computer actually have for hardware?
there's no way to answer the question as you posed it. if the computer is set up properly, these problems are very unlikely. first the cause of the problem must be sussed.
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Use the DPC Latency Checker to see if some driver causes nasty stalls on hte system bus (cheap onboard/Marvell LAN and wireless chipsets do for instance, as do some cheap firewire & RAID chipsets). That page lists most of what you'd need to know to troubleshoot using that tool.
If you still have an AGP based system you might try using Doubledawg to reduce your graphics card's PCI latency. Alternatively you might use a tool that can inspect the PCI latency setting of all the devices in the system, or try to adjust the 'default' as defined in your BIOS (nasty drivers that use high settings will still override the BIOS default and cause issues).
Check in your device manager and see if Scope is listed as obviously sharing with anything. In most cases this is the cause of issues. The very simplest way to resolve this is to disable everything in the BIOS you don't need. Some motherboard makers are actually nice enough to list PCI slot sharing in your motherboard manual too, so check that as well.
After disabling devices, do a reset in your BIOS on the ESCD (sometimes called "Reset Configuration Data"). Your BIOS saves ACPI mappings in the ESCD and passes them off to Windows on each boot, so things don't wind up shuffling around each boot causing needles device driver reloads. If you do manually reset this, you could potentially have several devices shift around and see driver prompts necessitating a reboot on first load of windows (after ESCD reset).
If that doesn't work you may have PCI slot sharing issues (shared with onboard devices or other PCI slots). The simplest fix for ACPI issues is just to disable it, but I personally don't ever need to nor do I recommend that anymore (especially with a modern multicore machine). Next step up (better than disabling ACPI but time consuming) is to manually try the Scope card in different slots until you get a slot that it seems to work well in. This is a bit of a shot in the dark and I dislike it since computers are not really that 'fuzzy', and you never really discover the cause of the issue so you may have problems again later.
Since you're using ACPI you may not be able to 'see' all the address sharing that's going on, IRQs are remapped by the APIC controller. I use my BIOS POST screen (you have to be quick these days to hit pause/break in time to see the IRQ listing) or a realtime linux kernel LiveCD (realtime linux doesn't use ACPI) to map out non-APIC allocated IRQ's. That lets me see what's sharing addressing lines before things start being remapped all over the place. Even though technically APIC allocates 'real' IRQs supported just fine by modern hardware, I've found that DSP cards (Scope, Powercore, UAD) and other devices that are particularly sensitive are the happiest if I find a PCI slot that's unshared or shared with the least troublesome devices when only 16 IRQs are in use. When I do that, then boot back into Windows even if the APIC 'steers' them to something that appears to be bad, things usually work much better. Such is the magic & mystery of "ACPI", something you could search and probably find hundreds of pages on here.
If you are interested in pursuing the method I mentioned above for resolving PCI slot sharing issues, you should try to reset your ESCD in your bios after moving things around.
Try the simplest things listed first please.
If you still have an AGP based system you might try using Doubledawg to reduce your graphics card's PCI latency. Alternatively you might use a tool that can inspect the PCI latency setting of all the devices in the system, or try to adjust the 'default' as defined in your BIOS (nasty drivers that use high settings will still override the BIOS default and cause issues).
Check in your device manager and see if Scope is listed as obviously sharing with anything. In most cases this is the cause of issues. The very simplest way to resolve this is to disable everything in the BIOS you don't need. Some motherboard makers are actually nice enough to list PCI slot sharing in your motherboard manual too, so check that as well.
After disabling devices, do a reset in your BIOS on the ESCD (sometimes called "Reset Configuration Data"). Your BIOS saves ACPI mappings in the ESCD and passes them off to Windows on each boot, so things don't wind up shuffling around each boot causing needles device driver reloads. If you do manually reset this, you could potentially have several devices shift around and see driver prompts necessitating a reboot on first load of windows (after ESCD reset).
If that doesn't work you may have PCI slot sharing issues (shared with onboard devices or other PCI slots). The simplest fix for ACPI issues is just to disable it, but I personally don't ever need to nor do I recommend that anymore (especially with a modern multicore machine). Next step up (better than disabling ACPI but time consuming) is to manually try the Scope card in different slots until you get a slot that it seems to work well in. This is a bit of a shot in the dark and I dislike it since computers are not really that 'fuzzy', and you never really discover the cause of the issue so you may have problems again later.
Since you're using ACPI you may not be able to 'see' all the address sharing that's going on, IRQs are remapped by the APIC controller. I use my BIOS POST screen (you have to be quick these days to hit pause/break in time to see the IRQ listing) or a realtime linux kernel LiveCD (realtime linux doesn't use ACPI) to map out non-APIC allocated IRQ's. That lets me see what's sharing addressing lines before things start being remapped all over the place. Even though technically APIC allocates 'real' IRQs supported just fine by modern hardware, I've found that DSP cards (Scope, Powercore, UAD) and other devices that are particularly sensitive are the happiest if I find a PCI slot that's unshared or shared with the least troublesome devices when only 16 IRQs are in use. When I do that, then boot back into Windows even if the APIC 'steers' them to something that appears to be bad, things usually work much better. Such is the magic & mystery of "ACPI", something you could search and probably find hundreds of pages on here.
If you are interested in pursuing the method I mentioned above for resolving PCI slot sharing issues, you should try to reset your ESCD in your bios after moving things around.
Try the simplest things listed first please.
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
@valis:
The DPC latency checker showed green the whole time I was running it, latency usually around 100 us or less so don't think that's the problem.
Doubledawg reported latencies of 32 to 96, my graphics card was the 32 and the Pulsar 2 was the 96, so I don't think it's that
Device Manager -> Creamware Pulsar 2 -> Properties -> Resources states "No conflicts". I don't know if that's what you meant by checking for sharing with anything, if it isn't, can you please tell me where to look?
You mention disabling devices, what devices are you suggesting I disable?
What do you mean by ESCD? I'm unclear from reading your stuff about this how it would help other than shuffling decides around randomly. That doesn't sound very reliable
<skipping ACPI stuff for now>
I should point out that I only appear to be getting these glitches with Ableton. I don't remember having problems back when I was experimenting with Cubase, nor do I get any when just using the Pulsar for run of the mill stuff like watching streaming video, listening to streaming audio, or the normal sounds windows makes.
Any clues very welcome!
The DPC latency checker showed green the whole time I was running it, latency usually around 100 us or less so don't think that's the problem.
Doubledawg reported latencies of 32 to 96, my graphics card was the 32 and the Pulsar 2 was the 96, so I don't think it's that
Device Manager -> Creamware Pulsar 2 -> Properties -> Resources states "No conflicts". I don't know if that's what you meant by checking for sharing with anything, if it isn't, can you please tell me where to look?
You mention disabling devices, what devices are you suggesting I disable?
What do you mean by ESCD? I'm unclear from reading your stuff about this how it would help other than shuffling decides around randomly. That doesn't sound very reliable
<skipping ACPI stuff for now>
I should point out that I only appear to be getting these glitches with Ableton. I don't remember having problems back when I was experimenting with Cubase, nor do I get any when just using the Pulsar for run of the mill stuff like watching streaming video, listening to streaming audio, or the normal sounds windows makes.
Any clues very welcome!
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
@garyb, in answer to yours questions:
what drivers are you using?
Scope 4.0, drivers for Creamware Pulsar2 in Device Manager say 1.50.10.0, dated 7th May 2002
is there anything sharing an irq with the Scope card?
How would I check?
are you using a number of vsts and/or vstis?
Don't think I'm using any, how can I check for sure?
what does the computer actually have for hardware?
Intel D865PERL motherboard
Dual core 3.4GHz P4
3GB of RAM
Matrox Parhelia 128Mb graphics adapter driving 3 monitors (AGP but Windows says PCI bus 1, device 0, function 0)
Linksys LNE100TX ethernet card (PCI Slot 2 (PCI bus 2, device 1, function 0))
Creamware Pulsar 2 (PCI Slot 5 (PCI bus 2, device 4, function 0))
Any other questions, lemme know!
And thanks to both of you guys for taking the time to respond!
what drivers are you using?
Scope 4.0, drivers for Creamware Pulsar2 in Device Manager say 1.50.10.0, dated 7th May 2002
is there anything sharing an irq with the Scope card?
How would I check?
are you using a number of vsts and/or vstis?
Don't think I'm using any, how can I check for sure?
what does the computer actually have for hardware?
Intel D865PERL motherboard
Dual core 3.4GHz P4
3GB of RAM
Matrox Parhelia 128Mb graphics adapter driving 3 monitors (AGP but Windows says PCI bus 1, device 0, function 0)
Linksys LNE100TX ethernet card (PCI Slot 2 (PCI bus 2, device 1, function 0))
Creamware Pulsar 2 (PCI Slot 5 (PCI bus 2, device 4, function 0))
Any other questions, lemme know!
And thanks to both of you guys for taking the time to respond!
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Scope 4.0, drivers for Creamware Pulsar2 in Device Manager say 1.50.10.0, dated 7th May 2002
not what i was asking about. i'm talking about the software i/o modules.
How would I check?
start/programs/accessories/system tools/system information/hardware resources/conflicts-sharing
Don't think I'm using any, how can I check for sure?
look inside the sequencer inserts....
not what i was asking about. i'm talking about the software i/o modules.
How would I check?
start/programs/accessories/system tools/system information/hardware resources/conflicts-sharing
Don't think I'm using any, how can I check for sure?
look inside the sequencer inserts....Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Still don't know what you mean... if you mean Scope bits and bobs then just a couple of mixers, a compressor, ASIO in/out, Wav in/out, midi in/outnot what i was asking about. i'm talking about the software i/o modules
Nope, definitely not then!Don't think I'm using any, how can I check for sure?
look inside the sequencer inserts....
Here's the dump:start/programs/accessories/system tools/system information/hardware resources/conflicts-sharing
Code: Select all
I/O Port 0x00000000-0x00000CF7 PCI bus
I/O Port 0x00000000-0x00000CF7 Direct memory access controller
I/O Port 0x000003C0-0x000003DF Intel(R) 82865G\PE\P Processor to AGP Controller - 2571
I/O Port 0x000003C0-0x000003DF Matrox Parhelia 128MB
IRQ 16 Matrox Parhelia 128MB
IRQ 16 Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D2
IRQ 16 Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24DE
IRQ 18 Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D7
IRQ 18 Creamware Pulsar2
IRQ 18 Intel(R) 82801EB Ultra ATA Storage Controllers
Memory Address 0xA0000-0xBFFFF PCI bus
Memory Address 0xA0000-0xBFFFF Intel(R) 82865G\PE\P Processor to AGP Controller - 2571
Memory Address 0xA0000-0xBFFFF Matrox Parhelia 128MB
I/O Port 0x000003B0-0x000003BB Intel(R) 82865G\PE\P Processor to AGP Controller - 2571
I/O Port 0x000003B0-0x000003BB Matrox Parhelia 128MBcheers,
Chris
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
yes, can you move the card to a different slot and then check system info again?
if not, go into the device manager and disable "Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D7".
those are not Scope "bits and blobs", those are the input and output jacks for the card and all your software. they need to be understood to get the most enjoyment and good results from your card.
if not, go into the device manager and disable "Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D7".
those are not Scope "bits and blobs", those are the input and output jacks for the card and all your software. they need to be understood to get the most enjoyment and good results from your card.
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greenbluegold
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:15 am
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
I just want to mention that while Ableton and scope play nice together, in my experience Ableton and Scope with other software installed can start causing problems. I was never able to determine what exact change it was, I suspect it was the usb dongle, but as soon as I installed wavelab onto a stable Ableton and Scope setup, it started crashing all the time.
I went through all the IRQs, disabled USB etc etc, but was never able to get a "corrupted" setup to work cleanly again after having installed wavelab even if I unplugged the dongle or turned off all usb.
All I'm saying is that the problem may be complex.
I went through all the IRQs, disabled USB etc etc, but was never able to get a "corrupted" setup to work cleanly again after having installed wavelab even if I unplugged the dongle or turned off all usb.
All I'm saying is that the problem may be complex.
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irrelevance
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
I have had this problem on my system. Cubase functioned perfectly but ableton live would pop and click all over the place. At first it looked like a live upgrade was to blame as downgrading solved the problem. However I wasn't happy downgrading so I tried running asioforall which is a software asio emulation and the latest upgrade of live ran fine without glitches! Eventually I opened up my pc and reseated all scope boards. Live has run without problems since. Give it a try it might work for you.
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Nebukadneser
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Bergen, Norway
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
I am quite fon of Ableton Live 7.0 and use it on my laptop which is connected to Noah EX. I know that the preferences dialogue box gives you some options. What are your settings in the Ableton environment?
Neb
Neb
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
What version of Live are you using? Version 4 was glitchy on my scope setup. Version 6 and 7 run fine on the same setup. I have scope 4 (scope pro).
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we don't know we don't know.
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
@garyb: finally got the time/balls to rip open my PC and shuffle cards. I'm please to say that having swapped the network card and Pulsar around, I no longer see the Pulsar showing up on start/programs/accessories/system tools/system information/hardware resources/conflicts-sharing and, better yet, haven't heard any audio glitches in the light testing I've done since
Will update here if I have any more problems but a huge thanks in the meantime!
Will update here if I have any more problems but a huge thanks in the meantime!
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Another thing to check although proberbly not related, make sure ableton is using MME midi drivers as the direct sound could be emulated and causing a lag.
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
The problems are solved, and I haven't been using *any* midi in testing.
FWIW, all my midi ports are set to the default, which is MME.
FWIW, all my midi ports are set to the default, which is MME.
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Oh well, it was nice while it lasted...
The glitches are back.
Noticed them today when I'm using my XV5080 as an external instrument in Ableton with the midi going out through a MOTO Midi Express XT and the audio coming in through the Pulsar.
That said, doesn't mean the glitches aren't happening with it's just pure audio stuff, I may just have not noticed them...
Still no conflicts showing using the messages, and little processor usage showing in Ableton. However, I have noticed that there are processor spikes around the time of the crackle the the Task Manager performance tab. Could this cause the crackling? If so, how and why? And also, how can I find out what's causing the spikes? And why aren't they showing in Ableton's CPU usage?
Full of questions, me
Chris
The glitches are back.
Noticed them today when I'm using my XV5080 as an external instrument in Ableton with the midi going out through a MOTO Midi Express XT and the audio coming in through the Pulsar.
That said, doesn't mean the glitches aren't happening with it's just pure audio stuff, I may just have not noticed them...
Still no conflicts showing using the messages, and little processor usage showing in Ableton. However, I have noticed that there are processor spikes around the time of the crackle the the Task Manager performance tab. Could this cause the crackling? If so, how and why? And also, how can I find out what's causing the spikes? And why aren't they showing in Ableton's CPU usage?
Full of questions, me
Chris
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irrelevance
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Good article here: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun08/a ... s_0608.htm
Software can be found here: http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
This is also a very helpful app posted in the forums by Spacef not so long ago: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 96653.aspx
Haven't read this so sorry if mentioned but have you tried reseating the cards?
Software can be found here: http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
This is also a very helpful app posted in the forums by Spacef not so long ago: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 96653.aspx
Haven't read this so sorry if mentioned but have you tried reseating the cards?
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Did you try to set priority to normal in task manager ?
I had similar problems while recording audio channels in Cubase, so i lowered priority to normal (default = high) and recording went
fine after that.
Matej
I had similar problems while recording audio channels in Cubase, so i lowered priority to normal (default = high) and recording went
fine after that.
Matej
Re: Sound Glitches with Ableton
Instead of changing priority, the original Xp tweak guides for audio (and win2k etc) suggested that you set Windows to prefer 'background processes'.
Start > Ctrl Panels > System > Advanced tab > click "settings" under the Performance Area > go to the Advanced tab in Performance Options, under processor scheduling set it to Adjust for best performance of: "Background Services"
Worth a shot...though I've never had to do that in a machine with more than 1 cpu/core it should increase the handling of the ASIO buffer & its interrupt.
Start > Ctrl Panels > System > Advanced tab > click "settings" under the Performance Area > go to the Advanced tab in Performance Options, under processor scheduling set it to Adjust for best performance of: "Background Services"
Worth a shot...though I've never had to do that in a machine with more than 1 cpu/core it should increase the handling of the ASIO buffer & its interrupt.