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I have used these cheap ass Digitech Vocalist 1U units for a while and they suck as a harmonizer, but they work well w/ MIDI progran change messages and a hardware sequencer.

The effect I used was the Unison patch that was very close to way vocal tracks were overdubbed in the day recording 2 or 3 tracks and combining them. It sounds really well when the verse of a tune uses the basic treatments, then the chorus doesn't need to be sung loader, you just send a MPC message to the preset and voila.

In Scope I could recreate this effect by splitting the vocal into 2 or 3 signals, and adding a delay of so many msec.'s I believe.

Does anyone have a suggestion of which delay module would suit this best?

I already have 42 songs of the drum tracks done in Cubase, and will be adding vocals this month.

But I wanted to try and nail this effect before I start recording the back up vocals.



Thanks In Advance.

any delay with modulation will work, but i suggest good ole fashoined double tracking. if the session is run well and the vocalists are prepared, actually double tracking will sound better and be just as fast as tweaking fx.

True but we will already have backing vocals...................I guess it wouldn't hurt to add one actually. That way if the singers kinda' sick, the show can be faked,...just like they do on the big jobs. Trouble is though she embellishes alot. First time I heard her voice at Harrah's showroom in Tahoe, I thought it was this Black shick doing Rufus ( Chaka Khan ) who was from the Bay Area. I was shocked when I saw this beautiful, tall brunette whalin' away. Needless to say, Apollo's arrow struck deep and true.

Which delay module would you recommend just in case?

BTW, I'll be doing mostly small rooms, 100-150 mostly w/ no House system. I heard a 5.1 Big Blue system a few weeks back that are considered Mid-field monitors. They sound incredible. Unbelievable detail and no false booms from the Sub. You think those would do small venues pretty well? They are 2000 watts RMS per cabinet I believe.


Thanks.

You could use the CD100 - 6 voices with modulation - or the Multitap Stereo device which have 4 voices.

It would be pretty easy to create a device similar to Delay Designer (http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/effects/#delay) or TapFactory (http://www.tcelectronic.com/tapfactory.asp) for the Scope platform - The only problem would be the UI.

Cheers

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:True but we will already have backing vocals...................I guess it wouldn't hurt to add one actually. That way if the singers kinda' sick, the show can be faked,...just like they do on the big jobs. Trouble is though she embellishes alot. First time I heard her voice at Harrah's showroom in Tahoe, I thought it was this Black shick doing Rufus ( Chaka Khan ) who was from the Bay Area. I was shocked when I saw this beautiful, tall brunette whalin' away. Needless to say, Apollo's arrow struck deep and true.

Which delay module would you recommend just in case?

BTW, I'll be doing mostly small rooms, 100-150 mostly w/ no House system. I heard a 5.1 Big Blue system a few weeks back that are considered Mid-field monitors. They sound incredible. Unbelievable detail and no false booms from the Sub. You think those would do small venues pretty well? They are 2000 watts RMS per cabinet I believe.


Thanks.

Warp69's suggestions are pretty good. i didn't really understand what you had in mind before.

you're making me laugh with the BigBlue thing!(just because i like your enthusiasm and extremism) i remember when i had that much energy to do a show. Big Ups to ya! those probably would work pretty well! i'm only a little Jealous that you can afford such a nice system. placement might be difficult in a live environment, though.... if it was a theater....

in fact, if you were doing private parties for those who could afford Wilma's caddies, then the Blues might be simply awesome!

Bose has some pretty trick sh*t too if that's your p.a. budget. that stick thing is pretty trippy, and it sounds good. the 5.1 system would really be a no compromise solution though, wouldn't it?

Shelley's gonna buy those, it's her contribution. I also have some custom cases from A & S Case in Hollywood for those since they are expenisve. I forgot to tell her they would double as my studio monitors . And yes parties are a way of life in Tahoe. We have done some for guys like Steve Wynn, and Pernell Roberts ( Adam Cartwright aka Ponderosa ) who is a polished acoustic guitarist, but he damn near blinded me with the reflection off of his head.

Brotha' Man Warp69, I have the CD100 but could never get Craig to get back with me for the keys, so I pretty much gave up. I will be buying your reverbs when I get the XITE-1, actually why don't we make a package now. Please send me a PayPal link if you could and the prices for the A100/P100 /CD100and MultiTap Stereo. I need to stay busy until the unit ships by preparing insert effects presets, and new automation scenarios.

I know all of the gear is pretty extreme, but I always justify the costs by the gross and ROI figures, it helps me decide. I would never be able to afford this stuff if we weren't gigging.

Scope related products don't even make me hesitate when a purchase is concerned.

I have had a fantastic run in the last 3 years using GaryB's designed Giga/Scope DAWg's. Never a single hiccup live and for 2 years the one DAW travelled the country unsupervised and made a ridiculous amount of money w/ the Cackling Hen productions. Only when I started incorporating VST's did I run into troubles. But those are handled by GS4 now and pose no more problems.

I'll back CD100 for this vocal sound - it nails it. You gotta get the keys, Jim, you'll like it a lot. Two words, starting with F and B

Warp69 wrote:You could use the CD100 - 6 voices with modulation - or the Multitap Stereo device which have 4 voices.

It would be pretty easy to create a device similar to Delay Designer (http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/effects/#delay) or TapFactory (http://www.tcelectronic.com/tapfactory.asp) for the Scope platform - The only problem would be the UI.

Cheers

Project would be nice.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Wayne. F & B was translated properly.

Has TCElectronics decided to jump inot the Scope arena?

Or is this something I would run as a VST?

I could have Gigastudio 4 host it no problem, but w/ all of the power XITE-1 will have, I'd prefer saving my Wolfdale's cycles for VSTi hosting, and Scope for all effects, synths, VDAT playback @ 96k, and mixing chores.

Thanks 4 The Replies.

I can suggest to try the pitchshifter stereo. Using small amounts of fine tuning, (something like -5cents right and +5 cents left for example) and no modulation, I've managed to create a nice unison effect which I used a lot some time ago.

Add per voice: 1 SSB Delay M or S (depending on how you mix). Combine with a pitchshifter tuned a few cents up or down in parallel if you want to blur/thicken things a bit more. Duplicate this signal chain with various setting adjustments for each subsequent voice.

For something more choral add a bit of e-reflector with very short reflection times. Ie, set Spread somewhere between 0-35, Decay somewhere between 40 & 100, Delay 15-30ms, and then tune Shape and the High & Low Pass filters to taste. Mix in judiciously and possibly combine with a few of the above SSB Delay signal chains. Thicker than just a multitap but few enough delay times that it shouldn't cloud things too much.

Most of this can be accomplished by a bit of time spent in Mod2/3 as well. Using 3rd party modules can probably surpass the above in the amount of subtle thickening & motion you can impart since you'll have a lot more control, but I'm not sure how you feel about the stability of using the Mod shells live.

Excellent Ideas, Really.

I especially would like to use the Modular idea and love to test it in a mixer like Wolf makes.
This just shows how flexible and valuable this platform and forum truly are.

I just recieved a pm from a member I will keep secret that attached a device made for this effect. But have many options to experiment with.

So This Is How They Do It In The Big Forums 'eh?

This is a great effect for commercial use to add a polished sound to a performance. I have a good example from the Gods Of Yore called ELP. Their song Lucky Man is a perfect example pf a dry verse, and the effect applied to the choruses of the song. It's a great effect as it doesn't just use volume to achieve the desired sound, but " Thickness ".


Thanks Everyone.