PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

There is a massive lack of information regarding the software that comes with these cards. There is the huge list of software included in the hardware platform descriptions but that is all. OK so there is a huge list of software but no information on any of it. Not a picture, sound or even a description of what the thing is. For example what the heck is "U KNOW 007". I know what it is now that I own the card but before I had the card the only information I had on it was that is was a "Synthesizer".

Also when I look to the new web shop there are description on what the device is but there are no downloadable demos and almost no audio examples. I am looking around the site trying to figure out what I would like to buy and it seems that I am expected to buy audio software with out hearing anything at all. Hmmm that compressor looks nice, I hope it sounds good. I personally don't get it. I would never buy software (mastering bundle) that costs $800 Canadian with out hearing it in my own studio just because someone told me that it was good. These things are a matter of taste and musical content. I know that some of the 3rd party companies have sounds on there websites but there ought to be something on the Sonic Core site because that is there they are being sold.

I am the new guy around here and I hate to potentially start off on the wrong foot but it seems like such a huge oversight. It could all just be because I am getting into all this at a time of transition. Sonic Core have a lot on there plate taking over the product line. I just hope they keep adding content to the site.

all very valid points...

some useful info here:

ftp://ftp.creamware.com/Manuals

for your specific example:

ftp://ftp.creamware.com/Manuals/SCOPE/M ... nthesizer/

to be honest, for any product I am considering buying then seeking out the user manual is the useful thing to do - much better than the marketing blurb

Well it is a new company in effect and they only just launched the new site in the last couple of weeks. i would say that if these type of issues aren't addressed after Christmas then things need looking at - but it looks like they are developing the website and preparing for some new launches (Scope 5 etc), so now probably isn't the best time to judge the website content. Once there's a bit more on there it might be an idea to email them with some suggestions (eg. like big pictures of the devices, not thumbnails ).

PS. Of course we'll tell you what to buy here Have we led you astray so far?

well said..

i've finally bought the TC powercore after spending some time tryin to hear some demo sound of the SC vinco... and choosed to buy a second hand Odyssey for the same reason...

sometime, like I do with my daily conspiracy suspicion, I'm asking if SC want to hide something...

demo software could lead to cracked software, of course, but how can I imagine that none of the SC team ingineer feel the need to proudly show how they stuff are sounding?...so: some demo sounds...

about manual:
I don't need them, all other software appz now get the same functions, or more, so all it's about sound...

maybe it could be a better way to communicate about the quality and the long life of their product -compared to other - rather than trying to make us trust in some "fake" evolution or update...
( yes, I don't plane to get windows vista, for the while, cause even if I plug all my gear and loading all my fav vst, my "old" win2000 pc rock fine, of course, I get some problem when I play more than 48 tracks in cubase SX, but I don't care, I won't never record the philarmonic orchestra )

I'm still here cause I know that people at SC are truly involved in their work, but I don't like the way they try to be "in the business" as other speculative companies are...

Trademark as Clavia never play the "look this new gear" game, but they are still here, and solid-as-rock...

the more you will consider me as a buyer, the less I will buy...

when i bought my millenia preamp there was no demo, and it was expensive as hell....

still, demos are really helpful and important. have you written and requested a demo? perhaps they will help you.....

the original system of time limited demos has been cr*cked and that's about it.
It's not the fault of SonicCore.
there were demo versions and someone spoilt the party

On the other hand people will spend a 5 figure amount on a late 50s Precision Bass without even a glimpse of it, given the fact it's original and unmodded.
Anyone with a Scope system is immediately aware of the difference to (98% of all) VST plugs just by using the 'stock devices' - so why should the extra stuff magically turn out to be crap ?

cheers, Tom

yes, true, but I feel I have to support the wish for demos of the plugs and mp3 demos.
people just want it, in particular new customers, or people who have to choose and need to compare.
It's just in the interest of SC also.
Is implementing a new demo protection code complicated?
I'm not sure if you commented already on that lately, could be tho.

Now that I'm on it, I also think SC should refresh the whole XTC project.
If need be just for Vista, to avoid new problems.
New buyers will like the idea having the backdoor open.

A video of composing an SFP 'studio', and tweaking a synth would be also welcom.
The main problem for potential customers is the idea that SFP is an extra platform. Noone used to VST likes that fact.
So SC have to show them how easy SFP works, loading modules and connecting them.
Let them see also how the ports of Scope show up in Cubase and logic after having loaded them in SFP.
And tell them why DSP sounds better than native, to convince them that 'the second platform' will pay, and there's always...XTC.
I wouldn't even wait too long, there will be some press attention, and new customers will check the 'new' site.

We live in a medea culture, seeing is believing, even tho this was never so untrue in history as today.
Didn't we all 'see' the mobile labs for chemical weapons in Irak driven around?
They never existed

what I don`t understand a demo is locked to a specific card number.
how can it be cracked if the full versions can``t.

I may missed the times where cracks appeared, because I am a scope users just since ~ roughly one year.

SFP 2.x era I believe. Not worth using as you actually lose any plugins you own, meaning anything that has been built since that era (which is pretty much everything worth using).

I think audio demos would work for the synths but not for the mastering software. I also do not think that comparing a vintage instrument to a software plugin is fair. If the person knows what they are buying by hearing the same type of bass on a thousand different recordings then great. A fender Rhodes is a fender Rhodes. If you buy it from a safe seller then your fine. Software is a different story. Even people that make free plugins often have audio demos on there site. Why? because they are proud of them and they want you to use them because it makes them as the Creator happy. So a company that is trying to make profit fails to keep up with people that are making no profit I see it simply as poor customer service.

Who knows they could be working on it as I speak. The site is very very new and it could happen at any time. Or it may not happen at all. I just do not see a solid argument for not having audio demos on the site. Almost every other pro audio company selling foftware that I know of that does not offer a software demo provides audio examples. Some even provide both.

you're probably right about the audio demos.
Creamware frequently wasn't very fortunate in choosing the proper ones in the past, if any at all...
so it's not unlikely there's a change going at SonicCore in this domain as well

but almost all 'classic' Scope products have been covered by german audio mags, usually with examples on the CD that came with the mag.
Unfortunately it's under the copyright of the respective publishing company and some don't release that stuff to public.

cheers, Tom

Mike,
your critics about audio demos have their value and I aggree with your opinion.

I bought my Creamware cards also blindly, without having an idea of what sounds it could do.

Thats why I did create my site to give people a small idea of the possibilities these cards can give.

but as being a creamware/soniccore lover, I can only underline your statement, that soniccore needs some sound samples on their page.

for example soniccore could add comparison sounds of the real analog synths and the same preset sounds generated by their emulations.... to show how good they are.

not for myself, as I am convinced about their talented employees, but more for the fact that I don`t wanna see my beloved company back in insolvency.

so far I am not afraid, the new owners have already showed some great moves: new great website, announcement of free vista drivers, ...

we should keep relaxed and let them go their way.


the audio department seems a difficult consumer market, and even other famous companies have ended up in an insolvency, like Waldorf example shows...

Mike, i don't disagree that demos are needed, but i do disagree about hardware being hardware. there are a wide variety of say, fender rhodes pianos, they are not all the same. buying one without hearing it is a gamble. likewise for any compressor, synth or effect. many things are sold on reputation alone......

hifiboom wrote:we should keep relaxed and let them go their way.

Sure, relaxed is good. And hopefully they're going in the same direction in which their customers are.

To be honest it would appear that Creamware was in a complete shambles prior to it's recent transformation into SonicCore. Three of the developers on the new site have no mention of Scope on their web pages. A Dynatube search in Google goes to the new Creamware site which goes to softube which has no mention of Dynatube in Scope. Hardly surprising folks get confused.

Algorithmix does not list Scope as a supported system on it's site.

Brainwork bailed out and flogged their cards as was reported here.

SPL are about to release Transient Designer before the month is out with UAD.

So quite a few developers have shown they aren't interested in publicising their Scope products themselves though happy enough to get some spare change if it comes their way. C'est la vie.

Creamware must have been severely under staffed. Else why wouldn't they have fixed the little bugs and annoyances in the current software that they must know their customers want fixing. Simply no-one available to do it, I guess, a matter of priority.

It appears that SonicCore have inherited is a system and structure in desperate need of revitalisation so good luck to them; they seem to be up for giving it a go. So what if the site has a few missing pieces, no samples and wotnot. A site with a few omissions is better than no site. As hifiboom said the company could have gone bust like others. It's still kickin'. Still sounds good.

ns

I can't blame you.

Symbolic Sound has some very convincing demos of the Capybara DSP platform.

Soniccore demos would only help in it's sales. They are a small and proud company w/ a strange concept of marketing.

I will tell you this, I don't use my Oberheims live thanks to Scope. And use the B2003 through a real rotary cabinet and can do more than I did on the B3 w/ a 147.

If you don't buy Scope, I can't imagine doing analog emulations and trying to convince anyone other than the VST guys of it's authenticity. Arturia actually made me laugh when I heard their pathetic Moog Modular demo. It was convincing. As it convinced me to go w/ Scope / Giga based DAW's.

If you are unsatisfied w/ the generic sound of analog emu's in the VST format, you will be happy. If you do think VSTi's are quality synths, Scope will enlighten you on what they sound like on the big jobs.

Spend A Weeks Pay, If You Don't Like It, I WILL BUY YOUR CARD !!


So It Shall Be Written, So It Shall Be Done.

I already bought a card. And am in the process of buying the 4.5 upgrade with the synth add on. As for vst's there are a few good ones but massive virtual piles that suck. Tassman from AAS as well as Massive and FM8 From NI come to mind. Also one to check out is Symptohm from Ohm Force. This being said I Finlay found some time to play with he COS Demo today, as well as some of the included plugins. The sound of the synths and reverb is fantastic. They do shine very bright indeed. I have not done any A/B listening against my fave VST's so I do not want to get into a debate between VST vs. Scope based synths here.

Spend A Weeks Pay, If You Don't Like It, I WILL BUY YOUR CARD !!

which brings us to another marketing model:

buy, try it for a week and if you don``t like sent it back and get your money back.

I`m not afraid that many cards would be sent back ....

I have heard FM7 from NI and agree it is another good sounding VSTi, but as far as analog emulations are concrened, I think you will agree.

Let me know how Cos works out, I am interested in that one myself.

I have all of the real analogs, and AE's that I'll ever need, but performance features, and new synthesis forms are always welcome to my pack.

scope4live wrote:I have heard FM7 from NI and agree it is another good sounding VSTi, ....

then you'll be surprised about the FM-8 Mike mentioned, the sound engine is dramatically better - the funny thing is that Guitar Rig 3 still has the same tinny processing as FM-7.

If the FM-8 could export a 6-OP subset Version of a patch in DX7 Format, I would have already bought it...

cheers, Tom

FM-8 can import but not export DX7 because there are too many additional options (custom fm matrix instead of the 64/128 prepatched fm types, more than just saw osc as fm operators, etc etc). The sound would in no way be guaranteed to be preserved. With that in mind I don't see why someone adventurous couldn't write a .fxb > control/sysex converter with explicit instructions on what you need to do in fm-8 to insure compatibility. I suspect the sounds still won't translate well though, try doing an import on existing DX7 IID presets into fm8 and comparing the sound.

Back on topic, I think we should make a bunch of examples of SC synths and post them up for peer review, collecting the best examples for each synth (and plugin) at the top level of the planetz site. I know JCooper wants to revamp things up there anyway, time permitting....