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MAC BOOK PRO

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:14 am
by sonolive
i am about to buy aa Apple MAC BOOK PRO on a german eshop, the OSX is in English or in German ...

I would need it in French !!!

Any advert ? is it eazy to achieve ? do i need to buy another OSX in Fr or are the languages included ??

cheers
olive

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:24 am
by astroman
that's very unlikelky - the initial program that collects personal information (for Apple's marketing department :evil: ) and your basic internet setting, is multi-lingual.
If you choose 'French' it will most likely activate french localization for everything where a language option is available.

The default multi-language setting is a huge amount of data (half a million files or so...) that may be spared when (re-)installing from DVD with only your preferred language choosen.
It's a totally simple, fully automated process btw
just the caps on your keyboard will not match, if you don't buy a french version...

cheers, Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:59 am
by sonolive
ok thx

seems that i understood !
In fact it IS multilinguage OS
nice feature
cheers
olive

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:00 am
by H-Rave
This would seem to be the case.It's just a shame it's not a standard function in xp or vista.

:-?


http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120063

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:48 am
by hubird
think different...

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:15 am
by H-Rave
But then Mac is so much more efficient, requires so little tweaking, you just have to think about what you're doing, that's why writers and artists prefer them.

But when something goes wrong with them, It REALLY goes wrong, and we're not talking about blue screens of death, we're talking no screens any more of death, reinstall operating systems of death, and the worst af all,I'm not a computer technician I'm an artist of death.Mmmmm. I wonder if Mac technicians cost more than Pc technicians,

I think so.

No I'll keep my crappy pc

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:41 am
by hubird
:lol:

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:41 am
by astroman
H-Rave wrote:...But when something goes wrong with them, It REALLY goes wrong, and we're not talking about blue screens of death, we're talking no screens any more of death, reinstall operating systems of death, and the worst af all,I'm not a computer technician ...
well, considering the original Mac OS you're completely wrong.
On those machines all that was required was a simple copy of the system folder, rarely more than 15 minutes to get it going again :D

OSX is a bit more complicated, as the system updates not found on the install disk must be added, but then it's still faster than any Windows OS.
Even a full install from a DVD will not bother you with any 'drivers' related stuff.
I don't think trashing the OS part will affect the installed applications at all.

the difference is only noticable for someone with > 10 years of Mac experience - anyone else will consider OSX totally user friendly.
In fact OSX is a remarkable success to make a very complex operating system at least 'handable' for a non-technician.
You never notice that you're dealing with 'unix' at all

cheers, Tom

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:22 pm
by H-Rave
I completely agree with you on the original macs of course, the only real problems I've seen are on the osx laptops, I was refering specifically to them,, which I should have mentioned.I find it a shame that they're making the sales of the company. that and the Ipod of course.


And if you're looking in Steve, I think I can forget about a job application can't I ?But hey we're in a democracy ........right ???? Freedom of speech and what have you ???

Well I suppose I'll be recieving a writ in the post.

:P

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:42 pm
by hubird
stardust wrote:Thats like in real life.

If you want freedom and advanced thinking you might get also some troubles and you have to do own thinking.

But you need not to. There is always a mainstream nice looking and expensive alternative.
Not to provoke a classic discussion about platforms, but I just don't get this 'freedom' and 'own thinking' idea in relation to computers.
Does it means those concepts are part of your phylosophy, your life in general?
But why then are these arguements directed only to the use of computers and not to washing machines, cars, printers, phonecells, grasshoopers or shaving gear?
People might build cars as a hobby, fine, people might like to compose computers as a hobby, fine, but why should this hobby appoach be a principle of 'freedom'?
Freedom is a big word when using it in the context of consumers wanting to have a choice with tooth pasta, lotions, or computers.

I think there are only two reasons to not use a mac.

One is you can spare a consideral amount of mony building your own pc, if you know what you're doing and accept working with a inferior operating system which is not designed for multi medea use in the first place.

And two is if you just like building your own computer, as a hobby, nothing wrong with that of course.
The old arguement of software which is only available for Windows doesn't matter anymore, you just install Windows on an Intel mac and have it actually running parallel to OSX even.

The only f•cking mistake Apple has made is not including PCI slots anymore in the newer macs, leaving me with my Scope cards in the dark.
But even then, setting up my double mac DAW system was a matter of building it, I didn't have to face any problem, technically.
Is it normal to have a second (faster) graphic card in both my macs without even having had to remove the original one?

Congrats with you new labtop Olive, you seem to be even more sympatic to me nowadays :-D ;-)

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:04 pm
by Mr Arkadin
hubird wrote: Freedom is a big word when using it in the context of consumers wanting to have a choice with tooth pasta, lotions, or computers.
Hey hubird, where can i get this tooth pasta? Sounds great. :wink:

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:16 pm
by hubird
ok, tooth-paste :-D
(according to my old dictionary).

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:19 pm
by astroman
there is only one Pasta - and it's made by Martelli

drooling, Tom :D

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:24 pm
by valis
In hardware terms, MacBook pro is a great laptop, regardless of what other laptop you compare it to. In software terms, OSX is a great OS and you can use bootcamp/parallels to access windows and various LiveCD's to install the *nixes as well. It's even cost competitive and kept on equal footing with other laptop makers in terms of graphics chipset, firewire chipset, etc.

However I think there are some other points in this thread I could wax on about...

To start with, in pre-OSX MacOS's there was more than just 'simple copy of system folder' to deal with. Mac users made fun of PC users for dealing with hardware conflicts "Mac Just works!" (if it exists at all one should say). But instead of being able to map DMA and IRQ addresses with pencil on a sheet of printer paper and figure out how to keep everything from conflicting you wind up facing the Mac version of driver conflicts: control panel conflicts. Definately took me more than 15 mins to suss this out, as sometimes it would even be certain combinations of control panels and extensions. Ooh 3 yrs later you can save your 2 day long testing session as 'control panel sets' or something (dimly recall the name these days). Basically you're down to hand enabling things and rebooting, and the easiest way to track down combinations was either trial and error or by using a spreadsheet.

Hardware support was nonexistant. PC's from the inception were based around off-the-shelf hardware to break user's reliance on OEM hardware, which in the past had traditionally meant you were stuck buying hardware from the vendor you bought the computer and OS from, and the software development was a closely protected network of companies. There was of course some 3rd party hardware that did have Mac support, but due to architectural differences it still needed to be different hardware if it was an internal device. External devices only needed to be able to talk 'big endian' and 'little endian' from the 3rd party vendor. This is part of where the complexity of Mac networked with Unix came from btw, getting things transferred and in the right byte ordering was not always easy.

Then there's Appletalk, a great bonus for the average home user who needs simple home networking in an era before most PC home users even cared, but in a production environment getting it to work seamless with Windows & NFS shares was a bit of a mixed bag. Accessing the windows shares strictly from the mac side and everything was great, but do things on the windows side and you lost resource forks etc. Blame windows for not properly handling a mac's file structure, but the Mac always went out of its way to deal with a windows world it's surprising. Deal with nfs shares in a Mac environment and things got even worse, and talking to the Mac from the Unix/IRIX/Linux end and you're pretty much down to using ftp access (mac users used to like to call this 'letting you fetch' files). Of course that was 10 yrs ago and now Macs run BSD Unix so things do change.

I could go on here, waxing on about how Apple was so frequently influenced by the elitism of the RISC market it relied on for the core of its hardware, on & on about how most Mac users were comparing their upmarket hardware with a 16bit OS to another 16bit OS on crappy consumer hardware versus comparing themselves to the Xeons or PentiumPro era hardware running on an NT OS. But then again the NT OS had worse support for hardware & software than even Macs did for many many years (I know from personal experience).

Looking at today, I wouldn't consider OSX to be unfriendly but...

While Appletalk is now fully replaced by the BSD networking stack (Which all NT based OS's use as well btw), the hardware support end is still a huge thing. Apple has nicely given Mac users the ability to run most Windows software. But what about PC users who want to run on a Mac? Even now that they're on intel hardware, Mac is still different enough to require specific 'apple blessed' hardware. Take graphics cards for example. A 7300GT is crap for anyone that does anything in 3d, gaming or otherwise. The Ati 1900xt era card is fine if you don't mind sticking with 3dsMax or something that runs on OSX (Maya/Cinema4d etc), and still run 3 yr old games. But if you need a decent Nvidia card for 'proper' opengl drivers in linux & windows (and maybe a quick game of bioshock or crysis) you can choose from a Quadro or nothing. Wait! Even the Quadro is last year's tech?! And you're still paying prices as if it's current gen tech...

The same thing actually applies outside of just graphics card support as well btw. Need a nicer backplane and have to upgrade your external array to SAS? Not everyone wants a Mac server as their primary work machine and lose the internal expansion and PCIe graphics just to have SAS. Even with the popularity of FinalCut Studio among the SOHO set, you're still limited to a very small selection of hardware or firewire (which isn't the same as an SAS raid!). Part of the overall reason here in terms of hardware support is that Apple decided to go with EFI. Most Windows based devices still only need to deal with the BIOS, and *nixes that go for EFI support include some level of BIOS support to at least get devices up & running under EFI. And of course the other end of the stick here is that even devices that should work in theory, even with some effort (flashing a bios loader in place of EFI support at the extreme) you'll still need to dig in by hand and edit system level configuration files. In fact none of this would even be possible for the average user if there wasn't the pirated OSX scene figuring things out. When I ran G3's and G4's people certainly weren't digging that far into the OS so I guess that's a plus.

Of course the biggest issue here I think is that people can get really used to what they know well, and minor differences among platforms can seem like huge glaring issues. As much as I might cry about still not being able to run a single machine for all my tasks (and have it be an Apple blessed xeon box to boot), when you get down to it every OS & hardware platform suffers from bugs and limitations in some cases, and has strengths in other cases.

Back to the Macbook Pro, by anyone's reconing it's excellent when compared to other laptops because every laptop vendor has mostly closed hardware. Aside from swapping ram/hd/cpu (which is all possible with a Macbook Pro) there's usually little else you can upgrade internally. The desktop is still a different story, as Mac Pros are not really much more open.

But still I'd be damn happy with a Macbook Pro myself (my laptop is still a single core centrino!). :)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:34 am
by sonolive
hi

thx again for all these infos ... ;-) ... but in fact i was just asking about one feature ... now i know lots ... Kool

The fact is that i am buying this mac book pro for a "pro" customer .... and not for me at all !

Personally, all my "live" stands on a SONY VAIO VGN217 ... and i am very very² happy with it .

in fact what i would need, is an OSX on it as a multiboot ! ;-)
any ideas ? linux ?

cheers
olive

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:13 am
by darkrezin
Have a search for 'osx86 project' on google..

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:57 pm
by astroman
well, I just had to grab this thread again... though it's actually a pointless contribution, let alone a useful one... but still I was mighty impressed tonight.

there's some tidy up needed in the office and that spoilt sunday afternoon plus the evening and '...of course' took a few hours longer than appreciated :roll:

my 'problem' was the 'emergency isdn server', the thingy which gets engaged once the internet or a customer's email system fail and a deadline is threatening.
This requires cards with a slot system called Nubus and I have only 2 machines in the office featuring this bus: a Quadra 650 with Motorola 68K CPU and a Powermac 6100 with PPC Cpu.
The server lets people on the LAN use the ISDN connection as if the workstation had a direct ISDN connect and it runs a receiving service so someone can call from outside and drop files in a folder. For this story it's not really important to know what exactly it's doing, but anyone who has setup a similiar service in Windows knows that it's not the most simple thing ;)

So I plugged the ISDN card into the PPC, moved the Quadra's harddisk to the PPC and booted the machine.
Message: Connected to ISDN - and the 'active users' log window showed up
that's all folks...
and that was the way programming was done at Apple when they talked business, not 'i' :D :P

cheers, Tom

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:11 pm
by darkrezin
agreed...that's indeed rather cool.

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:28 pm
by hubird
I told you... :-D

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:52 pm
by garyb
no hubird, that's how it USED to be.....