PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

HI,

Basically, I need DSP with good plugins and only have one PCI slot available. I can get for the same price either a UAD studio or a Scope project with Mix&master and Synth&Sampler. I know Scope has more to offer, however I was looking for more info about the plugin quality.
I'm no analog freak so I don't care that Vinco doesn't sound exactly like a 1176, however does it sound good? do you think I will be missing the 1176 ?
Do you think that overall the quality can be compared to UAD, including here the Mix&Master plugins, the third party and free devices that can be found here?

Regarding the XTC mode, I recall a discussion saying that not all the plugins were working, does a list exist? is the more important one(Vinco, PsyQ, MasterVerb Pro, ...) and synth Work?

Do you think with it's 6 DSP that the Scope project is more powerful than the UAD single one DSP card? I recall an old review about the XTC card, which I think had 6DSP as well, were the guy was saying that it had so much power than you got tired of adding plugins and synth before the thing gets even full.

Any input will be really appreciated. I know a lot of people using UAD which are really happy with it, however none that even heard about Scope.

Thanks.

Francis.

I think that you will find that true emulations of analog gear really is in the ears of the beholder. As far as I'm concerned with one PCI slot left I would plug it up with Scope, and soon you will not even consider XTC anymore and run your mixes into Scope. I'm sure that UAD which has a great name is the bee's knees for some people, but once you get the hang of Scope and use the excellent effects and unparalleled synths you will be hooked. Vinco is great and if it really is the true emulation of the real deal, I don't know and don't care 'cause it has it's own sound and my VST environment works seemlessly with Scope and I am a happy camper! Not sure if this helps but I took a plunge with Scope two years ago when nobody in my neck of the woods had ever heard of it and I can't believe that anybody would consider anything different or at least incorporate Scope into their set-up. I just did some additional sound with my modest studio for a major motion picture premiering at the Cannes Film Festival next month and at a theatre near you this summer, and Scope was the platform and never hiccuped and matched the material from the big expensive studio in New York.....enough said....someday when another PCI becomes available, go for the UAD...nothing wrong with different sounding tools, in the meantime..get your Scope!

bear in mind that people here are highly biased toward the scope platform (this is a good thing for the purpose of this board i think, and indicitive of the quality of the product, but maybe peoples love for scope would cloud their judgement when comparing w/ other platforms)...
i bought a scope pro card a few months ago and i too love it, but i must say that while i adore the synths (modular+flexor is worth the price of admission alone, not to mention prowave and the cw emulations), somehow im not so crazy about the effects. this is of course subjective, but i tend to get better results with some native plugs, like audiodamage stuff (regarding reverbs and delays)...i do find masterverb quite nice and very useful though..
for me this is fine since i bought the card more for the synths - but honestly i think if you are more interested in effects, especially emulations of analogue gear, and if integration w/ your host is important, maybe UAD would be the better choice. if you are interested in some high quality synths however, its a no brainer - scope all day!
another thing to consider is the plethora of third party plugins which continues to grow (check the devices section of this forum) and the very helpfull and dedicated userbase - you will always get help here, im not sure the same can be said about UAD.
hopefully someone who owns both cards can chime in.
good luck!

while a certain bias is indeed reasonable on a 'Scope' board, I nevertheless completely disagree with the FX judgement.

DeVice's ISON EQ can compete with native Sonalksis
SpaceF's Echo3 is THE Uberdelay (Roland wanted to hire the developer some time ago)
STW P100/CD100 and A100/I100 reverbs are unmatched in the native world
I once sent a track (posted raw) through the STW MasteringComp (as an example) and re-posted the result. Someone suggested I should offer mastering services... I did nothing but move 2 sliders a bit up and down
Interpole is a trustworthy Moog filter (how much is a moogerfooger ?)
you will not find an vocoder like Vorb in native code

and the whole palette of stock FX is featured on a Fairlight console '...because they sound so good...' (according to their site)
imho those stock devices are often neglected because of their 'humble' GUI and of course because they are 'stock' ...can't help it, but I happen to like the compressor on my bass...
and don't forget: the whole Modular/Flexor system can be used as an FX processor

cheers, Tom

the vinco is great. it's not an 1176, but neither is the UAD plugin. vinco is everything you need in an 1176-type compressor, however. they're not all the same(1176s vary considerably unit to unit) and i've had/heard a number of them. the vinco is more than sufficient, it's my favorite general use compressor. optimaster is great. bx digital is awesome. wolf's eqs are firstrate. the STW a100 and P100 are fantastic. psyQ isn't something i usually use, but it's as good as any psychoacoustic eq(basically it's an SPL vitalizer!). the ISON eq is great, celmo makes great effects. SpaceF makes some phenomenal delays and other tools. the DAS plugs sound good. the basic effects are useful. scope has a REAL spl transient designer available! there are many awesome effects, basically all you need.

i've never missed a UAD card. i've heard them and they're good, but there's nothing there so good that you won't have what you need. you can use both at the same time, so it's really not either or.

the real advantages to scope are
#1, the routing.
#2, the scope card is an extremly high quality i/o device(UAD is just an effects device).
#3, the mixing is superior to native only and allows REALTIME interface with hardware or other external devices and sources.
#4, SCOPE IS REALTIME and effects can be used that way. UAD has high latency which must be compensated for, eating cpu cycles. if you don't use XTC mode and mix in scope, this isn't a problem for scope.

all true, you don't need anything else...it's just that with the UAD you pay for what you get, in Scope you don't get all plugs included from start, some will be optional.
With Scope you just get your hands on so much more, like Gary says.
You get yourself a whole studio!
Often forgotten this arguement, but UAD is used by everyone, Scope not...
You improve the chance your mixes will have that little special, just because you use a different (less known) platform, with it's own workflow and sound.
It's kinda smart move to choose for the (qualified) 'underdog'

Oh yeah, Optimaster and Psy-Q, standardly included in my master section, are gorgious (I have the original SPL Vitalizer too, they hardly differ).

all true ... just a comprehensive studio (scope) vs a good effect emulation board ...

i have scope prof and uad studiopack + rolandpack.
in my opinion both cards are worth the purchase.
creamware is very good in emulating vintagesynths like minimoog, prophet, b3, arp odessey, etc.
but when it comes to mixing nothing beats the uad studiopack. especially the studioverb, rolandpack, cambridge eq, 1176LN. actually all the uad eqs and compressors are worth the purchase.
go for both.
i would´t use the creamware for mixing cause you cannot bounce your tracks like you can with an uad. but when it comes to synths creamware is one of the best - very much better synthesis quality than most of the vst plugins. (some are close like timewarp, op-x, legacy collection)

If you're not an analog freak then choose Scope. I've had the UAD card about 3-4 times, keep selling and rebuying thinking I was missing something. The plugs are nice but nothing that special now. The Vinco is an excellent comp, easily comparable to expensive hardware. And with Scope you can even insert it like hardware, realtime.

Overall Scope is a lot more verstatile. Vinco and P100 are almost worth it alone.

Thanks everybody.
I guess bottom line is that what's there sounds good and you have access to third party plugins that are of high quality. However, is there a place where they are all listed? I found SpaceF website, but not the other mention like STW.

It seems nobody is using XTC mode around here, I guess because of the latency it introduce, however the reason I was asking about it originaly is that Native mode seems so intimidating when looking at screen shot. And flexibility is good, but if it takes 15 minutes to figure out how to add this or that device it isn't really productive. So I was telling myself if Native mode doesn't work for me at least I could be using it in XTC mode, like you will do for UAD or any other vst/vsti. Also I'm using a host that do automatic latency compensation, but does it work? Or will I be finding pifalls, plugins synth that do not work no matter what.... I have seen workaround to make XTC works in different post, do they ultimately work for all pugins and synth?

Thanks again, really appraciated.

Learning how to use Scope is an effort, but you only have to figure it out once. Once you have figured it out it's of great benefit because of the flexibility it introduces.
If you are used to work in a hardwarestudio environment, scope is a nobrainer, but if you, like me, started out in strictly software, getting your head around scope might take some time, all though it's still worth it.

Since we are all fanboys here, people will off course point you in the (right) direction of scope.
But maybe if you try to tell us something about how you usually work and what it is you are hoping to achieve with your new system, we will better be able to point you in the right direction.

Also tell us something about your current system specs like motherboard (chipset), since some MB's are known not to be up to the task.

Good point, I'm using a Dell E520 Intel Core 2 Duo with their stock intel mobo.
I never used analog studio gears, however I have been introduce to ASIO/WAVE routing with my current EMU 1616 sound card, so that part shouldn't be too bad to get up to.
I'm exclusively using vsti for everything I'm doing at the exception of guitar/bass and vocal that I record. As it is I do not owe high quality plugin and synth emulation, so scope could fill that gap. Also the reason I need DSP is that I'm constantly maxing out my CPU and track bouncing is just always a big puzzle because of send/return being used.

Thanks.

As petal says, once you have set up a default project in Scope then you really won't have an issue - most here buss from the sequencer into Scope for a better sounds/more versatility and back into the sequncer again, all without latency. i'm not sure about your stock Dell, but check that you have the right PCI slots as i have a feeling you may have newer PCI-Express slots which will be of no use - you need PCI 5V slots.

I would choose a Scope Project. I use a mixture of UAD, Powercore and Scope cards. They are all great for different reasons. I think your main problem will be only having one PCI slot and, if you purchase a Scope Project, you will soon run out of DSP - the same as if you purchased a UAD or Powercore card. So you would be far better off purchashing a Scope Professional with 15DSPs. These sell for amazingly low prices on this forum. New they cost about £750.

The bonuses of Scope cards compared to the UAD or Powercores are:-

1)Far more variety of plugins available - many independent Scope plugin developers
2)Many great free plugins available - see this forum's Devices section for starters
3)You can get rid of your old soundcard - free up a slot and perhaps sell the card
4)No latency issues - please check up on this as I am not 100% certain on the exact details but I know if you link up a few UAD or Powercore plugins in your host (Cubase/Logic etc) you will soon notice the delay. If you use the Scope environment (not XTC mode) then you will not have this problem.
5)Far more routing options - does your host limit your routing capabilites? Want to sidechain but can't? Use Scope!
6)The Scope environment - I used to mix in Cubase - not anymore!! I route everything from Cubase into the Scope routing window and, if I want to, back into Cubase again. I use the fantastic Scope mixers and everything just sounds far "better" than when I mixed in Cubase. This seems to be the opinion of most forum members here. I would say don't use XTC mode use the Scope Routing Window environment.

Powercore/UAD cards are quick and easy to install, use and understand. Scope cards will take more time to understand and, as I have found out, will often leave you screaming in frustration as you try to work out why something doesn't seem to work. But that's why this forum is so great. Due to the vast possibilities available with Scope, there is a lot more to learn and the users here at PlanetZ are very friendly and helpful.

Now get saving!............

most of the 3rd party stuff can be found through the devices forum. what's not there is on the designer's' webpages.

Your original post mention Scope Project with Synths&Samplers and Mix&Master...both of these come bundled with Scope Professional....with Scope Project you must choose one. (and pay for the other). If you want both then Scope Pro is an incredible bargain...15 DSP's + a hell of a lot of fantastic plugs.

Why don't they sell more of these things????? If you went out and paid for decent VST version of all these plugs it would cost a lot more...and sound a lot worse and chew up your DAW CPU.

The only explanation is that Creamware marketing has been crap

Hear that SonicCore?

a true thought, husker. however, i can tell you that from my experience, consumers are so brainwashed that they will be determined to buy crappier solutions even when shown the truth with their own eyes. almost all the demos i do in the retail store result in a mind being blown by the value and possibilities of the scope world. very few of those so impressed actually purchase scope. most still by an m-box or digi002. willful ignorance is the order of the day....

same with the choice between a pc and a mac.
oops, that slipped through, and now suddenly I can't find the edit post button anymore, so you have to ignore this post.

garyb wrote:a true thought, husker. however, i can tell you that from my experience, consumers are so brainwashed that they will be determined to buy crappier solutions even when shown the truth with their own eyes. almost all the demos i do in the retail store result in a mind being blown by the value and possibilities of the scope world. very few of those so impressed actually purchase scope. most still by an m-box or digi002. willful ignorance is the order of the day....

very wise words garyb
i think the necessary point is that on this earth committed company's exist which don't see mainly the money but rather in quality products and in the community.
if the committed companys work together hand in hand then they will receive the earned rewards from the community which have eyes in their head

... but it was the truth, Huub
not relevant anymore as Apple uses the same Intel boards as everyone else, but we used 2 generations of Macs in the office (over a period of 10-12 years) each machine used between 5 and 6 years.
Those Macs were about 30% more expensive than the respective PC model, but lasted 300% longer - and nothing was wasted into 'courseware', training and education. Learning on the job did it.
No antivirus software and for a couple of years not even a firewall for internet use - if I remember correctly 3 harddisks failed (10 workstations/10 years), but no data loss as everything could be recovered as the first symptoms showed up...

these 'facts' were well known and frequently published, yet people ignored them completely - stupidity rules

no intention to distract from the thread, but marketing on 'facts' simply doesn't work, regardless if the company is CWA or SonicCore

cheers, Tom