PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hey guys! didn't know where else to put this thread, so i hope this is the right spot...


anyways, on to the post. i am really having trouble identifying some certain timbres, and how they are created, and what they are called. i am going to post three clips of audio. the two timbres i have trouble with in this song is an air horn sound (that is what it sounds like to me...) and the bass/ bass & synth...

the first clip you can hear the horn on the first beat, and it last almost the entire bar:

ftp://u40081940-420:02198417@s158897080.o...s/Temp/horn.wav

the second clip has a synth, which sounds gated. the only reason i included this clip is so you can hear the synth without the bass, because i believe the bass is made of this gated synth, and a sub bass maybe? or maybe even three timbres?

ftp://u40081940-420:02198417@s158897080.o...nth%20build.wav

this third clip has the full arangement. so, my question is, how do i get my bass to sound like this? or close to this?

ftp://u40081940-420:02198417@s158897080.o...s/Temp/bass.wav


so, i guess my main questions are like i said... do these timbres have names? where can i find them? how can i make them? thanks for any help!

i really don't know much about edm timbres, and need to learn... anyone know of a site which has most common ones used, what they are called, and how to create them?

no one gonna take a stab at it?

i have posted this on three different boards affliliated with producing... and no one has replied yet... ??? are these sounds really hard to place?

why should they ?

if you heard them out of context, you probably wouldn't even take notice
it's the context that eventually makes them 'sound' after all

a not-so-uncommon-phenomenon, one looks after 'great' sounding presets and what does one get ? a great sounding preset, but that's about it, it's pre-set, not tuned to a specific context, song idea, note, whatever...

I have no idea of what the sounds you mention are made, but (imho) they are fairly raw, not too much fx mangled.
If you like such stuff, then have a close look at Wavelength's Uberplastic, OP8 and sparC - they offer a wide palette in this domain.
Of course almost any synth can be tuned into this direction, but the 3 above make it specifically easy.

You get these 'hollow' sounds by either a high part of square waves or by moving bandpass/combfiltering them.
It's not uncommon such sounds are layered, like you mention with the subbass.
The 'atonal' feature of the 'horn' sound (as you call it) can be achieved by crossmodulating the oscillators - don't ask me how that's done in details - it's written on the buttons on the surface, so it must be like that
But similiar sounds are known from 'classic' FM synths - or it's just a reversed sample . Filtered delays are often a good choice in this context (to keep the basic sound clean, of course all a matter of taste)

cheers, Tom

hey tom, thanks for at least a reply, and your pm... guess i really didn't think of people taking my pass and hitting port 22 for administration... POINT TAKEN!

on to the post. i know there is no way to say, "use this osc, with this one, detune it 3 cents, and apply a 10% lfo to the pitch..." or whatever. i am just looking for a starting point. i actually am not looking for perfect presets... i want to learn how to actually construct these timbres. i thought someone would be able to say, "it sounds like they may have started with a square and a saw, some detuning going on, and sounds like maybe a filter modulation going on."

just really want to learn more about synthesis, and creating sounds... but i don't know where to start. i figure finding out what timbres are used for certain applications, to get certain sounds, then i can deconstruct those timbres, and maybe learn how to create and use them. i know a tad about synthesis, what oscillators are, what they are used for, how to detune them, how to modulate pitch and filter settings... but i don't know where to go from here?

i will definetly look at the synths mentioned, and thanks again for the response!

___crisis___1 wrote:... i know there is no way to say, "use this osc, with this one, detune it 3 cents, and apply a 10% lfo to the pitch..." or whatever.

well, in fact there is... every month in the mag that comes by mail, there's a section doing exactly that...
I've already considered to cancel the abo for the recipies bs...

The preset example wasn't directed specifically at your question, I just took the freedom to extend it a little bit...
Presets (lots of good sounding) seem to be absolutely essential for a synth's success today.

To be honest, if there wasn't Scope, all I'd need would be 1 monosynth, say a Prophet One and 1 FM thing, say a DX7 or TX802 or TX816.
The latter group happens to have the most numerous and versatile group of presets, with a little mixing, fx processing etc there's hardly any sound I can't imagine from that setup.

In that sense I even have the same problem as you, not knowing where to start from...
I have the all (main) Bowen, Celmo, Creamware, SpaceF, Wavelength synths for Scope, including Modular, Flexor and the samplers (only Prodyssey and Sixstring missing).
My biggest pain is my greatest joy - I often dunno what to pick, but simultaneously love to have the choice - and I truely admire all their creations

As a solution I've come to associate a certain synth with a certain sound picture and atmosphere - I then focus on that one and keep it relatively pure.
Of course I also do start with a preset, but any will do - I rarely save my own, as I like to 'explore' the sound while it's happening.

That's why I suggested a look at the Wavelength devices, imho they feature that type of sound aesthetic very well - I've listened to your example and the bell rang that category.
If you start tweaking from one of Stephen's presets you'll quickly get on.
After all it's your personal sound perceiption and motivation that counts.

But I also experienced (as written above) that it's not the sound of the patch itself, that matters - more it's context and acoustic space.
Add some modulations and feedback chains here and there and you can make any sh*t sound gorgeous on Scope - SpaceF's Blackbox (including the Echo Uberdelay) is a good example.

Just be open minded to experimentation and remember when (and by what) you achieved a specific sound - usually there are several possibilities that lead to the same (or a similiar) destination.
If you emphasize a bass synth by adding a resonant filter at a certain (low) frequency or if you layer an envelope shaped deep sine may sound different if listened isolated and with an analysing mind - in the mix they may be just equivalent.
In the synths you mention there's a lot of comb filtering to my ears, or at least a bandpass that moves.
Can't remember the 'horn' right now, but you may consider to detune the pitch (slightly down) while increasing it's space (controll the reverb part by a compressor sidechained to something on the beat) - there are tons of possibilities, of which I've only scratched the surface (I mean generally...)

cheers, Tom
(I did not send you a pm btw...)

yea... that wasn't you who sent the pm... sorry for the mix up.

anyways... what magazine do you speak of?