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hello all,
i'd a master with Finaliza+Dither and got gain -2..-1 not less than -3dB. but when i compared with a song of the band Corrs-Breathless i got offended
Amazing that song has a gain like -1dB but louder than mine. how come this is possiable?
how can i get gain like they do? also their wev is thicker than mine. @garyb i'd open one of your reggae song and that has the same problem..... plz help
thanks

a job for steinbergs loudness maximizer?

Thanks AndreD. using maximizer can cause adding distortion.maybe a little gain can be found but still i need more gain.
is this is the only way to sound like them. what is the basic theory of getting most gain?
thanks

It starts with compressors on every single track in your song.
It can end with additional compressors in your mastering chain, followed by a maximizer.

Today everybody tries to beat the other in loudness, I hate it but when you will sell your music it is a must to be as loud as your foes, damn it.

On 2004-08-28 11:45, firubbi wrote:
Thanks AndreD. using maximizer can cause adding distortion.maybe a little gain can be found but still i need more gain.
is this is the only way to sound like them. what is the basic theory of getting most gain?
thanks

To my ears, the loudness maximizer doas the best job. (Style @ -3 )

imho the trick is not to compress mathematically (how much can I get out of each single track) but psychologically.

What 'part' (instrumentation, vocal, song position) will catch the listener ?
Leave the rest at a reasonable level and give only the important parts a real push
Also take care at the non-linear frequency response of the ear at different loudness levels - that button on classic amps had a reason.

my 2 cents, Tom

Also take care at the non-linear frequency response of the ear at different loudness levels - that button on classic amps had a reason.

my 2 cents, Tom

Thanks Tom. can you tell more about non-linear frequency response...
Thanks all

That is expressed in dB(A) instead of dB, it how the same sound pressure at subs is less perceived untill it rolls off to 0 below our hearing range. The human ear is most sensititve in the frequency range of the human voice, it's the basics of our communication.

Also what makes differences with professional albums it like just the whole process, not just dynamics. I don't use a lot of compression anymore, I moved to the philosophy of 'What's never been made doesn't need to be removed'. A compressor will change the dynamics just like an ADSR does, so to speak. You can make thinks punchier or smoothen them out dynamically. What this relates to Tom's explanation? You could remove low frequencies from all tracks except the kick and the bass. These lows, which carry a lot of energy (read: dB) but are often not perceived anyways. Try to remove as much as you can get away with. More global, it comes to good EQ'ing and dynamics, good placement of sounds thru the frequency spectrum etc.

A great production example I been listening to for a while is 'Devine Moments of Truth' by Sponghle: it is so full, but seems not to overload the monitors. I can turn that album up loudest in the car, and it just keeps sounding great. So well balanced...

You could compress it more and squeeze the life out of it, but that's not always what you're after maybe. The bad news is that you cannot get this or that plugin that will fix the mix, make it louder... it's more important to get to know how different parts of the spectrum inferfere and how you can remove parts of the spectrum without changing the sound too much. Try cutting the low frequencies on anything except kick and bass, you'll be amazed how much you can take out before you start to hear it.

Hope this helps a bit...

adding to at0m's suggestions, you can also keep the kick and bass out of each other's way frequency-wise.

So many thanks to Atomic, Tom, AndreD, ChrisWerner and wayne. cool atomic.. compressor is just a ADSR and it can squeeze the life of a sound. has anyone done sound engineering course?
Thanks again

never the less, the key to loudness is dynamics control.....

true, like are all other contributions.
So a conclusion could be, you get the loudest mix if you 1. compress and eq as good as possible, and 2. choose your important sounds in the human voice eq range.
Listen to that yelling loud disco style, and compare it to dark ambient with warm lows, disco will 'win' the loudness match even if the ambient song is much 'louder'.

Thanks garyb, hubird.

same ol' question. As I say all the time, try some overdrive. Distortion is not quite as obvious in the high range (the LOUDNESS range). So, create a non-linear response overdrive with a EQ->overdrive combo. The EQ should be a gradual curve, with more volume as you go higher in the frequency range. Experiment with different curves. You can get extremely warm bass and also treble that goes way beyond the usual limits this way.

Of course, the given is that you've already compressed and EQed your tracks to their maximum potential.

The ultimate goal is not to make it as loud as possible, but to make it sound as good as possible. The "loudness wars" have resulted in every record label telling their mastering engineers to make it as loud as possible so everything gets squashed to death with no dynamics. Now I have nothing against doing some mulitband compression on a final mix, just as long as it sounds good and you're not just compressing for the sake of being louder than the rest.
If you look at the waveforms of some current populsar music it's almost like a big square block of sound! Now in something like dance music that may not be a problem (although I've heard lots of dance tracks with way too much compression resulting in loss of dynamics too) but is this really the way to go for music? There isn't a volume knob on your amp for nothing you know!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2004-08-29 09:18 ]</font>

On 2004-08-29 08:44, kensuguro wrote:
same ol' question. As I say all the time, try some overdrive.

you wouldn't belive i put overdrive on a poor vocal and it sounds great.. got extra punch

but is this really the way to go for music? There isn't a volume knob on your amp for nothing you know!

Ironic thing about over-compressed, or super-loud mixes is that they tend to loose much of their punchiness when actually played loud. Actually, they sound BAD when played really loud. (loud, as in a theater) So, if you already know your stuff's going to be played really loud, like in a live performance, don't smash up your signal.

I have not had any extensive use with it yet, but the Sony Inflator does exactly what your seeking, it just adds that extra loudness, it squeezes that bit extra out with a clean sounding result.

I tried the demo of Inflator with Optimaster on a bunch of tracks that already had comps on them, you can be sure the gain was mucho hot

In some cases too hot, yet retaining its sound qualities.

Not much help I know but thought I would suggest...

Cheers!

Hey Ken, regarding the distortion... have you tried any harmonic shapers on the bass? Recently I had this bass that worked great at home, but it kinda disappeared in the car. I couldn't EQ it cos there was nothing above what was heared. Pitching it or LFP filtering it higher made the accent change and destroyed the whole groove, so these were not options.

I noticed that in commercial recordings, there's some higher frequency in the bass too, that makes a line that fits smaller radio's etc.
Couldn't compress it too much, cos again that would kill the groove. Found a sweet compromise in the end: I put a tiny bit saturation shaper on the bass, that works as compressor, then Squeeze'd it just a little with a higher harmonic setting. May not be necessary on bassguitar, but on this low freq synth it worked wonders. The bass was lots more defined now in the car, keeping it easy to flow on the tune. Distortion has kind of the same effect now that I think of it, but this is technique has the advantage over plain distortion that the added frequencies are harmonic (in tune), and less harsh than many distortion plugins.

Yes, garyb, dynamics are essential, but a compressor is not the only tool to change dynamics. Ken mentioned the distortion again, there's also gates and expanders... Quiter and irrelevant parts could be gated out, some pad could be expanded instead of compressed etc. Someone mentioned to put kick and bass in a slight different frequency range, which is a great tip. Sidechain compressing a bass by the kick overrules that spectrum difference limitation, prevents occasional phasing/wobling of the kick etc. I prefer to use it with quite low threshold (-30 or -40db?), fast attack and release (10-20ms?) and very low ratio, but that would depend on your track's situation and goal of course. Worth a try to reduce the energy peaks caused by the lows when the kick hits.

Have fun!

a compressor is not the only tool to change dynamics. Ken mentioned the distortion

Distortion is compression!




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: blazesboylan on 2004-08-30 02:01 ]</font>