PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi!

I'm about to purchace a scope project classic system. There's still one thing I want to know before I will invest my money on the card.

So I want to connect my hardware synths to the scope card via adat-box and use a scope mixer with some insert effects for my synthesizers and monitor and record these mixer channels (with the effects) in cubase SX2 independently on their own audio-tracks.

So can I do this and will there be latency in this operation?

Can I set the card to direct monitoring and software monitoring from SX2? If I have figured it out right there should be some latency if I use software monitoring but no latency if I use direct monitoring. Is this right or how is this handled in a scope system?

Then I would like to use some send-channels as effect sends to scope mixer at the same time when monitoring those synthesizers. Can I do this?

How about the XTC-mode? Does it works well? Do all the plugins work also in XTC-mode?

I hope somebody can answer these questions.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F5D on 2004-04-20 18:57 ]</font>

On 2004-04-20 18:56, F5D wrote:
Hi!

I'm about to purchace a scope project classic system. There's still one thing I want to know before I will invest my money on the card.

So I want to connect my hardware synths to the scope card via adat-box and use a scope mixer with some insert effects for my synthesizers and monitor and record these mixer channels (with the effects) in cubase SX2 independently on their own audio-tracks.

So can I do this and will there be latency in this operation?

Can I set the card to direct monitoring and software monitoring from SX2? If I have figured it out right there should be some latency if I use software monitoring but no latency if I use direct monitoring. Is this right or how is this handled in a scope system?

Then I would like to use some send-channels as effect sends to scope mixer at the same time when monitoring those synthesizers. Can I do this?

How about the XTC-mode? Does it works well? Do all the plugins work also in XTC-mode?

I hope somebody can answer these questions.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F5D on 2004-04-20 18:57 ]</font>

This is some list....

The first one - yes. You can record anything you do in the Scope environment in your recording application on individual tracks, using the supplied ASIO or WDM drivers.

There is always latency in computer operations!, but the Scope ULLI (ultra low latency interface) gives you near zero latency - so latency should not be audible!

The ASIO 2 drivers support direct monitoring - in general you will be able to monitor everything you could monitor if your system were based on outboard gear.

The same as above - routing in and out of Cubase gives almost endless possibilities, especially after the redesign of the Cubase engine (busses specially)

I personally use XTC mode alot and it works well. The plugins have some minor bugs - for example you can not type values in XTC mode. Anyhow - if you learn how to edit your xtcproject.pro file (well explained on Planetz) you can build up a very powerful in and out routing system, using the busses in Cubase. The mixers you have in the standard Scope environment can however not be used in XTC mode. All CW plugins are now XTC compatible, including synths but excluting the STS samplers. Some third party plugins support XTC as well (for exsample Spacef). You can however use non XTC plugins in the XTC mode by using the included FX - insert module...

i suggest you work in a traditional way and use sfp mode for "tracking",getting all your sounds together and "recorded". Xtc mode works really great for "mixdown" using cubases mixer and automation and the scope plugins for realtime mixes....

one can do things normally only possible in very expensive studios....

Hi F5D and Welcome to PlanetZ,

If I understand the question correct what you want to do is pipe in an outboard synth to SFP (the scope mixer) and record the audio into Cubase?

Simple as could be! The 1st thing you want to do is when thinking about Scope, is it all works the same as hardware, so in a sense the Scope mixer could be deemed an outboard desk, but heres the beatuty of it all

There are virtual routings that are done via ASIO and can be routed into Cubase and Cubase routed back into the mixer for seamless integration with your sequencer software, it gets so much deeper than just that but its impossible to explain what the Scope system can do, you need to realize it in person to be blown away..

What you would basically do is have the Scope mixer set up in the routing window and providing you have your ADDA connected via litepipe you would place an ADAT module in the routing window and then connect the virtual cables as if it were real hardware, and then the input of your adat channels will be playing into the scope mixer.

Now from the scope mixer you place an ASIO destination (this is the output into cubase) and how ever many output channels you have set up, cubase will automatically read these and show them as real input/outputs, its genious really.

So from there on the audio track you wish to write the synth line, you would simple set the input of that track to the coresponding scope channel that will be listed in SX.

Whats genious about all this is that this is done in realtime, zero latency, so from within SX you hear it played as it sounds and is recorded likewise.

Asfar as adding FX, theres a few ways to accomplish this but for now lets assume you are doing things the simple way, here are a couple examples.

1. You would open your mixer, select the track that the outboard is piped into via litepipe and place a send right into the channel, similar to SX or if you wish to conserve DSP you could add it as an aux send and have a few effects that can be used on all channels, the amazing part about this is that you here the effects in realtime, as far as I know CW cards are the ONLY cards able to effect audio coming in, where as most cards only effect audio coming out..

2. The other way would be similar to how you would typically work in SX. You could write the audio to a track in SX and then from the track info set the output of that particular audio track to a desired CW output, then the audio track is now routed directly into the scope mixer on its own channel and again you could apply effects in the same manner either as a direct insert or as a send.

The amazing thing is that there is no set way to do anything in Scope, you coukd rout anything anyway that you see possible, if it can be done in the real world it can be done with a Scope system, and the best part is the sound quality is top notch, all the effects, synths, mixers, EQs and most important all the free and purchasable 3rd party devices make it more than worth while to venture into the platform.

Hope that helps some, feel free to ask questions every one here at the Z is usually extremely helpfull from general questions to tweaking questions, the Z is sort of like a home support group for all the addicted folks.

Cheers!

On 2004-04-20 18:56, F5D wrote:
...If I have figured it out right there should be some latency if I use software monitoring but no latency if I use direct monitoring. ...

welcome F5D

just to complete the longer posts above (I'm a lame writer) :

yes, that's correct - you could call this pre-sequencer monitoring.

If you want to monitor some VSTI stuff, then the ASIO latency is added (and possibly a value depending on the native plugin itself).
You would route that via an ASIO out channel from SX back into the mixer's monitor path (various possibilities).

SX probably compensates the recording part of the latency.
The audible part depends on your personal preferences, as the signals are obviously delayed from each other.
For very precise apps you could provide each adat channel with a micro-delay, no big deal if you save it with your default project

There's a good chance you'll never run into this problem at all, as SFP synths and FX are of exceptional quality.
SFP and external gear complement each other perfectly

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-04-20 20:07 ]</font>

And for your hardware synths, apart the 0 latency, you have some really wicked filters and a superb modular environment where the sound can be further tweaked..all in real time, naturally

Hi F5D,

So I want to connect my hardware synths to the scope card via adat-box and use a scope mixer with some insert effects for my synthesizers and monitor and record these mixer channels (with the effects) in cubase SX2 independently on their own audio-tracks.

Yeah, the Scope fx are very good, I mean the built-in ones Good choice! You want to use SX as a multitrack recorder, don't you? People say it's good to have Scope's VDat (sold separately) to have all your audio inside the Scope environment and away from ASIO

Thank you guys very much! I made my decision and I will order a scope project classic. It seems to be right time to buy it too cause there's this brand new sfp4 OS and the card comes with so many high quality plugins.

I'll go for the mix & master pack instead of the synth & sampler. I'll be running the scope card with a TC Powercore pci. I had to sell my delta1010 because it's not compatible with the Pcore. This was one of the reasons I chose the CW Scope.

And yes, I'm gonna use the sx2 as a multi-track recorder. I just want to record my hardware synths in realtime with scope effects. Well it seems to be possible as you say. And yes, there are always these little latencies (maybe <0,5ms) with almost every digital effects processor, but that's ok.

I'll let you know when I have my system up and running.


Cheers.
F5D

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F5D on 2004-04-21 10:05 ]</font>

And remember you always find here a helping hand

hi F5D

"I just want to record my hardware synths in realtime with scope effects."

I prefere in most cases to record a clean track, and then record that track with effects.
Sometimes first take wouldn't do
...so just redo from the "clean" track

I think I may use some compression (from the scope mixer) before the signals come to sx2 but it's true that some other effects like reverb, chorus, phaser, delays etc would be better to put as send effects in cubase and record the inputs only with compression or something.

btw. Can you suggest a budget adat-box which would still be good what becomes to s/n ratings etc...? I was looking for the Behringer ADA8000 specs but cannot see the s/n ratio anywhere.

On 2004-04-21 15:12, F5D wrote:
I think I may use some compression (from the scope mixer) before the signals come to sx2 but it's true that some other effects like reverb, chorus, phaser, delays etc would be better to put as send effects in cubase and record the inputs only with compression or something.

samplaire

Yeah, the Scope fx are very good, I mean the built-in ones Good choice! You want to use SX as a multitrack recorder, don't you? People say it's good to have Scope's VDat (sold separately) to have all your audio inside the Scope environment and away from ASIO

Hi F5D

good(the best) choise Scope!!!

I don't know excactly about SX but the VST send effect that I'm familiar with, are much less than the excellent CW and 3th party plug-ins for Scope DSP boards.

as described above the Scope routing has endless passability's and you can very easy make a projekt for recording (clean) in Cubase, and have a project for mixing, where you playback the audio through the Mixer with all it effects and other possability's.

The Mixers from CW are GREAT!!!

I sure you ganna enjoy your SCOPE !!!]]

regards
Terranova-Amsterdam