PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Ok, this may be a lame question, but I honestly don't know the answer.

My background is primarily using digital mixers with built in FX (mostly reverb) and VST based FX. I understand the concepts of send / return, I just haven't had much chance to implement them never having used extensive hardware outboard gear.

I'm trying to figure out the best way of setting up Masterverb with the 2448 mixer.

A couple points:

1. I want the reverb returns in stereo, but I only see the sends and returns in mono.

2. I don't see any way to link send knobs to easily control them (i.e. 1 knob on my controller to both virtual send knobs)

2. I see no stereo sends, only mono - why is that?

It would make the most sense to have at least a few stereo send / returns for FX right? Am I stuck having to use up 2 AUX channels for setting up a single reverb?

How are you guys setting this up? Any suggestions would be great.

The aux sends in the 2448 mixer are mono, but the returns are stereo. It is specifically made that way for reverb purposes, although I don't see why they couldn't have made all the aux sends stereo. There is *one* stereo bus, the monitor mix.

I'd suggest keeping the aux buses all internal, for that way you don't have to have cables scattered everywhere, and all the controls will be automatable. Stereo channels in the mixer will be mixed to mono for the aux sends, so you don't have to use separate aux sends for one reverb.

I hope that all makes sense!

Shayne

With that in mind, it's starting to make sense. I was thinking the sends needed to be stereo as well.

It looks like I need to copy all my FX to the "plugins" folder? None of my usual devices show up there. Only folders for synths, samplers and plugins.

Of course you can also connect the sends in "dual mono", i.e. sacrificing another send and routing it to an FX's right input (You should then load the plugin in the routing window and connect it externally.)

At first, I couldn't get the whole internal / external part of the AUX sends in the 2448 mixer worked out, but after a couple RTFM sessions and trial and error, I got it.

I wish the PDF showed some real world examples. The defaut projects seem a bit over the top, but that's probably my needs.

It's all making much better sense now. I kept thinking the sends had to be stereo as well.

In the hardware world all sends are mono indeed, Sinix.
In fact there's reason enough for it
Not alone the original signal stays stereo, also most fx won't benefit from a stereo send.
Only if you're looking for a very 'natural' reverb it can make sense, but the result will differ from mono send just very subtle.

A natural room like a consert hall creates different early reflections to each side, the nearest wall will reflect first, but we are talking about milliseconds
Now let's say you have a extreme stereo sound with on the left and on the right side totally different sounds (which in fact is quite unusual).
A stereo send requires a reverb with true stereo inputs and true stereo processing of both sides, the reverb must use an algorhythm that can imitate natural stereo processing, treating each side differently.
Well, if you have that, you're a lucky man

Now lets say you have a well recorded piano piece of music, with every key placed in the stereo field as like you would hear it when you play the piano by yourself.
Even a grand piano isn't that broad that you can hear differences in early reflections in a natural 'room', let alone if you are the listener in the hall, or even at home.
And the reverb part itself has so much 'diffusion' you even won't hear a difference to true stereo processing.

The only reason for wanting a stereo-in reverb is when you want to place a piano part extremely out of the center AND want to see (hear) this back in the reverb.
Big deal, but not to me really.

Different it is with insert fx, coz here you let pass the whole signal through it.
That's why I would like to be every typical insert fx has stereo ins, like a distortion or a flanger, and some -thank Allah- have
True stereo (processing both sides differently) even doesn't make much sense at all with these kind of fx, you always can hang a stereo making fx behind the 'mono processing' one, like a soft chorus.

In short: you may be glad sends are in mono, it's the way hardware is, it's quite natural, it's easier and it keeps everything more cheap
cheerz



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2003-12-30 18:34 ]</font>

Hubird,

Thank you for the very detailed and thoughtful response.