Is it the End of Creamware?

Nikko · Post by **Nikko** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:16 am

Here is something that has been posted in a mailing list, translated by google in English. Any more info or details?

According to the German insolvency PAGE: district court Bonn, file reference: 99 IN 190/03 In the insolvency
procedure over the fortune in the trade register of the district court
victory castle under HRB 3632 registered CreamWare data processing
technology GmbH, William Oswald STR. 0/K1, 53721 victory castle,
represent franc Hendrick dog and Wolfgang Edmund wolf Roth by the
managing directors Line of business: Development and sales of hard and
software to 08.12.2003 with court the announcement of the insolvency
manager was received that mass inadequacy is present (§ § 208 to 210
InsO). 99 IN 190/03 District court Bonn, 09.12.2003 "

[ This Message was edited by: Nicolas Choukroun on 2003-12-23 05:21 ]

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:28 pm

Let's just hope their synths will become open source and someone can port them to DXi/VST/AU.

MiniMax can't leave the world!!

Shayne

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:47 pm

Dudes...

If u read the news dated 22-08-03 ( http://www.creamware.de/en/home/news/22_08_03.asp ) u would be less concerned.

now chill.

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:37 pm

Honestly, if Creamware went out of business tommorrow, the first thing I'd do is scramble to buy a PowerPulsar and somehow get my keys transferred. I intend to use this platform as long as humanly possible!!

(unless Creamware comes out with a better one)

coc999 · Post by **coc999** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:50 pm

i go to read the link and retain that :
extract of the creamware.de page (i hope no prob with the copyright )
"The company is now very likely to generate positive business results in the future."

A well know financial reality .
What to say ? i hope that some guyz was not ejected and if it is what happened i would like to thanks these people to have allowed me to produce some music

performance .............................

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:46 pm

It doesn't matter what they said in August. That was months ago and things have changed. Apparently they *didn't* produce positive business results.

CW's only hope is to get bought, like Steinberg, and continue doing business. Perhaps Noah sales will continue to increase if they get funded.

Shayne

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:04 pm

I may be thick as a brick ... or not fluent in german ...

But it seems to me that it's just a report that says : still in the red ... nothing more

No ?

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:16 pm

Right, this is nothing new. The date there appears to be 9/12/2003.

Incidentally, Nikko, what mailing list would be posting this kind of detailed information? Let's just hope someone isn't violating their NDA.

No point in speculation- wait for an announcement from Creamware.

-John

p.s. amusing how google translated Frank's last name

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:33 pm

your're certainly right with that assumption, but that's perfectly OK.
If you file for that chapter your balance must be deeeep red and it is almost impossible to come out with an even balance in 4 month.
A company like CW with so much R+D cannot generate that cashflow within such a short time.

The statement referred to is absolutely common (I read exactly the same words constantly in local news).
It just says there's not enough 'substance' to immediately pay all debts.
It does not yet say to close down and sell out, in fact it means there isn't anything to sell out.

For credit givers it means they loose their money on closedown.
If a promising businessplan can be set up, those might get their money back - it all depends on confidence in the company.
Some banks or suppliers may prefer to loose what they invested, if they have to invest too much in future to get the company profitable again.

A friend of mine with a 30% share in a (basically) healthy company is just going through this situation. His company cannot pay it's depts anymore because customers not paying their bills due to own bancrupty.
That's called a follow-up bancrupty.

The other shareholders prefer not to invest anymore and he alone cannot take over the shares (and depts), so he looses too.

let's just hope the best, Tom

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:42 pm

It is a difficult market, and unfortunately, people using Creamware bords, I mean most of them, are not proffesionals and so, have not enough money to be buying all their fantastic plugins, which many of us would, if we could.

I don't think Creamware is goning down, just like that... I just hope they don't change their mind about quality and high end performance, facing up problems, to sell more, for less.

R-type · Post by **R-type** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:56 pm

The fact that Creamware continues to release high quality new products seems to indicate a strong committmant to trading it's way out of trouble.

I think companies like Creamware will always struggle during economic downturns. Even when the economy is bad people have to buy food, power etc But what they can cut back on is extras like upgrading their audio production hardware/software.

I'm not really that worried.

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:58 pm

One thing that has occured often here on the West coast (USA) recently...when a company makes it through bankruptcy & downsizing it often comes out far stronger as a result (refocusing on core values & commitments, cutting the fat etc).

Let's hope...

[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2003-12-23 20:58 ]

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:02 am

On 2003-12-23 17:16, John Cooper wrote:
Incidentally, Nikko, what mailing list would be posting this kind of detailed information? Let's just hope someone isn't violating their NDA.

No point in speculation- wait for an announcement from Creamware.

-John

This entire thread just proves that negativity is contagious. Same over on Yahoo groups. Plenty of people speculating with insufficient information.

Like John said, let's wait on some official info and stop spreading negative hype.

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:26 am

Umm.... people?

I know that we're all very anxious about the future of CW, but I think this is all becoming very counter-productive.

I think our global economy is bad enough that just about every player is hurting. The amount of buyouts this year has extended beyond all 8 fingers and both thumbs, and at this point, people are going to start lowering themselves to dirtier tactics in order to get ahead.

Anyone who has read Sun Tzu's: Art of War can attest that the key to winning a war is to make your opponent internally weak before you attack.

An example of what someone might do to weaken their enemy is, say, release damning information about a particular company that's already outdated by several months but continues to cast doubt in people's mind about it's strength.

Keep in mind that NOAH has been well reviewed and is selling. The money made back from finally getting out the door will not just jump right into the till. There are still operating costs; you know tech-support, R & D, marketing, etc. who are working around the clock to keep the good times rolling.

Every dollar that comes in is going either to staff or creditors. If CW could afford to shut it's doors for several months and just rake in sales while incurring no costs, it might be close to being out of the red; that's all speculation mind you, I haven't the slightest idea of the actual numbers.

But seeing as how it still has to operate while it bails the water out, it'll take a bit more time, and a lot more faith from it's (potential) customer base.

I don't suggest that we play see-no-evil or anything, but this kind of fear-mongering among our own is actually quite harmful to the platform.

As CW tries to cast NOAH off into larger segments of the market stream, a lot of new users will (and have by the dozens) start poking around the Z to get info and such.

Certainly no one is going to feel confident about a purchase if we're all freaking out over news that's 'already been put to rest.'

In fact, if it begins to recirculate, it will only add weight to those who are already pointing their fingers and calling our platform dead.

We've got tremendous new products coming out from 3rd parties, and CW alike. Though there were differences in opinion on how certain features should be handled, Prodessey has been hailed as a good thing, and I've read several posts of people upgrading their systems and buying plugs. Almost all of them have had positive experiences.

We've even seen folks who hadn't touched their cards in years out of previous frustration only to be amazed at where the platform has gone in their absence. And they're now engaging the community with far greater confidence than when they first made their investment. And I think that alone is enough to calm our fears that CW is in danger of becoming irrelevant.

So I think we should drop this topic as we won't have an answer one way or the other until CW either calls to us for help, announces a buyout, or announces their return to the black.

Of course, if anyone from CW would like to address the resurgence of concern, I'm sure it would be well received.

Sam

Post by **garyb** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:17 am

period.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:06 am

Once I found out that the document was from September, I stopped freaking out. It's old news, and they can be in a completely different situation now. I'm going to relax and enjoy Christmas and MiniMax!

Shayne

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:11 am

Since I'm doing business directly with Creamware, I also get informed directly by the lawyer (administrator) handling the insolvency proceeding.
The last letter I got in september simply stated that nothing had changed regarding the status of the proceedings.
I have recieved no new information since then that could indicate a change...

I am however as worried about the future of Creamware as many of you guys are.

Kim.

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[ This Message was edited by: kimgr on 2003-12-25 01:37 ]

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:41 am

Are they leaving the radio telescope?

j9k · Post by **j9k** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:05 pm

it's christmas and they are probably busy getting ready for the namm show.

j9k

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:24 pm

If they can afford to get in....

Nah, I'm just kidding.