Marketing SFP. Your suggestions!?
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samplaire
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1. You don't like CWA;On 2004-03-16 13:34, d-x-l wrote:
haha
dear plantetz webhost~
it's supprising how those cw loyal army is still this loyal after 2 years.
cheers!:D
2. You don't like us;
Considering the 2 there is no reason for you to post here.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-03-17 04:03 ]</font>
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hubird
To get back on topic, I've seen some discussion of what people would like to see on Creamware's website but what about creamware in print?
For a while a few SoS reviewers were plugging CW cards by using them with many reviews, and there were even a few favorable reviews on Creamware's hardware. I think I've also seen a bit in Electronic Musician mentioning Creamware, and FM mag (as well as a few others) carry CW as well as 3rd party releases in their news section.
However, I haven't heard a peep from Keyboard Magazine and I think its one of the most common rags in the US (even in local video rental stores etc on the rack).
While articles aren't COMPLETELY scarce advertising seems few & far between to me. I realize this can be a budgetary issue, and having worked in the post production industry for a few years I DEFINATELY understand how some of the magazines almost become closed circles of their small market without someone actively pushing information to them. I would think that more visibility in magazines would do more to get Creamware out to people who aren't already 'in the know' and who are less likely to know someone who owns a CW card or hear about CW's products through word of mouth.
In other words I think (as Dxl has claimed) Creamware really DOES have a very strong userbase, what in the club & party 'scenes' we would call a 'core crowd' or 'core audience'. Word of mouth for Creamware's products is generally very positive as well, once the person behind the mouth has a better understanding of what's going on with SFP & their machine. This is the Secondary level of market penetration. However there's the TERTIARY markets that are only reached by marketing that reaches beyond our small circle, or people who happen to browse to the Creamware website.
One of the biggest untapped markets in my opinion is the US. There's are still many people in the US buying dedicated harddisk machines (not PT or Radar24 either) or integrated mixing & recording solutions (Tascam etc). Many of these people actually use the devices in tandem with a computer sequencer/DAW. I think getting some coverage of people over here producing US-based music and integrating SFP or noah into small & medium production environments would do a lot to give people a better idea of what Creamware cards actually do.
For a while a few SoS reviewers were plugging CW cards by using them with many reviews, and there were even a few favorable reviews on Creamware's hardware. I think I've also seen a bit in Electronic Musician mentioning Creamware, and FM mag (as well as a few others) carry CW as well as 3rd party releases in their news section.
However, I haven't heard a peep from Keyboard Magazine and I think its one of the most common rags in the US (even in local video rental stores etc on the rack).
While articles aren't COMPLETELY scarce advertising seems few & far between to me. I realize this can be a budgetary issue, and having worked in the post production industry for a few years I DEFINATELY understand how some of the magazines almost become closed circles of their small market without someone actively pushing information to them. I would think that more visibility in magazines would do more to get Creamware out to people who aren't already 'in the know' and who are less likely to know someone who owns a CW card or hear about CW's products through word of mouth.
In other words I think (as Dxl has claimed) Creamware really DOES have a very strong userbase, what in the club & party 'scenes' we would call a 'core crowd' or 'core audience'. Word of mouth for Creamware's products is generally very positive as well, once the person behind the mouth has a better understanding of what's going on with SFP & their machine. This is the Secondary level of market penetration. However there's the TERTIARY markets that are only reached by marketing that reaches beyond our small circle, or people who happen to browse to the Creamware website.
One of the biggest untapped markets in my opinion is the US. There's are still many people in the US buying dedicated harddisk machines (not PT or Radar24 either) or integrated mixing & recording solutions (Tascam etc). Many of these people actually use the devices in tandem with a computer sequencer/DAW. I think getting some coverage of people over here producing US-based music and integrating SFP or noah into small & medium production environments would do a lot to give people a better idea of what Creamware cards actually do.
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hubird
you're right Valis, there's a lot space to win, in fact all over the world, but specially in the US.
Advertising not alone is very expensive in magz like Keyboard Magazine, it's also hard to get full attention from the readers without reviews from the same magazin, as you seem to point out.
I hope you don't mind if I link your idea to my pleid to OS-X devellopment.
It would be a huge publicity stunt in terms of marketing and advertising when OS-X support is ready.
Imagine the free attention all the magz would spend to it in reviews.
All those magz are read by users of both platforms.
I won't be surprised if that would lead to a doubling of the number of mac users in short time., so the devellopment costs are compensated quicly.
A few assumptions are involved however:
1. support for OS-X is still planned (seems to be the case)
2. the PCI slot hardware/firewire issue will be solved in parallel (seems to have full attention of CWA)
3. the website must be renewed totally then (idem)
I guess free publicity now would be very welcom for CWA, and if OS-X support is unevitable in the future, why not do it now, along with the other hot topics like website and hardware devellopment?
cheerz
Advertising not alone is very expensive in magz like Keyboard Magazine, it's also hard to get full attention from the readers without reviews from the same magazin, as you seem to point out.
I hope you don't mind if I link your idea to my pleid to OS-X devellopment.
It would be a huge publicity stunt in terms of marketing and advertising when OS-X support is ready.
Imagine the free attention all the magz would spend to it in reviews.
All those magz are read by users of both platforms.
I won't be surprised if that would lead to a doubling of the number of mac users in short time., so the devellopment costs are compensated quicly.
A few assumptions are involved however:
1. support for OS-X is still planned (seems to be the case)
2. the PCI slot hardware/firewire issue will be solved in parallel (seems to have full attention of CWA)
3. the website must be renewed totally then (idem)
I guess free publicity now would be very welcom for CWA, and if OS-X support is unevitable in the future, why not do it now, along with the other hot topics like website and hardware devellopment?
cheerz
"sounds as good/better than pro tools and is cheaper and more fun to use"
put in some mentions of songs/soundtracks that were made with creamware products.
maybe get the latest one to show a mugshot and endorse the platform.
some well timed and well placed
full page ads designs by a pro ad company, later small ads put in NOT the back pages of the magazines.
make a "dummy" version of the SFP software people can download and try out even if the synths etc are "greyed out" this almost made me buy a nord modular
creamware has a thing that is "the best ever" which is the minimax. use it!
put in some mentions of songs/soundtracks that were made with creamware products.
maybe get the latest one to show a mugshot and endorse the platform.
some well timed and well placed
full page ads designs by a pro ad company, later small ads put in NOT the back pages of the magazines.
make a "dummy" version of the SFP software people can download and try out even if the synths etc are "greyed out" this almost made me buy a nord modular
creamware has a thing that is "the best ever" which is the minimax. use it!
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hubird
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King of Snake
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[edit] I know this is a bit late, but ...
I'm just very impressed (and surprised) that DXL still has enough secret loyalty to desire to express his opinion about what CWA can do to increase the popularity of their product ! Otherwise he wouldn't be here, right ?
It may not come across well, but it is useful to hear a voice which is not 'in love' with creamware. It is exactly such unconvinced people who are (we surely hope ?) going to increase the sales base of the platform.
A cautious 'cheers' DXL.
Will.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mr swim on 2004-03-22 13:52 ]</font>
I'm just very impressed (and surprised) that DXL still has enough secret loyalty to desire to express his opinion about what CWA can do to increase the popularity of their product ! Otherwise he wouldn't be here, right ?
It may not come across well, but it is useful to hear a voice which is not 'in love' with creamware. It is exactly such unconvinced people who are (we surely hope ?) going to increase the sales base of the platform.
A cautious 'cheers' DXL.
Will.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mr swim on 2004-03-22 13:52 ]</font>
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hubird
mr. Swim, I appreciate your open mind, but I have to combat the suggesting that dxl is kept outside because he would be an critical opponent.
That's not true.
He's just a troll, polluting every forum on planetz, like he did before on the CW forum, where he also got banned.
I will never speak to him directly, and I will always do my best to keep him away from planetz, as far as I'm permitted to do.
Speaking about myself, I like the debate, as the drummer video demos discussion recently showed, but I'm unarmed against irrationality and stupidity.
Every word about him is wasting time, as are these words.
I shut my mouth
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-03-22 19:11 ]</font>
That's not true.
He's just a troll, polluting every forum on planetz, like he did before on the CW forum, where he also got banned.
I will never speak to him directly, and I will always do my best to keep him away from planetz, as far as I'm permitted to do.
Speaking about myself, I like the debate, as the drummer video demos discussion recently showed, but I'm unarmed against irrationality and stupidity.
Every word about him is wasting time, as are these words.
I shut my mouth
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-03-22 19:11 ]</font>
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Guest
i'm sorry i don't think theres a way to cold down your anguish towerd me
i'm sorry for few less sells
but if you still hated me becuase I told newbies that how many poly and devices they can use in one pulsar2 two years ago (hows the sale during last two years?). I don't know what to say, your respond is, dxl is just a troll, don't listen to him, there are people who can make good music just record one insturment at a time.
you seem to enjoy trashing (rasist, age)(!!) me whenever you can, "but now you said every word with me is a waste of time, then plz stop trashing me so you can feel better."
since now CWA is more active and started asking for opinions from their users. it's always better to be open minded than closed~
good things just might happen to you all who hated me this year!
hahaha
cheers~
i'm sorry for few less sells
but if you still hated me becuase I told newbies that how many poly and devices they can use in one pulsar2 two years ago (hows the sale during last two years?). I don't know what to say, your respond is, dxl is just a troll, don't listen to him, there are people who can make good music just record one insturment at a time.
you seem to enjoy trashing (rasist, age)(!!) me whenever you can, "but now you said every word with me is a waste of time, then plz stop trashing me so you can feel better."
since now CWA is more active and started asking for opinions from their users. it's always better to be open minded than closed~
good things just might happen to you all who hated me this year!
hahaha
cheers~
d-x-l, you overestimate yourself and your meaning for humanity.
That 'hahaha - I'm back...' post names a few obvious things everyone could quote without even knowing the product.
Make it more powerful, make it cheaper, make it bla...
Hardly a contribution (for whatever), not even an opinion, just bla...
So what for ? It's like a dog p*ssing on each corner he passes: I been there
Noone hates you (here) and there's no army around - you're just annoying with your constant attempts to make a proof of your existence.
cheers, Tom
That 'hahaha - I'm back...' post names a few obvious things everyone could quote without even knowing the product.
Make it more powerful, make it cheaper, make it bla...
Hardly a contribution (for whatever), not even an opinion, just bla...
So what for ? It's like a dog p*ssing on each corner he passes: I been there
Noone hates you (here) and there's no army around - you're just annoying with your constant attempts to make a proof of your existence.
cheers, Tom
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John Cooper
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King of Snake
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Now that we are some days aways from the Messe, a little bump.
I really hope ( one more time and again !!
) that you'll make DP available for all the CWA cards owners since the more talented may not be the " richest ".
Everyone could give it a try and assess if it's worth the long hours spent sweating, if they can produce something, anything and like I said if they are hooked anyway they will have to buy more DSP if they start on a Luna for instance ...
Reaktor 4 costs 500 euros in NI shop, a Pulsar II around 900 euros in Europe, a Pulsar II with DP would be real competition, now with a PowerPulsar ... it's a big step financially.
" embrace the possibility to be a creator / developer on a powerful platform " also with a warning that's it will be very time consuming and results not guaranteed.
I'am sure you'll get lot of attention, curiosity, envy ...
Concerning the direct selling of cards, I searched for a Scope SRB in France / Europe ... couldn't find one in the mostly lousy online shops but I still have the phone numbers of those who don't have websites !
Phoning many music stores ? well good luck to me !
Soo I could certainly find one after some uncessary hassles or order it in the US, dumb, isn't it ? at least I'll have a card that has travelled a lot !
A little off topic but had to vent : I hope in the next version of SFP, you'll " fix " or find a solution so that the graphic load is alloted to the graphic card and not to the CPU.
For instance, I was making a patch with 3 Flexor's hyper control sequencers and making them cycling through the patterns : 80 % use of a 2.6 GHz AMD !!!!!!!!! there's definitely something plain wrong so that 48 moving faders eat a not too old CPU, this kind of " detail " doesn't help !!
I really hope ( one more time and again !!
) that you'll make DP available for all the CWA cards owners since the more talented may not be the " richest ".Everyone could give it a try and assess if it's worth the long hours spent sweating, if they can produce something, anything and like I said if they are hooked anyway they will have to buy more DSP if they start on a Luna for instance ...
Reaktor 4 costs 500 euros in NI shop, a Pulsar II around 900 euros in Europe, a Pulsar II with DP would be real competition, now with a PowerPulsar ... it's a big step financially.
" embrace the possibility to be a creator / developer on a powerful platform " also with a warning that's it will be very time consuming and results not guaranteed.
I'am sure you'll get lot of attention, curiosity, envy ...
Concerning the direct selling of cards, I searched for a Scope SRB in France / Europe ... couldn't find one in the mostly lousy online shops but I still have the phone numbers of those who don't have websites !
Phoning many music stores ? well good luck to me !
Soo I could certainly find one after some uncessary hassles or order it in the US, dumb, isn't it ? at least I'll have a card that has travelled a lot !
A little off topic but had to vent : I hope in the next version of SFP, you'll " fix " or find a solution so that the graphic load is alloted to the graphic card and not to the CPU.
For instance, I was making a patch with 3 Flexor's hyper control sequencers and making them cycling through the patterns : 80 % use of a 2.6 GHz AMD !!!!!!!!! there's definitely something plain wrong so that 48 moving faders eat a not too old CPU, this kind of " detail " doesn't help !!
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BingoTheClowno
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What video card do you have?On 2004-03-29 05:28, decimator wrote:
Now that we are some days aways from the Messe, a little bump.
I really hope ( one more time and again !!
Everyone could give it a try and assess if it's worth the long hours spent sweating, if they can produce something, anything and like I said if they are hooked anyway they will have to buy more DSP if they start on a Luna for instance ...
Reaktor 4 costs 500 euros in NI shop, a Pulsar II around 900 euros in Europe, a Pulsar II with DP would be real competition, now with a PowerPulsar ... it's a big step financially.
" embrace the possibility to be a creator / developer on a powerful platform " also with a warning that's it will be very time consuming and results not guaranteed.
I'am sure you'll get lot of attention, curiosity, envy ...
Concerning the direct selling of cards, I searched for a Scope SRB in France / Europe ... couldn't find one in the mostly lousy online shops but I still have the phone numbers of those who don't have websites !
Phoning many music stores ? well good luck to me !
Soo I could certainly find one after some uncessary hassles or order it in the US, dumb, isn't it ? at least I'll have a card that has travelled a lot !
A little off topic but had to vent : I hope in the next version of SFP, you'll " fix " or find a solution so that the graphic load is alloted to the graphic card and not to the CPU.
For instance, I was making a patch with 3 Flexor's hyper control sequencers and making them cycling through the patterns : 80 % use of a 2.6 GHz AMD !!!!!!!!! there's definitely something plain wrong so that 48 moving faders eat a not too old CPU, this kind of " detail " doesn't help !!
It's a Leadtek WinFast A180 DDR : geforce 4 and 64 MB Ram but I've read that it's the CPU that's taking care of the graphic load and when something is moving in the GUI, it's becoming desastrous and totally unacceptable because we are talking about a bunch of small moving objects.
I can handle some % of CPU use but 80 % !!?
Sorry about the off topic
I can handle some % of CPU use but 80 % !!?
Sorry about the off topic
that's the tradeoff for OpenSource and compatibility...
nothing special and not suprising at all - seriously, when I have to document cable installations I prefer an old 33 MHZ Mac which easily outperforms the embedded graphics in Office on my 1 Ghz Celeron.
In graphics you can program even more sh*t than in music, because the waiting is easier to stand than the pain of a bad sound
I'm not exactly shure, but someone mentioned those 'objects' you refer to are programmed in a Java like scripting language.
Probably the most questionable combination of all choices.
But it's not that far off topic, as a smooth and fast user interface is always much appreciated.
Looks like this is very difficult to change, as the wsippel's thread about 'Linux hackers...' illustrates.
You cannot transfer the GUI to another library (my guess would be at least 10-20 manyears of work).
Possibly someone could tune the current lib, as it's open source, but that's a tough one and not a quickie at all
cheers, Tom
ps: not intended as a rant against OpenSource - but usually one can't have all
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-03-29 20:26 ]</font>
nothing special and not suprising at all - seriously, when I have to document cable installations I prefer an old 33 MHZ Mac which easily outperforms the embedded graphics in Office on my 1 Ghz Celeron.
In graphics you can program even more sh*t than in music, because the waiting is easier to stand than the pain of a bad sound
it's not their size, but the number and organisation of objects and how they interact with foreground/background.On 2004-03-29 13:34, decimator wrote:
...and totally unacceptable because we are talking about a bunch of small moving objects...
I'm not exactly shure, but someone mentioned those 'objects' you refer to are programmed in a Java like scripting language.
Probably the most questionable combination of all choices.
But it's not that far off topic, as a smooth and fast user interface is always much appreciated.
Looks like this is very difficult to change, as the wsippel's thread about 'Linux hackers...' illustrates.
You cannot transfer the GUI to another library (my guess would be at least 10-20 manyears of work).
Possibly someone could tune the current lib, as it's open source, but that's a tough one and not a quickie at all
cheers, Tom
ps: not intended as a rant against OpenSource - but usually one can't have all
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-03-29 20:26 ]</font>