Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3:16:2 - anyone used these desks?

[valis]

I trust you'll put it to good use in the near future and share some results with us

I sure will. We don't have much in the way of outboard FX to hook up to it here, since a friend got loaned our Lexicon a couple of years ago & hasn't returned it. We've got the Spin Audio RoomVerb & FXdesigner as well as a cool multi-tap filter delay & top notch filter/EQ called Infiltrator on the Chameleon right enough. I'm also thinking about connecting some of the sends & returns to the luna AD/DA box on our smaller 6dsp system here, so there won't be a shortage of FX if we do that. My only concern is that it would probably be a better option sonically to be using some vintage analogue FX on the sends & returns, but that will have to wait.

I have 3 sends & 2 returns on my board dedicated to Scope i/o, as well as an AES connection between my main machine's RME multiface & the Pulsar2/Scope board for 'digital' sends. I like the fact that I can flexibly mix/route sends & returns as I see fit with this setup, my outboard fx don't get NEARLY as much use (though I would like to have a Kurzweil Rumour or an Eventide unit someday which would certainly see more use).

[greenbluegold]

If you've got the room for it, I'd definitely go for an older pro desk. Back when I didn't live in one room tenement apartment I had an old studiomaster, which was home/project studio level back in the 80s but sounded pretty nice. Now I've got zero space for something like that today, unless I set it up on it's end and mixed sideways.

The mix wizard I use is a z3. Like I said, it excels at flexibility in a small space, and sounds decent enough to use for monitoring keyboards, live dubbing and recording electronic instruments. I wasn't fully satisfied with how it handled electric guitars or acoustic instruments. The channels on it are removable, but the electronics are surface mount. They're definitely not sparkly and probably won't last 50 years, but are a fine choice for particular situations.

[Shroomz~>]

I have 3 sends & 2 returns on my board dedicated to Scope i/o, as well as an AES connection between my main machine's RME multiface & the Pulsar2/Scope board for 'digital' sends. I like the fact that I can flexibly mix/route sends & returns as I see fit with this setup, my outboard fx don't get NEARLY as much use (though I would like to have a Kurzweil Rumour or an Eventide unit someday which would certainly see more use).

Yeah, some Eventide pitch, pitch delay & harmonizer FX would be nice to have. Their new harmonizer stomp box style unit looks interesting for the price.

[Shroomz~>]

If you've got the room for it, I'd definitely go for an older pro desk. Back when I didn't live in one room tenement apartment I had an old studiomaster, which was home/project studio level back in the 80s but sounded pretty nice. Now I've got zero space for something like that today, unless I set it up on it's end and mixed sideways.

You could always hang a desk from the ceiling upside down on a pulley rig & lye underneath it on a reclining chair.

[Shroomz~>]

Heads up for anyone UK based that might be interested in a Soundtracs Topaz desk. It's a bute !!

[valis]

Yep, that's exactly the desk I wouldn't mind upgrading to. Better components & Pre's, and a better meter bridge, same routing otherwise. Too bad I'm not in UK to check it out. Also funny he calls it a 48 channel, it's really only 24 strips with the tape return on each strip offering an additional input.

[Shroomz~>]

The seller's genuine enough, but he's made a few mistakes. For a start, he hasn't included 'Topaz' in the item Title or description, so he's potentially losing out on people that might be specifically searching for a Topaz. Silly boy.

[valis]

Oh I wasn't suggesting he wasn't on the up & up. The tape monitor returns are why I like the format of these desks.

[Shroomz~>]

The Soundcraft desk arrived in one piece yesterday, but I haven't been able to test if it's working ok yet unfortunately because it's inputs & outputs are all in a format that I don't have cables for... grrrr It basically uses a reversed hot & cold pin format, so the XLR mic ins & XLR mix outs for example are cold on pin 2 & hot on pin 3. The balanced line inputs have the same reversed hot & cold thing going on as well, so I'm basically going to need to make custom cables when I have the parts & time - just to even test the thing. Then if it's working I'll need to make a full set of cables to hook it up for use.... Bugger.

[garyb]

hmmm, yeah. british console.

just get out the soldering iron...

[Shroomz~>]

I don't have all the parts atm unless I start butchering other cables (which I hate doing). It's no big deal really except that I can't test it for faults right away or hear how it sounds.

[garyb]

so just do a couple of cables. you don't need to butcher them! just swap pin 2 and 3 on one end of one cable.

have you tried it with your power amp? most pres and synths won't care if positive or negative is related to ground on an audio signal. the mic certainly won't. it's just a phase thing. there are some devices which won't play together if positive and negative are switched in relation to ground, but there shouldn't be any damage. there is no standard! most UK desks are(were) pin 3 hot and most US(and European continent i believe)) desks are pin2 hot. as long as both units' system ground is seperated from the audio ground(most better stuff is), you won't even know that the connections are swapped.

the worst i've ever seen from connecting a pin2 hot console to a pin 3 hot(QSC amps are American as are Crests but they're pin 3 hot, go figure) is no/low and distorted sound. as long as you don't leave it like that for several hours, you shouldn't have any real problems. this was only a problem if one end or the other(amp or console) was unbalanced. with balanced gear pin 2 or 3 hot won't really matter, except when one device is in parallel with another oppositely wired device.

it would also be really easy to open the console up and swap pin2 and 3 and tip and sleeve on all the connectors. then you'd be well on your way to being a real engineer. it'd make more sense than buying stuff...

[Shroomz~>]

so just do a couple of cables. you don't need to butcher them!

... It's just an expression I use instead of something like 'robbing Peter to feed Paul'.

I could just fire the balanced mix out from one of our digital desks straight into it, but I was a bit wary just in case. Btw, maybe you can tell me this - the phantom power switches on the rear aren't marked & the manual doesn't specify whether up or down position is phantom power on. I'd rather not start poking around with a multimeter until a later date.

Good idea about switching the pins on the sockets inside the console itself btw. - I'm going to have to open it up asap anyway to investigate what's going on with a modification it's had in whatever broadcasting studio it came from (it definitely came from broadcasting judging by the routing naming stickers on it's panel). There's a non-standard detachable loom cable of 6 XLR sockets coming out of the bottom (the desk has rack ears & must have been rack mounted). My first guess is that it's an xtra 4 bus outs & an xtra stereo mix out, but that's pure speculation.

About buying cables or stuff for making them - I was going to need to buy or make some cables anyway, but just haven't got round to sorting it out yet as I've been busy.

[garyb]

down should be on, but my 1600 is a little different. it has phantom on each channel(at the top of the strip).

if you go out of your digital desk, you should go into the line in, not the mic in.

the 1600 has all it's outputs on the bottom, inputs on the back...

[Shroomz~>]

On the 200 series (8-4-2 version), channels 1-8 on the rear look like this -

S200rear_channels1-8.jpg (46.56 KiB) Viewed 3820 times

the power switches are the phantom power on/off for each channel, but I've got no idea which way is which atm.

[garyb]

i'd say "on" is up, with the switch towards "pwr".

the easy way to tell would be to plug a condensor mic in and check for level in the meters with the switch in both positions...

[valis]

Keep in mind I don't have the same desk, but the pins are swapped here as well. The only way I can actually even tell pins are swapped, is when I have something from the desk sent to the dj mixer and I forget to mute the dj mixer coming back into the desk, it will cancel itself out! (dj mixer returns via XLR <> XLR, xlr out from the mixer and xlr into the desk) Otherwise in practice I've had no issues...

Excepting microphones, I use the line-ins for everything I don't want to add "grit" to. In practice I've left 2 of my 8 outputs from the RME on XLR, the rest go to line-in. The 6 dsp Scope card has XLR out, from which I use XLR to 1/4" TRS into the line-ins on the desk, and that is actually the hottest piece of gear running into the line-ins. Most of my synths go to line-in, with the exception of a pair of outputs on the Virus. The 2 outputs from the Virus that go to XLR are run through a DI converter first, so that pair winds up being quite beefy/gritty sounding, the rest of the synth connections are all unbalanced as the synths are unbalanced.

[Shroomz~>]

i'd say "on" is up, with the switch towards "pwr".

That's what I think myself as well. Seems logical.

[Shroomz~>]

Keep in mind I don't have the same desk, but the pins are swapped here as well. The only way I can actually even tell pins are swapped, is when I have something from the desk sent to the dj mixer and I forget to mute the dj mixer coming back into the desk, it will cancel itself out! (dj mixer returns via XLR <> XLR, xlr out from the mixer and xlr into the desk) Otherwise in practice I've had no issues...

Excepting microphones, I use the line-ins for everything I don't want to add "grit" to. In practice I've left 2 of my 8 outputs from the RME on XLR, the rest go to line-in. The 6 dsp Scope card has XLR out, from which I use XLR to 1/4" TRS into the line-ins on the desk, and that is actually the hottest piece of gear running into the line-ins. Most of my synths go to line-in, with the exception of a pair of outputs on the Virus. The 2 outputs from the Virus that go to XLR are run through a DI converter first, so that pair winds up being quite beefy/gritty sounding, the rest of the synth connections are all unbalanced as the synths are unbalanced.

Right, thanks Valis. So as Gary also suggested, I needn't necessarily have to make cables with the hot & cold pins crossing over. I'm gonna try it with a mic tonight.

cheers,
Mark

[valis]

Think of it this way, if the phase is flipped on everything, what could be out of phase?