Brexit

[Nestor]

The “fake program” called “fake news” is, unfortunately, taking place. It is everywhere and in many languages. Unfortunately, many REAL NEWS sites are now threatened. If they keep pushing this way, this could cause unprecedented distress in people against the NWO. When will these guys understand that the more they repress us the more we are going to fight back?

[pastor]

It's just a black flag operation from Alex Jones (or dare i say, Bill Hicks?) to sell more products and draw the sheep into his flock.

[Nestor]

This is an interesting read of what is going on in Germany, to say the least, really sad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-LhfKKgncg#t=155

[pastor]

What is interesting about it, and what is sad? I would love to hear your views.
To me, its just a summary of their own articles, written by intellectuals such as Paul Watson and Pamela Geller. Its note really accurate either, but i guess noone expected that.

[garyb]

it's not that i am arguing, but what is it, that is inaccurate, exactly?

i agree, there's no sense in panic.
there's also no sense in assuming everything is good and that those in charge are always doing their best for humanity.

[pastor]

There is alot to go over, thats why i asked Nestor what he finds sad and interesting, so we can go into the specifics. But we can start 10 seconds into the video, where he claims the 400000 crimes commited by these refugees. compared to 2014, there were approx 92000 more crimes committed by immigrants than in 2014. There is no mentioning that even if the number of immigrants rose by 440%, crime only rose by 79% in this segment. Syrians, Which consisted of nearly half of the refugees, was behind aproximatly 24% of the crimes, while in example people from the Serbia, which has not much to do with the middle eastern wave, was about 2% of the immigrants but did 13% of the crimes. To be a bit blunt, crime rate rose more amongst german citizens themselves than among immigrants from Syria.

Most Crimes is also minor stuff such as riding a bus without a ticket etc. Not exactly shocking behaviour for people without much money. There was murders as well, mostly among the refugees themselves, allthough 1 german was killed by an immigrant in 2015. Speaking of murders, if the guy speaking is in the US, he is located in a country where you are 6 times more likely to get murdered than if he where located in this terrible Germanyplace. Im not even mentioning homocide rates in south america, where i guess Nestor is from. I guess its easier to look at some external fairytale and blaming refugees rather than looking around your own surroundings.

Some people find it shocking that more crimes are committed when population rises. Some nationalities are overrepresented, that is true. But blaming the muslim culture, as Nestor also has stated even 15-year olds know cant coexist with european culture, is a bit shallow, in lack of better words.

PS: the presenter states this has been happening "since Germany opened their borders to cultural enrichment", whitout stating when that was, so its a bit hard to be consistent with numbers for me. I suspect the 400000 crimes he refers to includes the 200000 crimes of refugees being there illegally, but its hard to know as he has no references whatsoever.

[garyb]

thanks for that.
that is proper debate to my mind.

there are certainly problems when an ethnic group has a way of living that has been shaped over the centuries has another ethnic group with other ways of doing things placed in it's midst. i don't think that people are generally evil, so everyone CAN work it out, but to say that it's not something that can lead to tragedy on both sides isn't very real to me. i've seen these problems between people first hand. i'm sure that both sides exaggerate to make their points, though.

[pastor]

Sure "both sides" exaggerates, i agree. I am not claiming Germany is doing everything right, but i try to bring in some perspective. There are challenges with immigration and integration for sure, and there are both good and bad people coming across our borders, just as there are good and bad people already in the country they immigrate to. But i am not sure immigrants, that being from the recent wave or being kids born of immigrant parents are so fond of constantly being reminded "they are incompatible with Europe", "proven" by videos such as the one i commented on.

And take this last sentence for what it is, i might be exaggerating
Part of this group of immigrants are also musicians, and my guess is they don't come to planetZ to be reminded they are supposedly incompatible with Europe (and apparently the rest of the world).

[garyb]

it looks to me like you are concerned with bigotry and loathing, which i can agree with.
i don't think that wrecking other people's countries and then moving them somewhere else is a good way to do things. i'm never against immigrants. i don't think that unchecked immigration is good for anyone either. there's a difference between people and ideas, at least in my book. i can be against ideas without being against people.

[Nestor]

it looks to me like you are concerned with bigotry and loathing, which i can agree with.
i don't think that wrecking other people's countries and then moving them somewhere else is a good way to do things. i'm never against immigrants. i don't think that unchecked immigration is good for anyone either. there's a difference between people and ideas, at least in my book. i can be against ideas without being against people.

I feel like facing up a mirror in your words here, equilibrium is the way, agree totally.

Now, I have to say Pastor it is exactly like Hubird is, it is even hard to think he is not the same person with a duplicate account through a proxy server, so to say... He is somebody who “already has the answers before you rise the questions”, it makes no sense. He is in a “hard preconditioned stated of mind”, so whatever you may say will be denied regardless.

That is exactly the point! Yes. He would not differentiate between “people” and “ideas”. He is mad a “people”, independently of what their ideas are. This is observable and proved through reading the forums, as everything I may say will be rejected WITHOUT analysis, even if it makes total sense and it has been proven by facts.

I don’t really care about what his points are, honestly, my interest goes down and down with people like this. He makes me feel the exact same feeling Hubird does, that is, absolute indifference, because every topic and every point becomes a fight, not a conversation with a final understanding. I would not give him any credit or importance, it is a waste of time, just like Hubird was, it is not worth reading, there is nothing to be learned, and as I understand now, neither worth answering.

[Nestor]

The Trump revolution is pretty amazing! Where is it going now? He is acting like a real president I would say. What do you think is going to happen from now and on? The NWO doesn't seem to be happy about it.

[garyb]

well, if his appointments are who some of them appear to be, Trump will be more of the same, just a different crew.

one good thing is that even though the news story that the CIA believes that Russia stole the election for Trump is quite fake(if the CIA document is secret, and the source of the leak is secret, then how can we verify it's existence? at least Wikileaks provides the documents...), he's still not in favor of being at war with Russia. that has to be ok for everyone, i guess...

[pastor]

Agree, I am curious about the appointments as well. i can't see how figures like this "Mad Dog"-dude or Rex Tillerson is going to do much good.

Oh, and by the way Nestor, I am not Hubird. I know you didn't directly say I was him, but i just wanted to clarify.

[Nestor]

he's still not in favor of being at war with Russia. that has to be ok for everyone, i guess...

Definetely! That is the best part of it, fortunately.

[Nestor]

As we speak, new military operations, many more troops, more heavy arsenals going up into Syria! The problem between Russia and USA is not relinquishing. It is like if Trump was not considered to be the next president by the government itself, everything is moving as if the present USA administration were to be the same one next year, pretty curios signs…

[garyb]

that's how it works. Trump isn't in office yet.

"Mad Dog" is a good guy, if he's on your side. he is an old-fashioned honest soldier. other countries might not like him, but the good thing is that he's not likely to be two-faced or wishy-washy.

[pastor]

I see Goldman Sachs will be well represented. Exiting appointments!

[garyb]

I see Goldman Sachs will be well represented. Exiting appointments!

they're always around, it seems....

[Sounddesigner]

well, if his appointments are who some of them appear to be, Trump will be more of the same, just a different crew.

But also Trump can't choose only complete outsiders for his Cabinet because truthfully you need some people with experience to keep the Government afloat properly. Some of the Generals and establishment-politicians are needed. With regards to the billionairs chosen; sometimes billionairs are geniuses that's why they have that type of money. If it were easy to be a billionair we'd all be one . There are millionairs who work as hard as they could all their life to increase their wealth to billions but never do cause it's nearly impossible. If the billions are ill-gotten then sure that's not genius but if the billions are earned the right way than that is high-intelligence all day (unlike career politicians who truly are often incompetent and really never accomplished much in life, their wealth is made threw Kleptocracy/Cronyism and some have the nerve to act like know-it-alls.). I prefer a billionair like Trump going to Washington than broke people like the Kleptocrats Clintons who go to Washington with no money but come out worth $250-Million. People who already have a lot of money may not be bought off as easily and may make better trade deals, etc simply cause they have business-sense unlike career-politicians who never truly have accomplished anything and when it comes to business deals don't know what they are doing. Trump did pick some outsiders and tho I would've liked a few more outsiders I'm more concerned with the end results.

Trump was right when he stated he'd rather have people who truly accomplished something rather than someone who never built anything or no major accomplishments in their fields or causes. He chose people who are qualified in some regard and are well accomplished. I did not like all of Trump's choices but ultimately one has to accept it and let him do it his way cause if he fails after doing it someone elses way he's still going to get full blame but it will hurt more. If we want success and no excuses we have to let him do it his way and just keep our eyes on the results. Trump is repeatedly underestimated and yet he constantly delivers good results. Trump has accomplished great things as a businessman, he has accomplished great things in Reality-show TV, he has accomplished great things in the Republican primary, he has accomplished great things in the general Election, he has accomplished great things as a person/father since his children seem to be well raised. Trump does act like a buffoon at times and he does say things that can fairly be interpreted as racist, sexist, etc but under that immature persona is a very intelligent man in operation . He's a paradox in that he's a wise-fool, but none-the-less he is well accomplished and his detractors in the political world should know better by now than to continue to underestimate him. Americans are not stupid we see the buffoon side of Trump, it's just Americans also see the otherside to him as well. We're not a stupid nation we just play one on Internet from time to time .

Also Trump has to make some Cabinet picks that keep the Establishment happy. This is unfortunate but a reality, thus must be done. These type of picks have to be done for two obvious reasons:

1. Why would Trump further anger the establishment by not making such picks when the Election process is not over yet cause the Electoral College members have not chosen Trump yet . If Trump angers too many establishment and don't unify with them then they may join the democrats and try to steal this Election from Trump by bogusly influencing the Electors to not vote for Trump. This has never happened but is possible and Trump is aware of it I'm sure.

2. Once Trump is officially elected he has to work with those in Wahington and like all relationships there must be compromise in order to get anything done. Since the people re-elected some of those establishment Trump has to work with them. Trump can only play the cards the people dealt him. Some of his picks were to appease the establishment wich he has to do to some extent or they will fight him on everything he tries to accomplish. The swamp isn't going to willingly let you drain it so one has to work with it to some extent to get anything done. Our political system is set up to be about compromise to a extent and to force politicians to work together. That's how it's always been and how it will always be. Great things can still be accomplished tho.

one good thing is that even though the news story that the CIA believes that Russia stole the election for Trump is quite fake(if the CIA document is secret, and the source of the leak is secret, then how can we verify it's existence? at least Wikileaks provides the documents...), he's still not in favor of being at war with Russia. that has to be ok for everyone, i guess...

This Russian hack stuff is just another desparate attempt by the democrats to steal a Election. Hillary's camp is now requesting that the Electoral College members see the CIA intel info on Russia hacking to try to persuade them to not choose Trump. Even if they were successful and stole the Election the USA democracy would be completely de-legitamized going forward and such likely would ultimately destroy this country. It's funny that when Republicans claimed that Hillary's server was likely hacked by a foreign government the response was that no eveidence of this was found and wasn't expected to be found cause often foreign governments are so good that a trail is not left, but when it comes to the democrats claiming Russia hacked the elections now those foreign governments aren't so good and evidence was left . We should determine wether Russia hacked the democrats computers and Election machines, etc AFTER the Electoral College chooses Trump to remove politics out of the equation. Waiting one more week to fully investigate should do no harm, unless this is all about political agenda (wich it is).

Russia might have hacked but that should change nothing with regards to this election and the fairness of Trump's victory. News agencies have always had unsavory whistleblowers with bogus agendas give them stolen documents/illegal-info why complain about a distastefull source now? I'm not saying we shouldn't investigate and should not bring proportional consequences to Russia if they are guilty, i'm saying let the CIA privately deal with that and the Media should do as they always done and that's be happy and thankfull that they got revealations of the dirty-deeds. Americans like myaelf don't fully like what Edward Snowden did and if the Russians are guilty of hacking I don't like that but still I am glad to have the info that both revealed. If we only accept whistleblowing from angels we'd almost never learn about government corruption, thus never really correct the government. There was a snakish source who ILLEGALLY released info about Trump's taxes but the media didn't seem to care that the law was being broken. The government and the media should stop with the corruption rather than focus mainly on who's telling on them. The people do have a right to know what's going on so distastfull sources aren't completely bad.

The democrats are going to great lenghths to try to desparately steal this election. They know this was the most important election of our times since the winner get to make multiple Supreme Court picks. They believe Obama was close to FORCING us to be a far left Liberal nation and that all he accomplished is about to be undone. They know that since they could not FORCE this country to change now the reverse will happen wich is that the democrats will be forced to change their platform since the people have broken free and democracy has over-powered their political agenda. When you look at the House the Senate the Presidency, etc the democrats have very little political power and may be slowly dying if they don't change; unfortunately despite the people resoundingly rejecting the democrats ideology many of them still are fighting change. They desparately want a immoral Socialist Society even tho the people rejected this. We all have our opinions but what the people vote for on election day is what matters and the final word, and the people have spoken loud and clear with their rejection in multiple elections in recent years.

EDITED

[jksuperstar]

I'm not sure there is much of a "right way" in Trump's billions. His ploy to build anything was to create two companies. One served as the owner of the building throughout construction until it was complete. Then declared bankruptcy so it didn't have to pay contractors. Then the second company swings in to buy it all cheap. Ask the unpaid workers about those contracts. Dirty business and self aggrandizement make billions. And after years of dirty dealings when your ego needs a boost, you go join the WWF.