When overclocking unlocked chips, beware!

[tlaskows]

You're in luck! Because the cheap computers seem to work better with Scope

-Tom

[Nestor]

We actually have way more hardware power than we can use.

While gamers push forward development for fps us audio guys dont have enough clout to make DAW developers make thier own OS or at least streamline ASIO.

My latest NVMe rig reveals the same ASIO deficiencies as I experienced using cheap ass MX100 SSDs.

ASIO craps out after so many MIDI tracks with real time overdubs.
So I go buy a pair of Intel 750s.
Same problems.

So I end up with 50% of RAM used.
40% of CPU.
25% of memoery sub system bandwidth.
30% of DSP.

Scope DSP is the only hardware left I can push harder.
ASIO can run at its maximum using the cheapest RAM cheapest SSDs and
an i5 CPU instead of the i7s.

My next build will be incredible cheap.

Lessons after wasting a few large.......

Common, don’t spoil my happiness now that for the first time in my DAW history, I go big...

[tlaskows]

I wouldn't say 4790k is big. It's not much faster than the old 4770k

If you want big, get the $5000 16 core Xeon...

-Tom

[dawman]

Hey Nestor hope all is good down there.

I am only referring to audio work.
I always liked the fastest the lowest watt, etc.etc.
Many builds in the last 5 years.

If you need more than audio go for it.
But I am going back to stock low watt i5s.

Just never use the bandwidth anymore.
And when I did it was not able to ever go above 40%.
ASIO just craps out, same with the memory subsystem.

I can reach ridiculous speeds with these NVMe devices but they still don't do much more
for audio once you get over 800MBps.

Kontakt can run tons of Instruments on Banks using a measley MX100 that cost me 80 bucks.

Mans gotta know his limitations.

[tlaskows]

Hey dawman,

What do you mean ASIO craps out? I just did a test a couple of days ago on the PCI cards. 32 channels going into Sonar at lowest latency and it was able to record them all at the same time. I can try all 64, but I think it will be fine.

-Tom

[tlaskows]

Yeah, I just tested. 32 stereo tracks going through ASIO into Sonar Professional and I threw in 4 Divas with 16 poly each. Barely touched the CPU! Recorded without a hitch. So when does it become problematic?

-Tom

[dawman]

I see it when using lots of real time streaming of samples.
Audio track counts is what ASIO was really intended for.
Triggering large RAM Buffered instruments.
Seems as though this became popular after the recording/streaming format was already in play.
Gigastudio was GSIF and while not really made as a recording protocol was far better at streaming samples and is still used as a mastering software for some folks.
The big cirque du soleil Beatles show at the mirage used Gigastudio to re record the original masters. Sound great and the masters are stashed in the mirage casino vaults.
But pyramix and saw studio are used still.ASIO DAWs are probably just as popular.

But GSIF in Scope can take full glossaries up and down a keyboard with sustain on. 1000s of voices without a single hiccup.

Wish we could do that with ASIO.
ASIO is really stable though and won't crash.
Just acts like a hardware sampler when full polyphony kicks in the voice stealing algorithms.

[tlaskows]

I am not sure what you need 1000s of voices for? I never use more than 16 tracks at a time (well at least in the past).

-Tom

[dawman]

Just 1 finger on my K4 can be 48 voices.
Depending on the instrument.
7 tracks of MIDI then real time live overdubs start chewing up sample voices.
ASIO sees this as track counts probably.
Then that is a high mixture of random iops and sequential reads.
Definitely a workstation load.

Video workstation loads are much bigger but do not choke.
Leads me to believe ASIO needs a new compilation or at least SSE4 optimizations.
After all SSE3 took DAW developers forever to catch up.

[tlaskows]

I just looked up the K4 on google. The thing is a monster! And less than 2k, that's a very good deal. I paid around that for my M3 88 and it doesn't have 8 MIDI outputs. I am saddened

-Tom

[Nestor]

Well, sure, there is even an 18 core Xeon right now for about 3.500 USD each, and there are MOBOs that support even four of these beasts and more than 500 GB of SDRAM! What a DAW!

Anyway, when I say BIG, I mean big for me… and you always mean bigger in relation with something smaller, that is to say, all the computers I have owned before. It is for me the first time to go actually into a CPU that is one of the big boys. I have always build computers that were about 30 to 35% of what the market was offering at this moment. The 4790-K is about 70% or so today.

[dawman]

I just looked up the K4 on google. The thing is a monster! And less than 2k, that's a very good deal. I paid around that for my M3 88 and it doesn't have 8 MIDI outputs. I am saddened

-Tom

Don't be sad, be happy.

Soniccores' mighty XITE-1 has Solaris, and the deadly K4 as thou preparest for battle.


upload images free

[tlaskows]

I have the Solaris for Scope! Honestly haven't played around with it too much. I don't like too many choices cause I get confused easily

-Tom

[Nestor]

Jimmy, I like the way you have colored coded your cables, I love tidiness for these kinds of things, it makes life so much easier.

[Bud Weiser]

We actually have way more hardware power than we can use.

While gamers push forward development for fps us audio guys dont have enough clout to make DAW developers make thier own OS or at least streamline ASIO.

My latest NVMe rig reveals the same ASIO deficiencies as I experienced using cheap ass MX100 SSDs.

ASIO craps out after so many MIDI tracks with real time overdubs.
So I go buy a pair of Intel 750s.
Same problems.

So I end up with 50% of RAM used.
40% of CPU.
25% of memoery sub system bandwidth.
30% of DSP.

Scope DSP is the only hardware left I can push harder.
ASIO can run at its maximum using the cheapest RAM cheapest SSDs and
an i5 CPU instead of the i7s.

My next build will be incredible cheap.

Lessons after wasting a few large.......

Thank you,- very interesting observations !

But what´s up when theoretically maxing out XITE-1 w/ SCOPE and a lot of SAT connection hungry devices communicating w/ host domain CPU and RAM ?
In that case, I always thought socket 2011 Intel processor like this ...

https://www.alternate.de/Intel%28R%29/X ... =7&lk=8536

... natively supporting PCIe 3.0 and USB3, offering quad channel memory controller, 10MB L3 cache and more PCIe- lanes than any consumer i5 and i7,- might help.

And now we have socket 2011-3 meanwhile ...

Am I wrong ?

Bud

[Bud Weiser]

I have the Solaris for Scope! Honestly haven't played around with it too much.

-Tom

It´s (unfortunately) not the same than Solaris in hardware.

Bud

[dawman]

Yo Bud.
The only thing I ever saw since we hit 3GHz to give any extra oomph to a PC is the cache on the CPU, if it's well designed, if it shares too much gunk making audio slow.etc.
Bloomfield i7s were not that much better than a Wolfdale E8600 from the Dual Core Conroe era,

The only thing I see that consistently gives a better advantage since we hit 3GHz is related to memory.
Cache is basically the first leg of memory.
2 Cores using the same cache design are better than 4 Cores as there's no SSE instructions to make better use of the cache from a previous design.
So it is now slower as it must take in twice as many instructions since the core count has doubled.
Going from 4MB L3 cache to 6 and 8MB L3 cache gave me more instances of Time based FX like reverb and delay without gagging.

So if I were to build again for Native, which I seem to be departing from more and more, I would go for the upcoming Xeon E3 1585 v5 CPU.
The GFX are the supreme Iris Pro 4k, but also comes with 64MB's of Level 4 cache.

That cache can be handed to audio chores by giving the System RAM (usually 500-1k MBs of System RAM. to the GPU in the BIOS)
It has never interfered with audio buffers in RAM.
The Clarksdale I bought years ago sucked ASS.
Ivy Bridge is when the GPU/CPUs from Intel starting making 1U designs properly.

But the new Xeon is already seeing an M.2 version from Supermicro.
That means I could use PLAY or other lower optimized resource hogs on a 400GB Intel 750 NVMe device.
OS could be an MX-100, same for Kontakt since NCW optimizations make it work on an ancient HDD like my old Raptors.

But that particular Xeon could possibly give PC/Native audio a huge boost in performance, unintentionally as it was designed for gamers.

But we get gamers leftovers which are usually tasty for audio too.

Imagine 8MBs of level 3 from a 4 Core, where only 4 threads are needed, none of the gay turbo shit, or hyperthreading.
Very audio specific chores like samplers and waves for synths would probably be a huge benefit.

Strictly an opinion based in previous experience.
AMDs use to kick the shit out of Intel.
They used 2MBs of cache against 512k of L3 on the Intels.
And even had 2-300 MHz slower speed....?

The last factor I've yet to explore.

But I am finding such great hardware these days I am thinking of retiring the XITE-1 to a giant Modular project in spare time.
And hardware for gigging.

As soon as I find a sample player or ROMpler with Horns as good as mine it's done.
The only thing that approaches the level of mixing quality I get with the XITE-1 is the Crest XR20 w/ 2 x TC Fireworx, and a dbx 166.
The mixer use to be 5 large I got it used for 375 on ebay.
Paid that much for the ATA Case...!!

Cheerz

[tlaskows]

What do you mean by horns??

-Tom

[Bud Weiser]

But I am finding such great hardware these days I am thinking of retiring the XITE-1 to a giant Modular project in spare time.
And hardware for gigging.

As soon as I find a sample player or ROMpler with Horns as good as mine it's done.

Well, hard to find excellent quality ROMplers for brass (horns) and reed instruments,- classical and pop/rock styles incl. articulations.

At least for live gigging, the in Kurzweil PC3 series built in "Orchestral-" and "Strings-" ROMs are good enough, solo instruments included,- but for the better pop/rock brass stuff you need the Kurzweil KORE 64 ROM in addition to get a few.

Roland Integra-7 is the only rackmount ROMpler offering "Super Natural" technology to get some typical articulations/variations from all kind of patches incl. brass/horns, saxes, flutes etc..

But you´ll never find any piece of hardware offering all the articulation options you get from Kontakt- and other hi-end software instruments.

You could try a full blown MUSE Research Receptor 2HU rackmount unit though,- and run Kontakt from there.
Well, it´s also a computer only, but Linux and specialized.

The only thing that approaches the level of mixing quality I get with the XITE-1 is the Crest XR20 w/ 2 x TC Fireworx, and a dbx 166.

DBX 166,- I own two and used one for live-keys always.

XITE-1 is great in my home-studio,- don´t wanna miss it.
Just checked out Roy´s new DAW mixer and it works great.
Then wanted a synth in the project, loaded ZARG Prowave v1.2.1 and programmed a bit and played,- sounded great.
I like synths running on XITE and if there were artefact free patch changes and faster load times possible as well as better MIDI preset system, I´d use ´em live too.



Bud

[tlaskows]

Haven't you guys heard of the Yamaha VL1? It's super old (1994) and can play only 2 voices at a time and it needs a breath controller. No samples there, just virtual acoustic DSP based technology. I used to have a VL7 which is the same but only 1 voice. They are very expensive and super rare.

I love this guy's demos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWxCrz3vmQ

-Tom