This forum is dying a slow and painful death

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:46 am

hubird wrote: With the lack of rational controll from you know I think it works better to seduce them to show the real (D*S) thing everytime.

This is the very part which I personally do not like from your side, Hubird. To me, that is stirring up war. Also from my point of view it is counter productive. It is quite obvious, that you want DAS out of here. But when shit comes from both sides, it all gets quite a bit more complicated.

I would really prefer, if everyone could stay. I think all the involved parties have good an valuable things to bring to the community. But, as John, I do not want to see shit flying around here any more. There for I think it would be really nice, if people would all leave it up to others to make their own mistakes (if mistakes are to be maid at all). People, who do fair play can stay. People who do not will have to leave. It is really the simplest and least ugly way to do these things.

If Hubird would stop serving sour apples to DAS, and if DAS would stop thinking that every time certain forum members open their mouth, it is with the sole purpose to destroy DAS, then we would have come a long way. Olive and Eric - people can disagree with you without wanting to see you dead. The sad thing is, that if someone has another point of view, then hell breaks out, and it is not pretty.

So now, if people would agree to treat each other with respect, that would all be nice. The problem here may be, that people might have different definitions of what it means to "treat someone with respect". To me it includes (but is not limited to):

- accepting, that we do not all agree on everything
- not trying to fool other people into making mistakes
- understanding the fine line between assuming and knowing about other people, and understanding that accusations based on assumptions are potentially very insulting

These points are about respecting other forum members - but it is also about respecting the forum - Z - as a whole. And if people can not respect others in these simple ways, then they should really keep their bad feelings to themselves.

People who behave badly will usually do a fine job collecting enough bad atmosphere around them to eventually get kicked out. They do not need help for that. So please stop helping them. It is really just polluting Z.

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:20 am

you're very interesting ppl DAS calling us Nazis!!

Why not you stay here in z and we all move to somewhere eles!!! do you want that or what do you want. sell your plug... is this the way of selling stuffs!!!!!
Look to other ppl like wolf or Brainworx. guys you need to focus to your own stuffs. you're very talented ppl coming up with plugin on every month. so if you focus on a single plug for a year or for 2 years that will be the ultimate plug for us.

Hysteric · Post by **Hysteric** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:30 am

Stop, or I'll say stop again. Stop, it's not that hard.

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:32 am

you're very interesting ppl DAS calling us Nazis!!

WHERE did you read this ???
As i told before ... it's very frustrating to be bad translated or understood !!!

but in this case i think it's more "oil on fire" than bad translation !!!

cheers
olive

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:33 am

The funny thing is, at the beginning of the web, the paradigm was, AFAIR , to set free from usual communication ways ; telephone is too direct and mainly bi drectional , letters are too private etc....
Web forums a la Z gather people who have a common interest from all over the world and can bring them to discuss without having to sit in front of each others.

One could think that we were about to break the common conception of civilization, censorship, freedom of speech etc...
But nada, this notion of a censorshipless world quickly fades away when we see what happens if every one speaks his mind freely.
The fact that we are semi anonymous doesn't help either. People wouldn't express themself the way they sometimes do, if they would for one second, realize that they would never act this way face to face.
I happen to have met quite a few other forum members or staff in the biological world, and each time, I'm delighted by the fact we get along that well...

Remember, we are on the same boat !!! We share the same passion for music production and the tools around it.
The temptation is great for us to revive the same old real world analogies and behaviours like war, selfishness, nationalistic allusions of all kind etc while setting free from the common conversation and "civilized life" rules...
It's where the "forbidden to forbide" late 60's concept shows it's limitations...Human civilization (including Z'ers) needs some kind of strong rules/guidelines.

Two yellow cards, you're out.

phatbob · Post by **phatbob** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:35 am

I realy love this Z community, and I perfectly understand your feelings John.
Just to mention that this situation already happen in the french CW forum (MAOmusique) in witch exactly the same thing hapen with some of the DAS guys...It brought a very bad atmosphere. They were not kicked out sensus srticto, but went away by themselves considering that we were kig playing with our toys...
Leave them go away..... A very good atmosphere is now back

Peace

E.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:35 am

sonolive wrote:
you're very interesting ppl DAS calling us Nazis!!
WHERE did you read this ???

...er, in your post perhaps?

sonolive wrote: As i told before ... it's very frustrating to be bad translated or understood !!!

Sorry that's bullshit, stop playing the translation card - the word Nazi is the same in any language - you'd have to be an idiot to think that using such a word in a post could be translated in any other way.

This thread would be the opportune moment to start handing out and olive branch (sic), instead you carry on with your offensive verbiage.

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:42 am

so if it is a problem ... i will change the word : occupant ??? is it good , instead of nazis ! ok ?

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:45 am

Olive the word you were looking for is a "Collaborationist".

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:36 am

@Bifop do you think das ppl are guilty or not ?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:44 am

...Paris would be still occupied by German troops and there would be u-boot harbours in Norwegian fjords if society would act with the same 'tolerance' as it's demonstrated here towards one specific actor... (taken from a Monty Python movie)

that said about 'civil courage' - or is it that a so-called community prostitutes itself in the prospect of a couple of plugins ?

Eric is constantly demanding respect and constantly treating others with disrespect

he has had more than enough time to adjust his way of communication - maybe he now considers acting accordingly - oops, sorry for making a suggestion
that's all this BS is about - treat others like you want to be treated - what's so difficult about that ?

cheers, Tom

I have nothing against Eric personally - and I don't want to go out for dinner with him - it's just about this absurd way of spoiling any communication with an omnipresent demand for authority and feeling attacked.
(and it wasn't me to start quoting the past...)

craighuddy · Post by **craighuddy** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:05 am

I don't come here that often, however, it is obvious to me that DAS shold be banned. This used to be a great place to converse all things Scope. Now it still is, but to a lesser degree.

Between DAS calling users down to accusing them of theivery, one certainly can't have a conversation about 3rd party plugins or SDK with having the DAS troll show up and insult and acuse us.

The forum never has been too open to discuss flaws or ways to improve the Scope system ( It is always the users problem, not scope, Scope is perfect as is

) however , DAS has stepped over the line. banning those guys is the only way to return to a civil forum as far as I can see. Until that is done, the noise level in here continues to escalate.

CH

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:07 am

Personally I've never really been involved in the arguments, except to support Astroman/Shroomz as they are simply not capable of doing the things that Eric is accusing them of.

In my view the situation won't change unless Eric/Olive apologizes to anyone they accused of piracy/reverse engineering etc. If they refuse to do this, then I say ban them from the forum.

People have disagreements on forums all the time. But it's really painful to see a decaying horse flogged relentlessly. I've found that here at Planet Z you can state your disagreement with someone and move on. I've disagreed with plenty of people here about politics, spirituality and more. But it's simple enough to disagree and move on (unless you have a huge ego and the unwavering belief that you are right all the time).

Eric is clearly not doing this. I can't fault Astro for resolutely defending his reputation in the face of such a shit-firing loose cannon like Eric.

The most ironic thing is that DAS themselves (if they are being truthful about the quality of their emulations) have reverse engineered and cloned the circuits and interfaces of SSL, AMS and other manufacturers. I wonder if they even thought about ethical things like licensing this stuff?

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:27 am

Firubbi, it's hard to be the judge, so I feel for Jonh who has to take some decision if he wants this place to keep on going civil and friendly.

The french humorist bloke in me tells me they live in a sort of Asterix land where, when you disagree, you fight back with some smelly old fish thrown to the face of your neighbour. Later, you go to the final banquet together having some roasted wild boar and warm cervoise... I could get on with this midly BUT :

I grew up and lived in many different places (and the trip is far from being over ) so I loathe people bringing up the cultural difference as a defense system all the time. Here, it is international land. Period. Learn how to deal with it or go away.

And to go even more personnal, to the contrary of Black american people, here in France, we had to go the submissive way to get accepted. It's called assimilation (vs Integration). "Know where you put your feet boy".
That gives me today even less acceptance of any form of complacency.

So yes DAS are guilty in my eyes. Guilty of a totally uncivilized approach of this place (and apparently other places as well).
But I do think that a few members of Z are guilty as well. Guilty of not letting it go for the sake of a more peaceful place.
*and guilty of not loving the xtc mode as much as I do...

manfriday · Post by **manfriday** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:48 am

Stunning, now he's calling us Nazis

No he wasn't. he was trying to come up with the word "traitor".

Olive the word you were looking for is a "Collaborationist".

or that perhaps, yes.

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:10 am

manfriday wrote:
Stunning, now he's calling us Nazis
No he wasn't. he was trying to come up with the word "traitor".

Olive the word you were looking for is a "Collaborationist".
or that perhaps, yes.

NO this is not PZ is asking for.
follow what Moderator said. this is his forum. we have to follow his rule. one other thing DAS should have a new forum cause they love to spend their valuable time arguing a-z rather than give time to create great plug!!!!!
very wrong profession

Thanks Bifop..... we have to come to a conclusion. either they're staying or they will build a new forum.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:18 am

manfriday wrote:
Stunning, now he's calling us Nazis
No he wasn't. he was trying to come up with the word "traitor".

Olive the word you were looking for is a "Collaborationist".
or that perhaps, yes.

Oh, well in that case that's much better

.

manfriday · Post by **manfriday** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:08 am

I never said it was good.

Post by **hubird** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:46 am

sonolive wrote:IHow do you call a man that spend his time pming or emailing the moderator or some distributors to point out someone writes or acts ???cheers
olive

Sorry Olive, I have to disappoint you, my last message to and from John has been during the conflict about the Poltek phase cancelation test, almost 3/4 year ago now I guess.
My email to distributor EMT was 'announced' on Planetz by myself, as a 'last save' try, no news thus.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:48 am

here in the netherlands we have a saying "wie niet horen wil, moet voelen".
roughly translated, it means "those who don't want to listen, will have to feel".
In this case I think DAS are incapable of listening, or if they do listen they are incapable of interpreting whatever is said in any other way than a personal attack on DAS. Let them feel the banning stick. At least partially like suggested before. They can still post their device announcements, but anything else should be mercilessly deleted.

You cannot keep asking people to behave without at some point attaching some consequences to it.