Please - Hijack this thread

[astroman]

to be honest, I'd expect something like this to happen in any prison, anywhere on the world if circumstances are similiar.
It may be particularly disgusting for the 'home of the brave' and those who consider themselves (at least...?) 'morally' in a leading position, but that doesn't change the facts about what happens elsewhere - and it does happen.

The 'freedom of speech' angle is absolutely laughable bullshit. ...

I've read a great article about this topic right this morning in a well regarded German newspaper (Sueddeutsche)
which started with the ironic statement
'... if they'd registered their prophet as a trademark...'
to point out HOW MUCH LESS freedom of speech exists in our 'western culture' compared to what even the 'mullahs' can prohibit

they called it the religion of 'intellectual property' and that it doesn't even take 24 hours to shut down a tremendous amount of servers if someone claims his 'rights' have been violenced - it's enough to acclaim it, no proof of evidence is made.
You just got to have the proper registration and you can sue anyone into ruin for about anything imaginable. Ouch.

cheers, Tom
no supporter of war, but I have to admit that pseudo-religious riot completely p*sses me off - though I take GaryB's words into account as well.
But it were fundamental muslims who used buddha statues as artillery targets in afghanistan once, weren't they ?

[emzee]

Good old Mark Twain needs a look in here. Exact quote escapes me, but he commented that if something (eg religion) couldn't stand up to laughter, it had insufficient substance.

I try not to discriminate: I figure that covers Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Capitalism etc

[hubird]

I'd exclude Buddhisme from that list

[garyb]

But it were fundamental muslims who used buddha statues as artillery targets in afghanistan once, weren't they ?

yes, the same taliban that was set up by pakistani intelligence, given several millions of dollars by the bush regime(supposedly to eliminate opium production, even though the us allied itself with opium growers against the taliban later) and "accidently" evacuated by airforce transports during "operation enduring freedom".....

the word is "destabilization"...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-02-16 23:46 ]</font>

[astroman]

most likely yes, but I was more concerned with the 'respect' these sensitive souls have for 'other' religions, and which they demand for themselves from even the most remote group of persons.
would you define the 'riots' as a post-justification for war, initiated by the very same interest group ?
it seems to work pretty well...

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

it's called "order out of chaos". the more chaos, the easier it is to establish order....

those claiming to be moral and fundemental are neither. they lead the ignorant to destruction and then blame those that the mislead for being stupid, even though the misleaders are the creators of the stupidity.

in any case, it is the poorest and most vulnerable who will suffer the most at the hands of their trusted(and unbeleivably and thoroughly wicked) brother in the short term, but everyone's doom in the long term...

the problem is that the real cause of these troubles is so ridiculously strange and evil as to be unbelievable. it's almost impossible to think that the real antagonists could believe in such strange inhuman things that they do. but the DO do those things and once you accept that truth, ocam's razor is applicable and the simplest, most straight-forward explanation becomes the answer. they DO breed people like farm animals. they DO play with their heads and lie to them. they DO think that they are like God or very nearly, at least gods. they do misinform, mislead, distort and just flat out lie to the public. they amazing thing is that it's all in public documents. people are so brainwashed and zombified that "hide in plain sight" is one of the favorite "pass times"...

[darkrezin]

On 2006-02-16 11:42, astroman wrote:
to be honest, I'd expect something like this to happen in any prison, anywhere on the world if circumstances are similiar.
It may be particularly disgusting for the 'home of the brave' and those who consider themselves (at least...?) 'morally' in a leading position, but that doesn't change the facts about what happens elsewhere - and it does happen.

Errm... how does that excuse anything at all? I don't think it's relevant. The Iraq war was sold as a 'humanitarian' war - freeing Iraq from the tyranny and brutality of that pesky Saddam Hussain. The prison events show this to be an absolute lie.

no supporter of war, but I have to admit that pseudo-religious riot completely p*sses me off - though I take GaryB's words into account as well.
But it were fundamental muslims who used buddha statues as artillery targets in afghanistan once, weren't they ?

Again, how does this excuse anything? The cartoons show a fundamental lack of respect for another culture - not just a religion. It shows ignorance in its most tasteless form. You cannot be surprised at the consequences. I don't excuse the 'riots' about it either, but that does not mean that I think the people who published that crap are any better. If anything I think they are pretty stupid for putting their countries at risk.

[next to nothing]

i think its funny how extremists who blew up a 2000 year old buddah gets such much understanding about being pissed at a bloody cartoon, demanding respect to their prophet..

[Spirit]

The irony of the fanatic muslim reaction is a cross between desperately, pitifully sad and completely laughable. So it deserves another laugh:

[darkrezin]

That attitude is just fucking sad, guys. And really really really lame.

It's like saying Christianity is nothing but sick paedophiles and abortion-doctor killers.

Think about it.

Get over your stupidity and ignorance.

[darkrezin]

Oh and Spirit, you really must be a simple man to find that funny.

[astroman]

On 2006-02-19 06:42, darkrezin wrote:
...The Iraq war was sold as a 'humanitarian' war - freeing Iraq from the tyranny and brutality of that pesky Saddam Hussain. The prison events show this to be an absolute lie.
...

I never considered Saddam the main reason for that war, but not oil either...

...If anything I think they are pretty stupid for putting their countries at risk.

THAT's the point Dark - and that's what gets me on rage and even people who originally condemned the Iraqui war.

I will NEVER accept that these folks will have ANY influence on my life at all and NOT A SINGLE ONE running around burning flags is considered to have even the slightest political rights in my very humble opinion - it's the mob and nothing but the mob.

I don't care what they do in their tribal territory, it's not my business.
I still have that nice GEO feature about the Jemen from the mid 80s, where passengers in a civil airplane sit with AK47s as their hand luggage.
There's a photo from a prisoner at war who's cemented into a single room (high in a tower) with a 12" hole where he's getting food and water with a rope from above once a day...
they execute delinquents like rabbits in a sports arena by near distance machine-gun fire.
it's really cute and exotic, seen from a distance - and if they want to play medieval, then they shall do, I don't care.

But taking such folks politically serious - no, thanks.

I don't see the world according to a george dubble u and I don't see it according to those wannabe war heroes either.
There could be a dialog, according to the century we live in - but obviously neither the fundamentalists nor the neocons want it and both sides try to outperform each other in throwing gas into the fire.

cheers, tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-02-19 08:30 ]</font>

[Shroomz~>]

I've made the odd comment about religeon on this forum & been virtually & verbally attacked for doing so by christian bible thumpers & now it's OK for fools to post religeous propaganda in the form of unfunny suppoosedly satirical pictures ... yeah right, I get the picture.

I live in the same country (well almost) as Darkrezin & I can tell you there's no place for this type of humour here. Yes it's 'black', yes it's funny to the warped mind without a concience, but It's deliberately provoking response from a culture DESTINED to act as strongly as this. They still punish blasphemy in some of these countries (pakistan for example) by the death penalty.
Ie - you'll get SHOT or HUNG .. Dark ages perhaps, but no excuse for deliberately insighting all this SHIT in the first place with some worthless & brutally thoughtless cartoons making a mock of one of the world's major (and often fanatical) religeous cultures.

[Shroomz~>]

FWIW, I think this conversation should move in the direction of what's acceptable on this subject in terms of our posts here on PlanetZ.

I mentioned in the previous post about reactions by Christians here on Planet Z when I've previously voiced my opinion in an insensitive manner about religeous mentallity. It ended up in people taking quite severe offence at my comments & I even recieved yet another warning of sorts from John Cooper about my conduct here.

The bottom line in my humble opinion is that people posting satirical & 'black' religeous cartoons of this nature (no names) are actually potentially risking Planet Z being 'taken down' by the very targets of their brainless humour & I'd be very interested indeed to here John Cooper's opinion on the matter.

[Liquid Len]

On 2006-02-19 08:26, astroman wrote:
I never considered Saddam the main reason for that war, but not oil either...

You've mentioned this a few times. I'm intrigued - what WAS a more likely 'real reason' in your opinion?

[Shroomz~>]

I mean seriously ... what the hell are you guys playing at. Some newspapers publish a cartoon (for whatever reason) which insights all sorts of protests, both violent & non-violent around the WORLD. .. yet it's somehow not only acceptable, but funny to continue the sharade... mmm

You're playing right into the hands of the US administration (amongst others) on this one guys & without being offensive I think you're way out of order for puting Planet Z at risk because of some cretinous cartoons.

[astroman]

without being an expert on this case (I tried to stick with the serious press with balanced attitude) - it took almost 5 month until these cartoons eventually became a worldwide issue - and evidence is that it weren't 'these cartoons' to start a reaction, but a few nasty 'extras'...
but ONLY after heavy advertising of those who wanted to be provoked
the rest is hysteria and to be treated as such
but as GaryB wrote: where did they get all those danish flags from ???

cheers, Tom

ps: even if all su*cide b*mbers of the world unite - the risk to meet one 1:10.000 compared to the risk to die tomorrow in a regular traffic accident


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-02-19 12:39 ]</font>

[garyb]

as i said, this stuff is verifiable, you CAN track the money, there ARE LOTS of smoking guns, yet people allow the dialog to be narrowed to these ridiculous points about "extremists" who don't really exist in the "natural" world. it's all theater. you can't go around murdering and torturing innocents without it.

actually, Spirit's cartoon IS pretty ironic as that is the real result of such "protests". the "protesters" who are mostly just ignorant people who want to be left alone and feel like the world is against them(encouraged by false leaders who work for their tormentors and provide NEW danish flags in a country where a danish flag must be imported. how many danish flag stores are there in pakistan, afghanistan or iraq?) are bound to be met with sarcasm and disdain, which will be plenty of excuse to murder and dismember women, children and the aged, not to mention plenty of an excuse to send the poor and disenfranchised over there to be murdered as well.

it's easy to feel superior while being played like a fiddle.....

hey, just put cameras everywhere and tracking and id checks with national id cards and restrict free people's ability to travel freely and lock people up and practice eugenics. that will keep everyone safe from the boogyman.....unless it's the boogyman's idea to do all those things so that everyone can be properly enslaved.....europeans should know better after the excesses of their kings and after fascist experience. memories are sadly short.....

[garyb]

On 2006-02-19 12:31, astroman wrote:
ps: even if all su*cide b*mbers of the world unite - the risk to meet one 1:10.000 compared to the risk to die tomorrow in a regular traffic accident

exactly, and yet we're all to give up our hard won freedoms and liberty over them AND buy a new car!

[astroman]

On 2006-02-19 12:39, garyb wrote:
... memories are sadly short.....

not exactly Gary, the sentence 'the fuhrer wouldn't have tolerated this' is not that uncommon these days...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-02-19 12:45 ]</font>