The monster of atomic war is upon us, again...

[Nestor]

Nestor,

I admire your energy and will to let people know something is upon us.
A year or 7 back, I tried the same thing. This was about the New World Order plan thingy..
In these seven years I learned a thing or two about dogma. Meaning , taking someone elses idea's and beleive in them like they are your own.
In those years I became depressed, and realy hated people that weren't even willing to listen but always came up with the most riddiculest of ways to just put the messenger on a spot. In a way that thought me alot about people and how they were stuck in there own dogma problem.
That realisation gave me a bit more perspective in why some people couldn't in any way begin to get into this stuff. Just because in there thoughts, this is all nonsense and they rather spend time on other things. Yes, some people don't have any will to do some critical thinking and some call it "sleeping".

After a time I came to realise that I could never defeat a system that runs in every home, and spawns so much "information", that one could lay out all the mis information beeing presented or propagandated (in my opinion) on the mainstream media. I stopped watching tv all together and this brought me a little peace of mind. Now a days I try to keep my findings to myself as I beleive one should figure out themselves how the world works. They won't accept it any other way. Critical thinking is something one must practise, and isn't thought at schools anymore (if ever..). Once learing to see thru the lies and ways people are beeing mislead and conditioned to beleive this or that they will finally see for themselfs.. This quest is a personal one, and I think one can only grow as a person doing this rabbit hole thingy

Peace to you my Z-friend , and good luck in your quest, as to all other people in this thread.
"They" will never win as long as there are people like you.

Cheers!

Casper

Thank you for your kind words Casper, I well read and well understood your story. Nevertheless, I am not trying for people to follow anything. There is an international war coming up, it is an extremely serious situation, how could anyone not be concerned about it if they were sure that is coming? But, as this situation has happened many times, for years and years, most people in the entire world will tend to believe that is not going to happen either this time, that this is going to be yet another false flag as many times happened before, but this time it will be different, is far from being “false” at all.

Accepting that everything is going to change causes a mammoth resistance within us because we don’t want to lose our comfortable lives, this is pretty much understandable. In the other hand, I don’t think that convincing anyone is a good idea, I don’t like to be convinced myself.

For some these ideas are something old, when I’m talking about a present problem, without even taking care of what happened before now. The actuality of a world conflagration is going to take shape more and more as the months go by, and there everything is going to clear by itself.

[next to nothing]

To Gary, I actually agree to the basis of your reply to me, and I guess that post actually sums up a lot my basis as well. We will ofcurse disagree on a lot as we always have, which is probably healthy as a whole, but i will leave it with that

And to Nestor, I hope you continue to take info from different sources, that is actually the basis of what i am trying to state here. My concern has been that lately you have tended to post more articles from rather dubvious sources, that might seem resonable as they seem to "fit the bill". I still don't think this conflict is in a world threatening state, and hopefully i am right.

I won't dwelwe more on this issue here at the moment, just make sure you continue to get info from a variety of sources and not automatically stamp every "official" channel as a bogus "Elite" channel. I still am pretty sure there is no New World Order thing, purely based on human biology.

[garyb]

let me help you stardust.

"zealots" were a political group who wished to expell the military government imposed by Rome in ancient Judea.

from wiki:
Zealotry was originally a political movement in 1st century Second Temple Judaism which sought to incite the people of Iudaea Province to rebel against the Roman Empire and expel it from the Holy land by force of arms, most notably during the Great Jewish Revolt (66-70). Zealotry was described by Josephus as one of the "four sects" at this time.

EtymologyThe term "zealot", in Hebrew kanai (קנאי, frequently used in plural form, קנאים (kana'im)), means one who is zealous on behalf of God. The term derives from Greek ζηλωτής (zelotes), "emulator, zealous admirer or follower".[2][3

if you are stuck on the word "zealous", that's a positive word meaning:
ardent - enthusiastic - eager - fervent - keen - earnest

there's nothing wrong with those traits. hopefully, they are not used for false causes, but i'd rather have people showing those traits than traits like being jaded meaning "made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by surfeit" which you have also called people like me. which is it? it can't be both. i guess there is a proper time and place for everything and all attitudes...

however, Zealots were known for acts of terrorism and political assasination. i have NEVER been involved in terrorist acts, nor assasinations. please stop calling me names and trying to demonize me just because you don't like my point of view.

also, "blethering incarnation " is nonsense talk. there is no word "blethering" and incarnation means to make flesh. if you mean that i am the incarnation of a blithering(blith·er·ing/Adjective: Senselessly talkative, babbling; used chiefly as an intensive to express annoyance or contempt) paranoid idiot, then you're the incarnation of an internet bully, which is one of the worst types of cowards, because i'm pretty sure that you are the last one to actually speak fighting words directly to my face.

you are the perfect example of true censorship. you never refute ideas directly. instead, you do your best to discredit the person who expresses the idea. i'm guessing it's just because you really CAN'T debate or discuss ideas, but that you ZEALOUSLY wish to end all discussion. i know you are trying to be as rude as possible so that someone will lose their cool and lash out at you, and then you can go to John and complain about how "unmutual" this thread has become, but i'm not biting. from what i've seen, people are talking and sharing their opinions, which is perfectly fine. there have even been those who disagree completely who have found reasons to repect each other and all this is in spite of your bad intentions.

[valis]

All this bickering over character is just yet another fallacy, a sort of red herring where you attack the character rather than the facts in play in the discussion. Fwiw there are also plenty of 'appeals to emotion' type fallacies afoot here as well... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies < read the informal fallacies & on down).

As for Alex Jones, some people prefer to steep their words in moderation so that moderates will accept their words, Alex imo prefers to steep a good portion of the subjects he involves himself in with melodrama. I can fully understand how this can be off-putting, having a 'boy who cried wolf' desensitizing effect once you've heard a few of his broadcasts or read a few of his articles. However once again it's important to consider that while the message bearer may not be ideal, you can't simply dispense with everything he says. The incarceration camps for instance, while I think Alex can only stick to the most inflammatory interpretations as that's the audience he appeals to it does make one wonder what FEMA would need with such things. Certainly haven't seen them put to any legitimate use during Katrina or the various other natural disasters (flooding, hurricane alley destruction etc) that have occurred since they've been in public view beyond just the conspirator's toolkit.

Personally I'm not inclined towards making inflammatory remarks, whether it's about another person or about politics. But given how much progress the trappings of fascism have made in the last decade or so in the US it's difficult to not want to vet such discussions. I'm not one to want to waste my energies on purely masochistic undertakings, but surely considering contradictory points of view is healthy if the time is available. At least I would think so given how frequently I've seen 'conservatives' and 'liberals' alike in the US polarize to what amounts to a 'belief' taken on faith when discussing politics.

To give an example of the more paranoid 'outside the system' views, I have friends who long ago (late teens, early 20's) departed from the 'mainstream' believing every new road project brought with it sinister secret agendas (they will corral people into this highway that runs lower than ground level to make people easy to contain and kill) which seemed completely farcical at the time. And while I still don't believe their paranoid perspectives as a more (supposedly) mature adult, I can now understand how someone who feels disenfranchised can find such things easier to believe. And I can understand how perspectives across the board can all 'ring true' to those who hold them.

The real issue at foot in this thread though is whether or not Iran is the next focus in the middle east for the 'powers that be'. Unfortunately the things that motivate political intrigue, war, fascist corporate involvement in foreign affairs and US lawmaking and even FEMA camps are not reducible to one perspective. There are many players and I would assume just as many agendas at play, and while the majority of them may line up with a small number of objectives at any given time things in human endeavors are rarely reducible to one motive outside of the pat histories taught to school children.

In other words I suggest we stop acting like school children ourselves and face the complexities here in a more refined fashion, or if the conversation doesn't suit you recognize that the OT forum is indeed the place for such things. Since a discussion on what motherboard to use for Xite or Scope doesn't erupt into inflammatory statements, attacks on the messenger and so on I can only assume that we're also capable of the same thing here.

[hubird]

but this time it will be different, is far from being “false” at all.
In the other hand, I don’t think that convincing anyone is a good idea, I don’t like to be convinced myself.

strange, you're trying to convince us to death all the time, just in this thread alone already for 12 pages.
Check the wholy half mysterious language you often use, all those flammory words, the priest/religion-ous tone, etc.
Saying you don'tt wanne 'convince' is just a reaction of trying to be politically more correct.

Convincing is your second nature, it leaks through every syllabe of your nonstop fload of 'information' from -indeed- weak sources.
But go ahead, it's your party.
We, the sheep and ignorant blind, will be soon enlighted by the few who are informed...

Note: my sister, living in France, marriaged a medical student from Iran, formerly known as Persia, when sjah Pahlavi run his 'enlighted' monarchy. They had to flee back in those days, or they would have been killed.
You bet I follow the Iranian news since then even more than the rest of the world news.
So stop playing -there is the term again- the all knowing warning prophet of doom.
I read the news also, and I'm even sure I chose better sources than you're doing.
Also, the conceipt of political manipulations by secret services and powers behind politics isn't strange to me, as I'm historically-politically well educated.
I just don't like it to be memorized to it all the time as if I'm an ignorant.
Actually I tend to think that so far you are the ignorant, though I'm not using that word as a reproach.
Inform yourself, but don't think you need to inform the rest of the world also...

Besides, even during the last century - with 2 world wars including Hiroshima, all other conflicts plus the three big nuclear disasters of that century with recently Japan - the earth was a much more safe place than in earlier times of history, if you take the chance not to die by violence as a measure of that.

Don't believe the hype - Public Enemy.

@Valis. I hate it to be called a ignorant or sheep, or get the feeling this is behind the words...when that stops a normal discussion would be more probably...

[Nestor]

Gary, your message to Stardust was simply great, and Valis, thank you, your words are really inspiring, they show a very intelligent approach to live, this is exactly what I would like here to reach together.

Next, I understand your request, but take into account that you don’t believe there is an elite behind the world, I neither believe, I am positively sure that it is true. I know it by myself. This makes for some differences between our understandings, and as you say, it is healthy to have different opinions. So, don’t expect me to reach at your news, I don’t expect for you to reach a mine either. So, the enrichment here is that we both bring something different which will hopefully bring some final light, so it’s fine. Anyway, I take into account many things that you are not aware off, simply because it is a matter of language. For instance, few people know that Monsanto has deceived Argentinean farmers, and that huge, large territories that were green are becoming into sand… there is so much to take into account. Just as an example. Anyway, I truly appreciate your good will, this is gold, thank you.

Hubird, after making the effort to talk to you “in a very friendly way” in my last answer to you, I see that you are exactly in the same path you were before, which is surprising to me, I thought you would say at least “thank you it’s ok”, or “sorry for the insults I will stop them”, or “let start anew with some better communication skills” any little goodwill would have been appreciated. I don’t know, I mean, any positive sign would have been encouraging. You have totally ignored everything I said; it’s like if your capacity to feeling emotions was atrophied.

I feel that you are talking alone again, you are as I described you before, in front of your mirror and you can actually not see anything but your own thoughts.

You are insulting me again. And you are insulting yourself too with that:

you're trying to convince us to death
wholy half mysterious language
priest/religion-ous tone
Convincing is your second nature
We, the sheep and ignorant blind, will be soon enlighted by the few who are informed...
all knowing warning prophet of doom
I'm even sure I chose better sources than you're doing
I'm historically-politically well educated
I tend to think that so far you are the ignorant
don't think you need to inform the rest of the world

My questions for you are back, forced by the situation, because you have chosen to be in the same position as you’ve been before, which is a wrong one independently of which is the topic we are talking about, you are out of place in the way you are treating others, it’s not a matter of what we are talking about, but how we are talking about it. Ultimately, it is a matter of respect and humanity.

Respect is one of the most valuables virtues a person could expand in his life, it is magnificent, and it is the signature of those who care for each other. I don’t see any will on you to change your ways, as if you have already learned all you could possible learn in life, which is never true for anybody. I’m starting to see that you think your ways are just right, that they are perfect. It is clear by now that you think of yourself to be always right, but you are being very aggressive, insulting and childish too, your posts shouts and harts if you ask me. This is not perfection or excellence in any way Hubird, it is not. Perfection is love, care, understanding, respect, personal and fellow wellbeing created by you, goodwill, help, forgiveness, that is looking for perfection. At least, being so instructed as you are, you should know and understand that those values are well up the scale compared with violence, disrespect, anger, discredit, putting words in other people’s mouths, calling names, misleading thoughts, mistranslating words, and of course, whatsoever knowledge you may have... This is too basic! If you cannot understand that, your intellectual expertise is of no use, honestly. In that case, please let me be blessed by ignorance! If you chose to wear a brilliant tuxedo to show up, you will also need to behave accordingly, like a gentleman, so it suits the combination. I don’t think that spitting people’s eyes in the street while you open your way among them with your elbows striking faces saying, “get out of my way you idiots” is a good procedure if you pretend to be a gentleman wearing a wonderful tuxedo.

I cannot but ask you the same questions I have already asked you before, which are all unanswered, because it is unfair that I answer you everything you tell and ask me, but you only talk about what you see in your mirror. This time, if you don’t answer them, don’t expect for me to answer any of your comments or PM. If you want to talk to me, which is seems very important for you, first answer these questions with honestly, and we will talk later:

* Why are you so angry and which is the real reason behind your violence?
* Why do you lose your time with people you dislike and detest?
* Why do you come back if there is no real information in this theme for you?
* Why if you have better news or complementary news you don’t share them with us?
* Why do you think to be superior to everybody else? (Because in your words it really shows that you believe it)
* Where is it the plot between Europeans and Americans, can you demonstrated it in any way? Which country are them, who are them, where are their belligerent writings? (only inside yourself I guess, without fear of being wrong)

[hubird]

I don't share your 'analysis' about my post at all.

This whole thread is one big try to 'convince'.
Now that you get the reproach to push hard you deny that you do.
Which makes me say you yet do, the thread shows it.

You don't have to agree tho.
We're in OT.

[Nestor]

I don't share your 'analysis' about my post at all.

This whole thread is one big try to 'convince'.
Now that you get the reproach to push hard you deny that you do.
Which makes me say you yet do, the thread shows it.

You don't have to agree tho.
We're in OT.

* Why are you so angry and which is the real reason behind your violence?
* Why do you lose your time with people you dislike and detest?
* Why do you come back if there is no real information in this theme for you?
* Why if you have better news or complementary news you don’t share them with us?
* Why do you think to be superior to everybody else? (Because in your words it really shows that you believe it)
* Where is it the plot between Europeans and Americans, can you demonstrated it in any way? Which country are them, who are them, where are their belligerent writings? (only inside yourself I guess, without fear of being wrong)

[dawman]

Americans hate everybody including themselves, their parents and even their pets.
So nothing new there.
But after seeing Adrianna Lima, Gisele Bunchen, and Alessandra Ambrosia, I really hate Brazilians now.
Bunch of friggin' jerks...

[hubird]

hm, if I was allowed to quote from a long pm I got today you all would be astonished about the expressed frustration about the direction Planetz has taken for some years now.
The message didn't come from an active member in this (or any) thread anyway, so it adds up to the current protesters in this thread.

From contributions by formerly active members I know there are some more guys who hate the conspiracy loving antidemocratic tendency Planetz has taken.
Some of them don't like my style, and they have other reasons not to take part to OT stuff, so they won't show up here anyway, but I'm sure they don't like the current sauce on Planetz.

Bash on, I like it...

Ps. I predict that Obama will conquer a second term. read my lips, eh words.
Of course even this will be set up by the Evil Elite, but at least welfare will be spread a bit more honestly, the social care system will be consolidated in the political system, and taxes will be a tiny bit less demonicly unfair.

[valis]

Next, I understand your request, but take into account that you don’t believe there is an elite behind the world, I neither believe, I am positively sure that it is true. I know it by myself. This makes for some differences between our understandings, and as you say, it is healthy to have different opinions. So, don’t expect me to reach at your news, I don’t expect for you to reach a mine either. So, the enrichment here is that we both bring something different which will hopefully bring some final light, so it’s fine. Anyway, I take into account many things that you are not aware off, simply because it is a matter of language. For instance, few people know that Monsanto has deceived Argentinean farmers, and that huge, large territories that were green are becoming into sand… there is so much to take into account. Just as an example. Anyway, I truly appreciate your good will, this is gold, thank you.

I'm not sure if you're referencing me in not believing in a global elite? I think a better summation of my viewpoint would be that if agnosticism. I can plainly see that we have lived under power structures for millennia, I wonder about the motives behind the think tank that gave us the Fed Reserve, IRS, foundation of modern Intel agencies etc....and all that is now a century past so we're well into whatever game was setup then.

However I do NOT believe every white van is the DHS spying on me, some of those vans are just google spying on me

[garyb]

antidemocratic?

[hubird]

yes.

[Nestor]

Next, I understand your request, but take into account that you don’t believe there is an elite behind the world, I neither believe, I am positively sure that it is true. I know it by myself. This makes for some differences between our understandings, and as you say, it is healthy to have different opinions. So, don’t expect me to reach at your news, I don’t expect for you to reach a mine either. So, the enrichment here is that we both bring something different which will hopefully bring some final light, so it’s fine. Anyway, I take into account many things that you are not aware off, simply because it is a matter of language. For instance, few people know that Monsanto has deceived Argentinean farmers, and that huge, large territories that were green are becoming into sand… there is so much to take into account. Just as an example. Anyway, I truly appreciate your good will, this is gold, thank you.

I'm not sure if you're referencing me in not believing in a global elite? I think a better summation of my viewpoint would be that if agnosticism. I can plainly see that we have lived under power structures for millennia, I wonder about the motives behind the think tank that gave us the Fed Reserve, IRS, foundation of modern Intel agencies etc....and all that is now a century past so we're well into whatever game was setup then.

However I do NOT believe every white van is the DHS spying on me, some of those vans are just google spying on me

No no..., that message was for Next to Nothing, that's why it says Next as a first word. As Next is a word, it can be anything, I better call him Next to Nothing next time...

[Nestor]

Americans hate everybody including themselves, their parents and even their pets.
So nothing new there.
But after seeing Adrianna Lima, Gisele Bunchen, and Alessandra Ambrosia, I really hate Brazilians now.
Bunch of friggin' jerks...

In that case dude, you are rather jealous of Brazilians...

[Nestor]

Interesting:

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120213/171288769.html

and this too

http://www.france24.com/en/20120213-car ... rgia-india

[garyb]

yes.

in what way?

actually, why should an internet message board be "democratic" in any way?

or maybe you prefer democracy of the ESM?

how is it antidemocratic(just an emotionally loaded term that actually has no meaning in this sense) for someone to express his views on the news that is being reported at the moment, which is that there appears to be a buildup to attack Iran? why are you butthurt that the discussion is happening?

actually, it's much more undemocratic to try and silence that opinion because you disagree.

it's simple. if you disagree, tell us why, EXACTLY. show alternative proof or opinions based on other evidence(or even the same evidence, if you are capable of breaking down the info for us). or, if it really bothers you, avoid the discussion. i don't agree with everything that Nestor has posted, but i'm not in conflict because of that....

PlanetZ has never been a democracy. it has always been a benign dictatorship of John Cooper's, one that he is free to close down or allow as he pleases. it really makes no difference what you or i think as far as John's ultimate power of ownership goes. actually, that's great! there's no reason for this to be a democracy. we don't need to vote on every thread and we don't need mob rule(the ultimate democracy) either.

what does being "democratic" have to do with the opinions expressed, or whether it's proper to express them?

[hubird]

I see the confusion.

What I meant is that conspiracy thinking implicitely houses an antidemocratic load.

If everything is determined anyway, and nothing is what it looks like, why would we vote or participate in political processes, and who would be worth voting for anyway?

I said it before: deterministic views about all mighty elites are a-historical, mystifying and politically discouraging, therefor 'antidemocratic'.
The only setting in which the unevitable elites can be unmasked is a democratic setting (of some kind), guided by a free press and a well educated population.

The flirtation of conspiracy adepts with more or less 'secret' and 'elitist' knowledge in a half-mysterious and exclusive setting is contraproductive for citizen participation in change and for political (class) consciousness.
Woodward and Bernstein never tried it that way, not for nothing.

So far in short my explanation and answer to your question.


Related to the current situation I say this.
Nestor, the unknowing emotionalist and fairy tales lover (L o t R) got sucked into that same conspiracy world, and immediately he incorporated that mysterious 'innercircle' tone in conversation, and started without any shame or intelligent modesty to preach as the prophet of doom for 'those who want to listen'.

The combination of that innercircle mystifying tone combined with the missionairy pedantic teaching attitude in his newly adapted interest in politics (based on very biased news sources) is one thing.
The total lack of feeling for 'policy', shown by him as administrator of Planetz by this very thread about a hot issue, made the picture complete, so much that I decided to jump on the train again.

His switching between administrator and casual observer at a moment's notice revealed his innocence dramaticly.
He should be thankful to you that you cautioned him to be careful what he posts online about the satanic conspiracies (i think).
He restrained himself, but the smell of the priest with a mission keeps hanging above the planet(z).


it's fun anyway.
going to z now, cheerz.

[siriusbliss]

Hubird, you're really confused and have convoluted and co-mingled your belief systems within the framework of mob-rule - which is inherently the definition of so-called 'democracy'.

If it's not demonizing the message, it's demonizing the messenger, which gives you nothing.

It's classic double-think to negate self-generated thought by simply calling something a conspiracy, with the intention of unconsciously turning the other way, take everything at face-value in unfortunately deny yourself from real truth.

The op posted about threat of war, and has been open in his in-depth discussion and consideration of what's happening in the world.

You can't pull the anti-democracy tag here and expect to get away with it, because it's an adjunct definition cloaked in ignorance of what mob-rule really means.

Most of the population throughout the world is caught up in mob rule - mostly unbeknownst to them.

Now, if you wouldn't just rip yourself off by calling things conspiracies so that you won't have to face up to them, then you'll enable yourself to dig deeper into how the world really operations. And no, it goes way deeper than taxes or social security.

Just follow the money - beyond who benefits from bail-outs, etc. all the way down to who (somewhere) would benefit from all-out war (using Iran as a trigger).

It goes WAY beyond Obomba getting re-'elected' (which he obviously will), because he's a front-man for the federalists and neo-fascists (which we'd get with Mittens, Gangrich, and Sanitarium anyways) that have been running wall street and the banking system for millenia.

This whole charade goes way back before the Romans, Vikings, etc. - it's the same pattern over and over again.

The real choice is what you want to buy into.

G

[dawman]

Too bad we don't have Greek among us who have first hand knowledge of these hidden powers that purchase the political process, since they know mans greed is his purest emotion.
Goldman Sachs is a front fot the Federal Reserve, is chair # 1, chair # 2 is Barclays, Then Deutsch Bank than the Arab Gulf States Bank, World Dubai, etc. So they can't control every country simulataneously, they sure know the divide and conquer tactics, and the fact they operate outside of the law, should at least be of concern to any European since these Banks control the global eceonomy, not some part time politician mouth piece.
Greenspan served how many Presidents, created at least 2 Booms in the American and Global economy, so naturally a way to make non believers seem like a nut is to have the Alex Jones, and Bob Lazars of the world with a mic and camera, or a book.

We saw the B2's and heard the F117's at night in Nevada for years before they were ever used, and we were called whackos, but then the President was forced to publicly acknowledge their existance, Strike one up for the whackos. And currently the bought and paid for electoral race cannot deny Ron Pauls momentum, but he has his finger on the very nerves that rattle the secretive Federal Reserve Globalists, so he is branded a whacko and a nut. His voters are mostly the young and the military, and the purest constitutionalists. The powers that be will never allow him to win as the delegates will be purchased if necessary, so while Europe may be truly more democratic than the USA, it's still purchased by the globalists on financial matters. It's simple, you offer someone a great big chip in the game, if you refuse your opponent recieves it.
But the anti conspiracy guy in me says there's no way to keep secrets with so many involved. Hell the most powerful administration in recent times under Nixon couldn't even break into a hotel without getting caught, but you do see the way power and entitlement go hand in hand. But surely when thousands of rats are involved there are disgruntled ones who might squeak, like Roland Arnall who was turned into an Ambassador to the Netherlands to avoid prosecution here at home, and oddly died soon after the Queen accepted his Billions stolen form the middle class Home equity. THey figured he would talk.You can google that name as I was directly involved in a lawsuit against one of his shell companys. so I heard and read depostisitions that never reached the papers. Google his name, you'll see my connection started for the news of him buying my bosses house for 30 million was something we we reminded of for months during soundchecks and in every conversation held.
Performing musicians who are in touch with the elites hear more than most, and is also why I can't see thousands keeping a secret, but there are powerful entities who operate globally like criminals crossing state lines here at home. Your interests and opinions are inconsequential to their quests.
But they really do care for the little people as the BP CEO slipped and made mention of.

PeaceOut