I think that is oversimplification to be honest, Braincell. The stand the church currently takes on these issues isn't even part of their historical doctrines. (That's why there aren't any prominent biblical quotes on their fetus pictures.) It's politics using religion to control people. Politics (real politics, not just the show we get on TV) creates a problem, then when the symptoms appear, they encourage people, using religion but also nowadays the media, to attack the symptoms, creating even more problems. If people REALIZED that "it's a grand illusion, and deep inside we're all the same" ...then a lot of people who make money off the misery would counterattack. Then we'd be where we are today.
What about education in general, should there BE any arts? Should we stop people from learning literature and poetry from the last few centuries because they are out of date and we now know scientifically that tigers can never combust, not in normal situations anyways? (I bet they would burn in fluorine.)
I agree there are problems in the world, and religion is used to accomplish them. I just don't think religion as such is where the biggest cause of grief comes from. If all the religious people really followed their religions, would you have as much real issue with them? I mean, if they were REALLY more honest, kind, hard working, humble, cheerful, dynamic, cheerful people, (all of which an objective reader can not fail to see as central to their "book o' big beliefs"), would you grumble over them? If your boss came in and said, "you are such a hard worker, you deserve a raise, and take the rest of the day off", would you CARE if he thought there was a face of Jesus on a hot dog?
On a side note, the face of jesus was seen on the side of a Tim Horton's coffee shop a few hours drive from where I live. It was the snicker of the town. All the religious people I knew, thought it was sidesplittingly comical anyone could think something so ludicrous, except the fundies, who thought it was blasphemous. So I guess though all religious people are totally dementedly crazy, some are more crazy than others, at least that's how I see it.
God is not great: How religion poisons everthing
This is all fine guys but you are sidestepping the basic issue that almost nothing in the bible is true. It was not meant to be art or metaphor. If you read the bible carefully, it clearly states that it is literally the word of god and anyone who doubts it, is going to burn in hell forever. It's funny to see how people try to interpret it in a more logical way than it was intended.
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BingoTheClowno
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Can you explain this more?Liquid Len wrote: It's politics using religion to control people.
Yes.Liquid Len wrote: What about education in general, should there BE any arts?
I wouldn't grumble over that if I knew it was genuine. You would be disappointed to learn that all this joyous and hypocritical display of devotion is built on repressed thoughts and feelings.Liquid Len wrote: I mean, if they were REALLY more honest, kind, hard working, humble, cheerful, dynamic, cheerful people, (all of which an objective reader can not fail to see as central to their "book o' big beliefs"), would you grumble over them?
I would certainly want to learn the fate of the hot dog. In addition I'd be extremely worried with religious discrimination and persecution issues.Liquid Len wrote: If your boss came in and said, "you are such a hard worker, you deserve a raise, and take the rest of the day off", would you CARE if he thought there was a face of Jesus on a hot dog?
Last edited by BingoTheClowno on Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Liquid Len
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Explain using religion to control people, for political gain, Bingo?
The kind of extremist religion you describe, certainly does destabilize people's minds and makes them into sheep, easily manipulated into believing whatever is needed. By emphasising certain passages and interpretations, and ignoring the other 99% of the 'holy book', you can make people believe their opponent is subhuman, and killing is not only possible, but laudable. Ignorance is needed on the side of the people, and corruption needed on the side of the leaders. If the people do not have a religion because you're a 20th century communist country, convince them their opponent is subhuman, a throwback to the dark days when the wisdom of communism was not obvious to all. All through history, major religions (if they wanted to stay major) have decided what was politically expedient to do - obviously that is not a coincidence. It's just using people's traditions, whatever they are, against them. When the tradionalists win out, and prevent a tragedy, it doesn't make the news because they tend to favor the negative stories, out of necessity (time constraint).
Education in arts - you favor it - could you explain why. What does it add?
Repressed thoughts and feelings - it depends on whether the particular practitioner was a shallow, cowardly thinker, or a more honest vigorous sort.
The hot dog - that was just an extreme example to point out, it doesn't hurt me if they think that, if they're being totally nice in other ways, let them believe whatever they want. If they think they're chickens, but I can use the eggs, then what's the problem? But I guess it was a bad example, because I agree, if I thought anyone believed that, I would keep an eye on all possible exits from the room any time I had to deal with them. This was my favorite religious themed food : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4562170.stm
As Ken just pointed out, if you read a poem or short story, the point is not necessarily to focus on the DETAIL. If you familiar with the contents of any number of 'holy scriptures' you will find there is a lot open to interpretation but the overall themes of love, family, justice, peace, joy of living, etc, are very prominent - if you can't see them it's like looking at your windshield and seeing only the flecks of dirt on it. Just look PAST them. I think you have only talked to extremist christians, or stupid ones, because they certainly aren't all as closeminded, rigid, and afraid of facts as your picture of them. Now I have dealt with extremist people like you describe, and I fully agree, they are "all that". If we have common ground, it is in opposing those actions and the mentality that lies behind them. It really angers me to see people use religion in the negative way you describe, and I have seen LOTS of it in my life, believe me. For years in fact (after witnessing some particularly wretched behaviour - doctors are evil and nonbelievers lives are worthless) I felt very negatively towards all religion, but I had to admit, I knew lots of people who were religious that I considered very reliable, honest, certainly highly intelligent and not shallow thinkers, not fooled by BS. Maybe there are ALREADY religious people in your life, people who you think highly of for possessing certain qualities you don't think can occur among 'religious' people. Just because they're not blathering on about how you can improve your life by adopting their fetish/fantasy/certainty, doesn't mean they don't exist. The stereotype of stupid religious people is maybe related to the fact that there are lots of stupid people out there. And if someone is simple-minded to START with, don't expect religion is gonna make them any smarter - they're more likely to fall for the bells-and-whistles of extremist religion.
The kind of extremist religion you describe, certainly does destabilize people's minds and makes them into sheep, easily manipulated into believing whatever is needed. By emphasising certain passages and interpretations, and ignoring the other 99% of the 'holy book', you can make people believe their opponent is subhuman, and killing is not only possible, but laudable. Ignorance is needed on the side of the people, and corruption needed on the side of the leaders. If the people do not have a religion because you're a 20th century communist country, convince them their opponent is subhuman, a throwback to the dark days when the wisdom of communism was not obvious to all. All through history, major religions (if they wanted to stay major) have decided what was politically expedient to do - obviously that is not a coincidence. It's just using people's traditions, whatever they are, against them. When the tradionalists win out, and prevent a tragedy, it doesn't make the news because they tend to favor the negative stories, out of necessity (time constraint).
Education in arts - you favor it - could you explain why. What does it add?
Repressed thoughts and feelings - it depends on whether the particular practitioner was a shallow, cowardly thinker, or a more honest vigorous sort.
The hot dog - that was just an extreme example to point out, it doesn't hurt me if they think that, if they're being totally nice in other ways, let them believe whatever they want. If they think they're chickens, but I can use the eggs, then what's the problem? But I guess it was a bad example, because I agree, if I thought anyone believed that, I would keep an eye on all possible exits from the room any time I had to deal with them. This was my favorite religious themed food : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4562170.stm
As Ken just pointed out, if you read a poem or short story, the point is not necessarily to focus on the DETAIL. If you familiar with the contents of any number of 'holy scriptures' you will find there is a lot open to interpretation but the overall themes of love, family, justice, peace, joy of living, etc, are very prominent - if you can't see them it's like looking at your windshield and seeing only the flecks of dirt on it. Just look PAST them. I think you have only talked to extremist christians, or stupid ones, because they certainly aren't all as closeminded, rigid, and afraid of facts as your picture of them. Now I have dealt with extremist people like you describe, and I fully agree, they are "all that". If we have common ground, it is in opposing those actions and the mentality that lies behind them. It really angers me to see people use religion in the negative way you describe, and I have seen LOTS of it in my life, believe me. For years in fact (after witnessing some particularly wretched behaviour - doctors are evil and nonbelievers lives are worthless) I felt very negatively towards all religion, but I had to admit, I knew lots of people who were religious that I considered very reliable, honest, certainly highly intelligent and not shallow thinkers, not fooled by BS. Maybe there are ALREADY religious people in your life, people who you think highly of for possessing certain qualities you don't think can occur among 'religious' people. Just because they're not blathering on about how you can improve your life by adopting their fetish/fantasy/certainty, doesn't mean they don't exist. The stereotype of stupid religious people is maybe related to the fact that there are lots of stupid people out there. And if someone is simple-minded to START with, don't expect religion is gonna make them any smarter - they're more likely to fall for the bells-and-whistles of extremist religion.
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BingoTheClowno
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Calm down!
Who did that? Can you be more specific?Liquid Len wrote: By emphasising certain passages and interpretations, and ignoring the other 99% of the 'holy book', you can make people believe their opponent is subhuman, and killing is not only possible, but laudable.
What? Why aren't you ignorant then?Liquid Len wrote: Ignorance is needed on the side of the people, and corruption needed on the side of the leaders.
Don't understand what you mean here.Liquid Len wrote: If the people do not have a religion because you're a 20th century communist country, convince them their opponent is subhuman, a throwback to the dark days when the wisdom of communism was not obvious to all.
What was politicaly expedient to do? Boil people alive? Burn them on stakes? Torturing them?Liquid Len wrote: All through history, major religions (if they wanted to stay major) have decided what was politically expedient to do - obviously that is not a coincidence.
Don't know, but I love it.Liquid Len wrote: Education in arts - you favor it - could you explain why. What does it add?
He couldn't have been a cowardly thinker since practitioners don't think, they practice.Liquid Len wrote: Repressed thoughts and feelings - it depends on whether the particular practitioner was a shallow, cowardly thinker, or a more honest vigorous sort.
You were the hot dog? Why would it hurt you, I cannot understand?Liquid Len wrote: The hot dog - that was just an extreme example to point out, it doesn't hurt me if they think that, if they're being totally nice in other ways, let them believe whatever they want.
A, no man, there's no chance I will ever waste my time with that piece of crap.Liquid Len wrote: As Ken just pointed out, if you read a poem or short story, the point is not necessarily to focus on the DETAIL. If you familiar with the contents of any number of 'holy scriptures' you will find there is a lot open to interpretation but the overall themes of love, family, justice, peace, joy of living, etc, are very prominent - if you can't see them it's like looking at your windshield and seeing only the flecks of dirt on it. Just look PAST them.
No one claimed that. I hope that's not your evidence of the existence of god.Liquid Len wrote: Maybe there are ALREADY religious people in your life, people who you think highly of for possessing certain qualities you don't think can occur among 'religious' people. Just because they're not blathering on about how you can improve your life by adopting their fetish/fantasy/certainty, doesn't mean they don't exist.
What religion do you identify with?Liquid Len wrote: The stereotype of stupid religious people is maybe related to the fact that there are lots of stupid people out there. And if someone is simple-minded to START with, don't expect religion is gonna make them any smarter - they're more likely to fall for the bells-and-whistles of extremist religion.
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hubird
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Liquid Len
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"Who did that? Can you be more specific?"
Saying that the new testament generally promotes more positive things than negative things, is not a specific statement, so the answer would be NO. Do you feel it is true? Have you read what's in the new testament, or are you like William Jennings Bryan who never seriously reads the book Origin of Species he is so sure is filled with vile lies? There is all kinds of stuff to disagree with, the bit about how it's 'meant' to be read is just one person's opinion.
There are old testament chapters that are nothing but ridiculous rules (they had conniption fits about the oddest things), but you can consider them early sanitation when we didn't have enough knowledge to know much better what causes diseases. You can thank science for the knowledge we have now. Instead of seeing the people who wrote that book as malevolently trying to shackle people into cruel injustices, they were just struggling to cope with all these mysterious things striking them down at random.
"What? Why aren't you ignorant then? "
I never said I wasn't ignorant. No one person is right all the time, and no one knows everything. But as far as I'm concerned, believing some of the things that organized religion claims, is Ignorant, and I'm at least not-Ignorant enough to know THAT. Why do you have such an angry, bitter tone? Why bother hating 'me'? You don't know me.
"Don't understand what you mean here."
The driving force was a political need, and either way people die. The religion wasn't really a factor, except that it was a tool to use at the time.
"What was politicaly expedient to do? Boil people alive? Burn them on stakes? Torturing them?"
The history of evil things done by religious people throughout history is undeniable! And stomach-turning. I'm saying the leaders of the church got corrupted (or were corrupt from the start in many cases). I'm not EXCUSING it, just stating a fact. This is what I am talking about, politics (money, intrigue, power) is corrupting and controlling religion, using it for its own ends. The religions that were left alone were the ones that cooperated, this is not a difficult thing to understand, is it? If you preached that the king wasn't divinely appointed, you would be considered an 'evil cult'. And I imagine that real true 'evil cults' existed back then, and talked up by the media (hear ye! hear ye!) so people would be easily convinced of the urgent need to stamp out this evil heresy. But whatever you choose to believe, it is NOT a central part of any religion's teaching, to torture and kill.
"He couldn't have been a cowardly thinker since practitioners don't think, they practice. "
This is simply nonsense. Religious practitioners are not subhuman, they have emotions and fall in love and miss their kids, and wake up tired and cranky, they're really human you know. They are fully capable of abstract thought. Many do not believe EVERYTHING they hear at their church (like the election issues), but just most of it (like the parts about loving your neighbor, even when he hurts you, don't be obsessed with revenge, work hard and don't cheat people, and be glad to live, and try see the good in everybody).
"You were the hot dog? Why would it hurt you, I cannot understand? "
Extremist religious people get very upset if you even THINK a wrong thought, oh my god, you had better not.
"No one claimed that. I hope that's not your evidence of the existence of god. "
What has that got to do with 'evidence for existence of God'? I meant there could be people you know that you think are intelligent and moral, yet unbeknownst to you, have some sort of religious or spiritual beliefs. I guess I can't PROVE their existence, if every single religious person you happen to meet has NO redeeming qualities at all. Sorry, that hasn't been my experience, I know lots of good people who actually attend church (awful!) though I tend to steer the conversation away from religion most of the time.
What religion do you identify with?
I have stated repeatedly that I am an agnostic, I guess if I was to pick a general direction, a lot of the principles in my life are clearly derived from the abrahamic tradition, judeo-christian-muslim (and greco-roman and what came before that). I don't know much about Buddhism but enough to know there's a bit of influence from it in our western culture as well. I do not believe Science is wrong any more than Math is wrong. There is a limit to the territory it is able to explore, by its own definition. Why am I agnostic and not atheist? For reasons that are probably more metaphysical than the norm, which seems to be more based on emotional feeling.
Saying that the new testament generally promotes more positive things than negative things, is not a specific statement, so the answer would be NO. Do you feel it is true? Have you read what's in the new testament, or are you like William Jennings Bryan who never seriously reads the book Origin of Species he is so sure is filled with vile lies? There is all kinds of stuff to disagree with, the bit about how it's 'meant' to be read is just one person's opinion.
There are old testament chapters that are nothing but ridiculous rules (they had conniption fits about the oddest things), but you can consider them early sanitation when we didn't have enough knowledge to know much better what causes diseases. You can thank science for the knowledge we have now. Instead of seeing the people who wrote that book as malevolently trying to shackle people into cruel injustices, they were just struggling to cope with all these mysterious things striking them down at random.
"What? Why aren't you ignorant then? "
I never said I wasn't ignorant. No one person is right all the time, and no one knows everything. But as far as I'm concerned, believing some of the things that organized religion claims, is Ignorant, and I'm at least not-Ignorant enough to know THAT. Why do you have such an angry, bitter tone? Why bother hating 'me'? You don't know me.
"Don't understand what you mean here."
The driving force was a political need, and either way people die. The religion wasn't really a factor, except that it was a tool to use at the time.
"What was politicaly expedient to do? Boil people alive? Burn them on stakes? Torturing them?"
The history of evil things done by religious people throughout history is undeniable! And stomach-turning. I'm saying the leaders of the church got corrupted (or were corrupt from the start in many cases). I'm not EXCUSING it, just stating a fact. This is what I am talking about, politics (money, intrigue, power) is corrupting and controlling religion, using it for its own ends. The religions that were left alone were the ones that cooperated, this is not a difficult thing to understand, is it? If you preached that the king wasn't divinely appointed, you would be considered an 'evil cult'. And I imagine that real true 'evil cults' existed back then, and talked up by the media (hear ye! hear ye!) so people would be easily convinced of the urgent need to stamp out this evil heresy. But whatever you choose to believe, it is NOT a central part of any religion's teaching, to torture and kill.
"He couldn't have been a cowardly thinker since practitioners don't think, they practice. "
This is simply nonsense. Religious practitioners are not subhuman, they have emotions and fall in love and miss their kids, and wake up tired and cranky, they're really human you know. They are fully capable of abstract thought. Many do not believe EVERYTHING they hear at their church (like the election issues), but just most of it (like the parts about loving your neighbor, even when he hurts you, don't be obsessed with revenge, work hard and don't cheat people, and be glad to live, and try see the good in everybody).
"You were the hot dog? Why would it hurt you, I cannot understand? "
Extremist religious people get very upset if you even THINK a wrong thought, oh my god, you had better not.
"No one claimed that. I hope that's not your evidence of the existence of god. "
What has that got to do with 'evidence for existence of God'? I meant there could be people you know that you think are intelligent and moral, yet unbeknownst to you, have some sort of religious or spiritual beliefs. I guess I can't PROVE their existence, if every single religious person you happen to meet has NO redeeming qualities at all. Sorry, that hasn't been my experience, I know lots of good people who actually attend church (awful!) though I tend to steer the conversation away from religion most of the time.
What religion do you identify with?
I have stated repeatedly that I am an agnostic, I guess if I was to pick a general direction, a lot of the principles in my life are clearly derived from the abrahamic tradition, judeo-christian-muslim (and greco-roman and what came before that). I don't know much about Buddhism but enough to know there's a bit of influence from it in our western culture as well. I do not believe Science is wrong any more than Math is wrong. There is a limit to the territory it is able to explore, by its own definition. Why am I agnostic and not atheist? For reasons that are probably more metaphysical than the norm, which seems to be more based on emotional feeling.
Last edited by Liquid Len on Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BingoTheClowno
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Liquid Len
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No, from what I can tell, Hub doesn't like that style of argumentation (cutting a post into separate points, so you can address them individually). He has different opinions than you and me on this particular subject - which is heresy.BingoTheClowno wrote:Are you implying that I try to distort the meaning of what was said?hubird wrote:ah, quoting loose sentenses plus specific comments on them...that's mostly the end of...
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BingoTheClowno
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OK, this isn't working. You either play the fool or are an hypocrite.Liquid Len wrote:"Who did that? Can you be more specific?"
Saying that the new testament generally promotes more positive things than negative things, is not a specific statement, so the answer would be NO. Do you feel it is true?
This is what you said: "By emphasising certain passages and interpretations, and ignoring the other 99% of the 'holy book', you can make people believe their opponent is subhuman, and killing is not only possible, but laudable. "
What I asked for and still am, is who does that? Can you give concrete examples?
Then why continue this discussion? What more can you add?Liquid Len wrote: "What? Why aren't you ignorant then? "
I never said I wasn't ignorant.
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Liquid Len
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Yeesh. Your original question was a general 'can you explain this more', the second time you ask 'who'. I avoided answering 'who' just to avoid more stupid controversy (catholics did this! protestants do that!) but for you to make it out like I've been avoiding this question time after time, man, switch to decaf.OK, this isn't working. You either play the fool or are an hypocrite.
This is what you said: "By emphasising certain passages and interpretations, and ignoring the other 99% of the 'holy book', you can make people believe their opponent is subhuman, and killing is not only possible, but laudable. "
What I asked for and still am, is who does that? Can you give concrete examples?
I expected a bit of cultural awareness (from someone who has evidently seen such a variety of things). You are really as unfamiliar with religion and its role in history as this? As for WHO did WHAT to twist things, I don't want to start naming specific organized religions, how they've diverged from what teachings are there, and open THAT can of worms. It would take a BOOK to convince you because it would take a BOOK to outline a case. You really feel there is more violence and hate in the bible than peace and love, that the real focus of the koran is on ignorance and meanness, not openness, acceptance, tolerance? I'm not going to argue about what's not in a book, to someone who refuses to even read what's in a book. Don't assume I'm saying "read it so you can join that faith" either.
A few minutes of googling produces :
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.
I'm not going to stay up all night trying to think of more examples. Don't bother telling me the bible, or koran, is all negative and silly rules, if you haven't read any of it yourself. The majority of it is positive not negative.
Because to be honest no matter how ignorant I am, I am 100% certain (ok, 99.99% certain) you are MORE ignorant (at least in some regards). For someone who constantly belittles people, you seem to have a shallow grasp of what you're talking about, and are really much closer to the people you hate than you can perceive right now. We often get upset when we see, or think we see, things in other people that we hate in ourselves...Then why continue this discussion? What more can you add?
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BingoTheClowno
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You sure sound MORE superior.Liquid Len wrote: For someone who constantly belittles people, you seem to have a shallow grasp of what you're talking about
Obviously your ignorance and perceived cultural superiority permits you to lie with impunity and accuse me of wrongfulnesses without any shred of evidence besides your own oppinion. This is not only shallow but also immoral, precisely how religion works.
Last edited by BingoTheClowno on Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BingoTheClowno
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ok
ha!, sir. and again i say hah!.
you may feel that you are being clever, but i see it as mean. this is just an internet message board. you are entitled to your opinion, and i really don't care if you think there's a god or not. if there isn't one, you'll be fine, or maybe not. if there is one, you may or may not be fine. there's no problem there.
where there's a problem is when it comes to your fanatical fervor to convince others on this message board that the idea of god is a mental illness. that is as inappropriate as a jehova's witness telling everyone on this message board that they are all damned to hell if they don't believe as he does. that's not good because the whole purpose of this site is so that users of scope can exchange info about their favorite sound card(creamware/soniccore). there are many people here with many ideas that you or i may be violently opposed to, but that are very normal to others. expressing your opinion about such things is certainly ok(there's this off topic area), but everyone needs to be able to participate in good humor, to not spoil the vibe.
you're laughable when you say "no personal attacks" or "Obviously your ignorance and perceived cultural superiority permits you to lie with impunity and accuse me of wrongfulnesses without any shred of evidence besides your own oppinion.", as this is exactly what you've done to me with your hillarious assumptions about my religion earlier in this thread or your assertation that garyb=stardust, a very faulty equation.
so it's no personal attack what i wrote, without using your name, because it works generally. it's just that you saw properly, that in this thread, it describes you. the truth is not an offense. and i meant what i said when i said that i'm not your enemy and when i said "i forgive you, you're only human.".
i don't even disagree with you about the offences done in god's name or the mess that's been done when the roman emporer constantine codified the bible, or the period known as the dark ages when it was said to be all about Jesus and some supposed abrahamic faith based on the bible, even though reading the bible was punishable by death and many bad things were done by priests working for the government in the name of god. i don't like that stuff either. i just also don't like hating all the people in a group. it's those mostly nice people(because most people are really pretty nice at heart, even if they've learned to be jerks) who are the only hope for a resolution to all these problems.
have a good night. don't troll.
and by the way, i saw this posted somewhere else, but it's appropo-
Moa chinese communist leader kill tally =70 million DEAD(atheist)
Stalin communist kill tally= 30 to 60 million DEAD(atheist)
Polpot communist kill tally= 3 to 4 million dead(atheist)
Lenin kill tally= 10 million dead(atheist)
Trotsky communist butcher= millions dead(atheist)
Kim Jong=millions dead(atheist)
i suspect these guys were actually worshippers of the self which is evolving into god(satanists). the satanists on this board can explain how they believe there is neither god, nor devil, only levels of intelligence and will....
A popular Christian phrase is "Hate the sin not the sinner".
I reply:
Hate religion, not the religious.
Some people seem to have glass balls. There is a place for anger. When all is well in the world, we can talk about how wonderful people are. Life without hate would be insipid and bland. You can not have a serious debate without stepping on toes. The title of this thread makes it clear what it is about and the tone. If you don't like that, you don't need to participate in it.
I reply:
Hate religion, not the religious.
Some people seem to have glass balls. There is a place for anger. When all is well in the world, we can talk about how wonderful people are. Life without hate would be insipid and bland. You can not have a serious debate without stepping on toes. The title of this thread makes it clear what it is about and the tone. If you don't like that, you don't need to participate in it.
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Liquid Len
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You sure sound MORE superior.
Obviously your ignorance and perceived cultural superiority permits you to lie with impunity and accuse me of wrongfulnesses without any shred of evidence besides your own oppinion. This is not only shallow but also immoral, precisely how religion works.
Gee, do the words I type have a sound? Do they have a color as well? That's just Ridiculous. Your superior, I'm smarter than all those stupid fools attitude, is present from the start of this thread. And you go on how superior or elitist someone else sounds? Read those words, I'm just puzzled how you don't see how they apply to yourself. I'll say it again, I am very familiar with the conversation style of religious extremists, and the stuff you come out with is the same old, same old. Go on about how ignorant or elitist I am, how my personal flaws are proved by the fact I don't agree with your self-evident doctrines, that doesn't hurt me, been there, done that. I feel the range of what you write indicates just how deep your grasp of these issues really is. You clearly WANT religious people to be judgemental and cruel, etc, so you have a REASON to hate and despise them. And when they don't react to these catchphrases that you think are their hot-button issues (everyone knows those people don't like it when ~~~~), you become sulky and whiny, because you missed a chance to hate, but your gun is loaded and your finger is itchy. SO much like intolerant religious people I know. Most of what I've written you don't read, most of the questions I've asked you are unanswered, because it doesn't give you an occasion to personally attack me, and therefore is 'irrelevant' or 'pointless nonsense'.
I remember one conversation I had with a fundamentalist baptist, for half an hour I put up with his constant put downs, insults, and insinuations and tried to explain what tolerance is and why it is needed. At the end he just blew up : "you're just afraid to stand up for what you believe in". Completely, comically absent from his mind was the idea that if I was so afraid, then I would have just agreed with him from the start and saved myself lots of insults. It was so obvious but he could not see it because his mind worked only on a black/white level, and any thought that led too far from his comfort zone was simply not let past the gate.
I don't take this board so seriously. I see it as a way to sharpen wits, to maybe see some truth that's evaded me, if not just mindless blather for minor entertainment, that's all. You haven't convinced me that all religious people are insane, your neon signs are flashy but they make the same message over and over. But you have made me wonder "do I come across like that to religious people?".
Obviously your ignorance and perceived cultural superiority permits you to lie with impunity and accuse me of wrongfulnesses without any shred of evidence besides your own oppinion. This is not only shallow but also immoral, precisely how religion works.
Gee, do the words I type have a sound? Do they have a color as well? That's just Ridiculous. Your superior, I'm smarter than all those stupid fools attitude, is present from the start of this thread. And you go on how superior or elitist someone else sounds? Read those words, I'm just puzzled how you don't see how they apply to yourself. I'll say it again, I am very familiar with the conversation style of religious extremists, and the stuff you come out with is the same old, same old. Go on about how ignorant or elitist I am, how my personal flaws are proved by the fact I don't agree with your self-evident doctrines, that doesn't hurt me, been there, done that. I feel the range of what you write indicates just how deep your grasp of these issues really is. You clearly WANT religious people to be judgemental and cruel, etc, so you have a REASON to hate and despise them. And when they don't react to these catchphrases that you think are their hot-button issues (everyone knows those people don't like it when ~~~~), you become sulky and whiny, because you missed a chance to hate, but your gun is loaded and your finger is itchy. SO much like intolerant religious people I know. Most of what I've written you don't read, most of the questions I've asked you are unanswered, because it doesn't give you an occasion to personally attack me, and therefore is 'irrelevant' or 'pointless nonsense'.
I remember one conversation I had with a fundamentalist baptist, for half an hour I put up with his constant put downs, insults, and insinuations and tried to explain what tolerance is and why it is needed. At the end he just blew up : "you're just afraid to stand up for what you believe in". Completely, comically absent from his mind was the idea that if I was so afraid, then I would have just agreed with him from the start and saved myself lots of insults. It was so obvious but he could not see it because his mind worked only on a black/white level, and any thought that led too far from his comfort zone was simply not let past the gate.
I don't take this board so seriously. I see it as a way to sharpen wits, to maybe see some truth that's evaded me, if not just mindless blather for minor entertainment, that's all. You haven't convinced me that all religious people are insane, your neon signs are flashy but they make the same message over and over. But you have made me wonder "do I come across like that to religious people?".
Hey Bingo, you got the topic of this thread wrong. It should say:
'Man is not great : how Hate poisons everything'
Read the FAQs for info on how to edit your post title.
All I will say is that your ignorance and pomposity is embarrassing and ugly to watch.
I strongly advise you to educate yourself (and I don't just mean what your government decides it's safe for you to know) because you really make yourself look like an idiot. Note that I'm not saying you are an idiot, but you sure are doing a great job convincing everyone that you are one.
'Man is not great : how Hate poisons everything'
Read the FAQs for info on how to edit your post title.
All I will say is that your ignorance and pomposity is embarrassing and ugly to watch.
I strongly advise you to educate yourself (and I don't just mean what your government decides it's safe for you to know) because you really make yourself look like an idiot. Note that I'm not saying you are an idiot, but you sure are doing a great job convincing everyone that you are one.