What is your best reverb

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:43 am

Damn Grok, how much money did Magix pay you for this?!

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:50 am

Nothing, I just admire the product and its qualities. It is so astonishingly good, it is a such perfection that I want them to sell a lot, and also I'm a good man who likes to help his neighbours, so I feel I must talk about this soft.

And Magix is the first audiosoft company to have understood the needs of many musicians and sound engineers, with the formula "Sam for Rent". I applause them for that, also.

How many high-end surround reverbs do you know at this price?

Samplitude Professional 7 is so good that it drives me mad; more tracks, more plugins with the same computer. High stability. Quickness. Absolute sound quality. Quick ergonomy. Ok I stop making advertisements for them, just check Samplitude Professional 7 by yourselves and I'm sure you'll be amazed as I am. A soft like this should be a best-seller.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:59 am

Is it better than Cubase SX?

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 7:41 pm

For FXes and audio works, I think it's a way better; for MIDI, there's no score edit in Samplitude.

That's only my opinion (and some others opinion too); don't believe me but check it by yourselves!

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:55 am

Well, you've certainly interested me, and I never use the score edit anyway...
Just no money at the moment (no not even 40 a month! I'm still paying off other gear each month)

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:57 am

I vote for SoundForge6 Acoustic Mirror too - in the environments that I can recognise from personal experience the reality of the impulse sound is very impressive.

But it's true that it eats masses of CPU power. On the other hand it comes with SoundForge6 and that's an extremely useful product for any sound manipulator to have.

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:33 am

http://www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/top ... IC_ID=1846

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:06 am

Very useful link, thank you Sandrob

sandrob · Post by **sandrob** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:08 pm

yes, the best audio forum around. i see your name. you are uad's forum member now. do you have uad-1 or you have sam(thing) to rent?! he, he

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:21 pm

I don't have and don't intend to buy an UAD...SFP and Samplitude Professional 7 (the second one is a sound engineer dream comes true

UAD would be too much in my setup

But the link is very very useful; I found some answers in

_________________
Toujours l'Amour!

[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2003-02-13 04:57 ]

Sunshine · Post by **Sunshine** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:43 pm

Grok, did you find sonic advantages whith the Samplitude IR program or were it the parameters that impressed you ?

I wished we had something similar on the Creamware platform....

Bernhard/

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:55 pm

The sonic advantages are evident, everyone can hear it, the convolution based reverbs are the best...

I am totally impressed by the Room simulator. 4 days now that I own Samplitude Professional 7, and this reverb drives me crazy. I have sold my Masterverb Pro for 100€.

What impresses me in the Room Simulator is the absolute sonic quality for sure(that practiqually all the convolution reverbs have) and much much more:

1) the optimisation of the process: today I have run 3 working instances of the Room Simulator in real time in a Samplitude's VIP project. It is incredible for a convolution reverb. Why is it incredible? Because my CPU is a poor Athlon 700 MHz Slot A 1st generation!!!

With this CPU I just can't run one instance of the famous Sonic Foundry's Acoustic Mirror in real time! With the Acoustic Mirror I must process offline!

2) the intuitiveness of the parameters of the Samplitude's Room Simulator. With this tool, it seems that imagination prevails! I can model a reverb as I want without having several dozens of numerical parameters to tweak like it is with high end hardware reverbs. The use of the Room Simulator is tremendously simple for tremendous results! I've told you: it drives me crazy, I'm so happy to work with this tool!

3) the reverbs and ambiances made simplistically with the Room Simulator are so good and realistic that you can simulate microphones positions in a real room with it

Must I say that with this reverb I'm the happiest man on earth?

Now I just have to buy an Athlon Barton XP 2800+ with an nforce2 (Asus A7N8X for example), and 1 GB of DDR 333 in double canal, and I'll be the King of the multitrack mixing!

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:59 pm

On 2003-02-10 13:43, Sunshine wrote:
Grok, did you find sonic advantages whith the Samplitude IR program or were it the parameters that impressed you ?

I wished we had something similar on the Creamware platform....

Bernhard/

Unfortunately, convolution is not possible with the actual CW cards because of the lack of sufficient onboard Ram. These cards were conceived at a time when Ram was expensive...

_________________
Toujours l'Amour!

[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2003-02-10 18:01 ]

Sunshine · Post by **Sunshine** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:46 am

Thanks a lot for you reply Grok, I know Samp pretty well and they always have had a IR thing somewhere in the menu, but it was destructive. The reason why Samplitude things generally seem to work a little better is that they are better programmed. At least that´s what the tech-support told me. Samp is written in "Assembler" (Machine oriented program language). Programs that were programmed in assembler mainly exploit Kernel-routines better than non assembler programmed apps. Hey, I´m no specialist that´s just what they told me

Don´t you think that the sound-quality of a IR app. predominantly has to do whith the way the IR was recorded (mics, micpositions, micpre, converter, ...)? I mean more than the app itself ?

Bernhard/

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:30 am

Don´t you think that the sound-quality of a IR app. predominantly has to do whith the way the IR was recorded (mics, micpositions, micpre, converter, ...)? I mean more than the app itself ?

I may sound idiot but... what is an IR app ???

Here on apps (that I don't know are IR or not (VST, SX, Acid, Soundforge) there are slight but noticeable differences in the recorded sound with the same machines (i talk about recording "from the outside, ie mics, guitars etc...). Especially when comparing VST to ACID, or VST to SX...

Sunshine · Post by **Sunshine** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:24 pm

Hehehe....no, whith "IR" I´ve meant "Impulse Response". Applications like "Acoustic Mirror", "SIR" or the one which included in Samplitude right now.

SpaceF, you are one of those Software pregrammers, aren´t you? Is there really no way to make such a thing work on the Creamware platform (Scope/Powerpulsar has Ram onboard)?

Bernhard/

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:52 pm

or couldn't they make it to utilize system ram instead?

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:58 pm

No way, the topic has been discussed here one year ago (unfortunately I don't have the link)

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:42 pm

Don´t you think that the sound-quality of a IR app. predominantly has to do whith the way the IR was recorded (mics, micpositions, micpre, converter, ...)? I mean more than the app itself ?

Bernhard/

For sure the Impulse Responses have to be carefully made if the wanted results are realistic acoustic spaces, or reproductions of high end hardware reverbs and other audio stuffs.

The Sonic Foundry's IR are perfects, and the 490 MB of IR included in the Samplitude's CD are too (they have done it perfectly well at Magix, with carefully choosen techniques), I guess the Mac's Altiverb has also very good IR.

But the Samplitude's Room Simulator is on top of all others convolution based reverbs, for the reasons I wrote above...Simplicity, intuitiveness, quick and fabulous results, realtime with a little CPU use (with no doubt the smallest CPU use of all the current convolution reverbs) also the possibility of equalizing the reverb with a linear phase FFT equalizer in a wink of an eye (30 000 band of linear phase equalization with a drawing curve), check it!...

The free SIR is pleasant, but it can't be compared with the actual Room Simulator

The AudioEase Altiverb on Mac is demanding on CPU and has only the reverb time and pre delay parameters. The Room Simulator goes far beyond than that and allows the complete modelling of the reverb; Early reflections, Late reverb, reverb length with time stretching, Spectral Edit with FFT, drawing the level of the IR; these 5 parameters combined with the nature of the IR allows all the combinations that can ever be wanted for a reverb! Without the hassle to have several dozens of parameters to tweak like it is the case with high end hardware reverbs!

I worked with the SFP's Masterverb Pro and sold it; I can assure you that working with the Room Simulator is better and easier in all the conceivable ways.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:46 pm

SpaceF, you are one of those Software pregrammers, aren´t you? Is there really no way to make such a thing work on the Creamware platform (Scope/Powerpulsar has Ram onboard)?

I know little about building reverbs. I don't really know how those reverbs work. It is possible that more ram allows to do such a thing but I'm not sure. What can't be done is to (for ex) to take an "image" of the frequency spectrum and remap it to different parameters/frequencies. I guess that's how i would make my own verbs if i could, in an "optical" way but i don't think it is doable in DP right now.

After ram comes the dsp problem: when i try simple vst/dx plugins, it seems that the better quality = the more consuming on cpu. I guess that's because it is an addition of delays and filters etc, but until what limit ?
I think a good reverb would be actually 3 or more reverbs in the same device : 1 for bass, 1 for medium, 1 for trebles, and parameters of one of them interacts with the others in a certain way that is different than just putting a 3 band separator on the reverb outputs.
If you have experienced long natural reverbs, you may have noticed that in general, the bass decays much slower than the trebles, that the delays or reflection are very diffezrent on different frequencies, and so on. I was glad to find an application of those prinicple in the small reverb vst plugin (i'll post the link in next post) : it was something that I always been surprised not to find in reverbs, except this one, but only on 2 bands (bass/treble). And as I use it a lot now, i can tell you that it takes a very lot more cpu ressources than, for ex, the SX reverbs, or may be even trueverb (that i don't use anymore so i couldn't really compare).
On the other hands, the crappiest reverb can be the best choice on some sounds...

(see next post)

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2003-02-11 13:53 ]