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From the article: Wimmer, the former State Secretary in the Federal Minister of Defense (1988 to 1992), and former deputy of the German Bundestag (1976 to 2009).

Thought you didn't believe politicians anymore, Bud Weiser

I hoped for your own thoughts.
I’m even doubting you recognised my confessed solidarity with the people who suffer most from capitalism and were a long time put aside in politics because of political correctness.

There's only one aspect we agree to disagree, and that's the radical conspiracy view.
Is that a problem?
Now it looks like you just told me how we have to look at things, Garyb confirms it, you confirm Gary, and the door is closed.
With flowers for the help of a the other two usual suspects.

Well, I liked the way you didn't try to push me into conspiracy, and I on my turn showed you I wasn't after a discussion about it.
I was pleased with that conversation style, as it makes further conversation possible.

Anyway, my interpretation was wrong, and the conversation was more or less meant to be one-direction.

To my feelings this looks poor.
Or immature.


My conclusion?
Funny guys, those conspiracy lovers.
Just a bit clan-oriented.
You have to be with them or you get encapsulated and set aside.
Two of them being forum officials, which even enlarges the effect on the forum essentially.


I can only ascertain that the climate on our international Planetz is suffocating.
Bud Weiser and I are neighbours in culture, and look at the distance created here.
As if I'm leprous.
As if Planetz is a place to create a typical gathering atmosphere excluding the non-believers.
Get adult folks.


And check me out Bud, ISDS won't make it

conspiracy?
no, it's just a system. i don't understand what it is that hubird is upset about. i never said anything against anyone in this thread, anyway.

my jab about "control freak" wasn't about this thread, necessarily. we all have our own personalities. it's no big deal.

One thing I totally despise is when these world "leaders" involve themselves in more attempts to make the world as they wish, creating even a bigger crisis, leading to deaths and displacements if they would have just shut their fucking mouths.
There's a movie here in the USA nobody really watched even though a popular actress was in it trying to show Americans what life south of our fake border is like.
She was doing a real story about a female journalist posing as an immigrant wanting to see what crossing into America illegally entailed.
She saw the real world. She was held captive for over a week, repeatedly raped and drugged without her consent.
Which led to the watered down version of the documentary/movie.

When wealthy white Liberals want to be elected, they often promise rivers of homey, everything is free, and spur emotions from people they con like we see in those puppy and kittens commercials that take in 190,000,000 from emotional Americans, but less than 10% of the money goes to the puppies or kittens.

Case in point:
Bill Clinton wanted votes, so gives big speeches about Haitian refugees to make everybody go......Awww, he really cares about the poor and unwanted......awwww....
Reality:
Haitians hear this, pack into rafts made from wood and set off to America.
Hundreds die in the dangerous journey, but does anyone think any lesson was learned..?
Nope, more concerned about power, control and a career spanning decades of "service."

Obama did the same exact thing by messaging to Central Americans everything was free up here.
The Humane thing to do is Fly down a few dozen C147 Cargo Planes and pack them with these poor people as life down there in Honduras and Guatemala is truly desperate as Drug Gangs fight for control of the trade that Americans spend billions on.

Here's what the journey to a better life is like without the C147 coming to the USA.

Cross over illegally into Mexico.
Border Guards take everything of value to let you get on the roof of a train.
During the train ride some mother can no longer keep their eyes open, their infants crawl away, some fall off of the train and die, nobody knows where and nobody cares.
Now the survivors get to Northern Mexico, and the furious cartel coyotes upset there's no more money left often have fun with the young girls since they want something for their troubles.
That is the reality and it is not very pleasant.

Do the rich white Liberals and Obama try to stop this...?
Why would they, their concern is the symbol of a kind and gentle leadership and a party that stands for this and that.
They feel no remorse for their bull shit that resulted in so much tragedy, but why would they, the concern is winning an election.
Importing poverty is nothing new to the USA.
My family immigrated here after the Spanish American War and pre 1904 Worlds Fair in St.Louis.
But they didn't get raped, beaten drugged or robbed on the way, even though they had nothing and were still accepted.

Someday I hope we get of politicians altogether.
They are the most dangerous of all humans as they believe their degrees in make believe land at some University makes them special....

Im not well enough informed on European immigration policy to say anything, but what I do see that is truly terrible is to encourage these dangerous trips for people knowing the journey is really dangerous.
If you really want to help, then help damn it.
Don't make these people suffer like this just so they can be looked down upon if they even survive the journey.

Politicians should always have to participate in any programs they pass to see the effects of said program or any other decision based on their "emotions" or desire to be electable...

Hubird:

With the outrageous accusations and lies you have spread about me in this forum not long ago (so serious you could be jailed for), I came to finally realized, entirely and definitely, that you are a genuine troll. Not someone to be called “a troll” just like that, no…, you really, really ARE a troll! Well done brother, your perseverance finally have paid you back! You did it!

Your outrageous accusations (it is good for you to realize it), could have been very easily used against you through legal procedures that would take me only two minutes or so to be sent to the proper places, as they are more than a serious cause to ban you from this forum or any other forum in the world, and more, I could bring you to justice if I wanted to. You should thank Gary for still being here, yes, the guy you are always bothering with your sarcasm.

I have been in touch with thousands of people from many cultures, languages and countries, and so people with appallingly different points of view about life, religion, politics, etc., and they could nevertheless understand each other, but I have never before come across someone with your particular pretended arrogant super-civilized mind characteristics. You cannot see it brother, that’s pretty obvious, otherwise you would be ashamed of yourself… But even if you don’t see it, I do. You are immersed in the uttermost state of recklessness possible I have ever seen in anyone, so locked within your own “beloved self” that you cannot longer listen or respect anyone, except, of course, your “beloved and honorable self”. You are a narcissist! To be a narcissist it is not a good thing, it is bad!

And of course, you have accustomed us to the idea that you always know better than anyone else, you, the super instructed European super-citizen out of touch, you the super learned one, but.... you cannot respect anyone.... What a joke! Don't you see the contradiction?

What I really dislike of you, beyond anything else, is that you are a double-dealer, a quisling, you are someone not to be trust. You could easily be a traitor in a difficult situation I still am trying to believe and conceive the false accusations you posted here about my person, that was daring and unbelievable! Unbelievable!


I have given you many chances within myself, yes, many times... but not anymore, my catalogue is already written about you! You have been exiled from my world forever, you, "big one". It is sad, but you have become a hateful, bad person Hubird. At the beginning, I thought you were only injudicious and liked fighting with words, but I seriously understand you are evil because you don’t mind to use anything to win your ridiculously childish fights, even if you have to HARM others to achieve so. I hope a ray of light would enlighten your thoughts so you can see it for yourself, that could help you so much! This is despicable brother, there is not another name for it, it is a despicable behaviour. You are malicious and paradoxically, extremely naïf…, what a mixture!

But of course, and this is what makes this cocktail really repulsive, is that you firmly believe to be in the top of human evolution with your “beloved self” and your endoctrination, with your “super ego” you evidentely love so very much!

I will talk to you only in “the future”, when all the things I have said come true in front of your eyes, so you will have to forcefully accept that your super-civilized information was wrong.

BTW: Do not send me private messages full of double-dealing intensions again, please, I will not read them, they will always be deleted unread. I have been really comfortable not reading you for about two years before, until recently when I included you again in my readings. Believe me, I will again be conformable not reading you.

I hope people around you can in some way give you some love, some human help as to cure your heart from its hardness, you are the one who is suffering kipping this heavy stone within yourself, not us, just through it out brother.

I hope you will receive a bath of tenderness and softness so your hart becomes softer and lighter, and so you can breathe some new air, new perspectives and angles of life, so you yourself become more alive, with the possibility to forget about the old and start living a new refreshing life.

I hope you can start feeling some appreciation for those you see minor to you, those you believe are unimportant and are below your social structure and genetics, so you can open your experience to millions of new and wonderful impressions.

I hope you could have a travel to Africa, for instance, and getting lost into the tiniest towns over there, have the joy to live together and coexist with these simple, wonderful people that would certainly surprise you, chancing radically your view about life, people and interrelations. You would realize that “to know” it is not “to be”, and that there are people happier than you may think, even if they don’t have what you have and do not know what you know.

I hope you could have, finally, a better life, somehow, a ray of light coming from whatever place and for whatever reason that would make you understand, without any violence, that the path you have taken is wrong, that in this way you are taking the risk of finishing your life alone, without people around you, because you will fight and fight with all of them, and so they will naturally go away.

I hope some deep realizations come into your heart, soul and spirit brother, some deep game changing understandings about human nature, and, most of all, about your own self.

Finally, I wish you real fulfilment and happiness.

Nice read Dawman.
Be aware of the fact that the crisis of the political system of the US differs from that of Europe for instance.
We share the polarisation, but the people in the street in Europe want the securities of the old welfare state back, with strong gouvernments with a nationalistic focus and repair of the old public services.
There is distrust in politics in general, but it's also true that a lot of new nationalistic parties are doing well.
Meaning: the system works to some degree, the voices are heard, also in Germany now with the AfD, the Abendland' party.
The overall hate to the political establishment by Americans is a' local' phenomenon, consisting of a jammed political system and historical sentiments about the relationship between citizen and government, which should be minimal.
In Europe it's more complicated, or different.

I must admit, I would feel quite desperate about the polarized political system if I was an American.
That's why I was pleasantly surprised to see a Berny Sanders on the scene.
A confessed socialist as a serious candidate, wow, that's new.

dawman wrote: Im not well enough informed on European immigration policy to say anything, but what I do see that is truly terrible is to encourage these dangerous trips for people knowing the journey is really dangerous.
If you really want to help, then help damn it.
Don't make these people suffer like this just so they can be looked down upon if they even survive the journey.

That's why they just set up a regular scheme to fly them over to Europe after screening them in Turkey on being a real war refugy
It's a political compromise, which is better than war, and it will stop the boat trips from Turkey's coastline at least
Yes, the Lybia route is next, but one thing at a time please

dawman wrote:Politicians should always have to participate in any programs they pass to see the effects of said program or any other decision based on their "emotions" or desire to be electable...

If you care about the ordinary people -and I believe you do- and possibly can get rid of the old political clans, then try Sanders

dawman wrote:One thing I totally despise is when these world "leaders" involve themselves in more attempts to make the world as they wish, creating even a bigger crisis, leading to deaths and displacements if they would have just shut their fucking mouths.
There's a movie here in the USA nobody really watched even though a popular actress was in it trying to show Americans what life south of our fake border is like.
She was doing a real story about a female journalist posing as an immigrant wanting to see what crossing into America illegally entailed.
She saw the real world. She was held captive for over a week, repeatedly raped and drugged without her consent.
Which led to the watered down version of the documentary/movie.

When wealthy white Liberals want to be elected, they often promise rivers of homey, everything is free, and spur emotions from people they con like we see in those puppy and kittens commercials that take in 190,000,000 from emotional Americans, but less than 10% of the money goes to the puppies or kittens.

Case in point:
Bill Clinton wanted votes, so gives big speeches about Haitian refugees to make everybody go......Awww, he really cares about the poor and unwanted......awwww....
Reality:
Haitians hear this, pack into rafts made from wood and set off to America.
Hundreds die in the dangerous journey, but does anyone think any lesson was learned..?
Nope, more concerned about power, control and a career spanning decades of "service."

Obama did the same exact thing by messaging to Central Americans everything was free up here.
The Humane thing to do is Fly down a few dozen C147 Cargo Planes and pack them with these poor people as life down there in Honduras and Guatemala is truly desperate as Drug Gangs fight for control of the trade that Americans spend billions on.

Here's what the journey to a better life is like without the C147 coming to the USA.

Cross over illegally into Mexico.
Border Guards take everything of value to let you get on the roof of a train.
During the train ride some mother can no longer keep their eyes open, their infants crawl away, some fall off of the train and die, nobody knows where and nobody cares.
Now the survivors get to Northern Mexico, and the furious cartel coyotes upset there's no more money left often have fun with the young girls since they want something for their troubles.
That is the reality and it is not very pleasant.

Do the rich white Liberals and Obama try to stop this...?
Why would they, their concern is the symbol of a kind and gentle leadership and a party that stands for this and that.
They feel no remorse for their bull shit that resulted in so much tragedy, but why would they, the concern is winning an election.
Importing poverty is nothing new to the USA.
My family immigrated here after the Spanish American War and pre 1904 Worlds Fair in St.Louis.
But they didn't get raped, beaten drugged or robbed on the way, even though they had nothing and were still accepted.

Someday I hope we get of politicians altogether.
They are the most dangerous of all humans as they believe their degrees in make believe land at some University makes them special....

Im not well enough informed on European immigration policy to say anything, but what I do see that is truly terrible is to encourage these dangerous trips for people knowing the journey is really dangerous.
If you really want to help, then help damn it.
Don't make these people suffer like this just so they can be looked down upon if they even survive the journey.

Politicians should always have to participate in any programs they pass to see the effects of said program or any other decision based on their "emotions" or desire to be electable...

So true brother, egoism all the way. I couldn’t agree more... These people are capable of anything for their power...

I was a Ron Paul supporter.
Any candidate after that who exposes the corruption and lies of either of these 2 false parties gets my vote.
Right now we see the very same billionaires, multi national corporations and even foreign Governments uniting to defeat Sanders and Trump.
Whoever defeats this group of elites that purchase both Law Firms called Liberals and Conservatives gets my support.

Things are not what they seem most of the time.
Patience usually shows us the right way.

Thought you didn't believe politicians anymore, Bud Weiser [/quote]

He´s out (1976-2009) and was in the same party than Merkel is.
You know what "whip" means when you´re member of such party ?
When you´re out, no "whip" anymore.

hubird wrote: Get adult folks.

Bud

P.S.:
My intention wasn´t discussing for weeks, sorry.
Preparing and realizing my move next week eats all my time actually.
I´m out now and for me it´s all said anyway.
I hope I´ll find the time to come back to music and technology ASAP.

dawman wrote:I was a Ron Paul supporter.
Any candidate after that who exposes the corruption and lies of either of these 2 false parties gets my vote.
Right now we see the very same billionaires, multi national corporations and even foreign Governments uniting to defeat Sanders and Trump.
Whoever defeats this group of elites that purchase both Law Firms called Liberals and Conservatives gets my support.

Ron Paul perspires sincerity and his points are “always” against the established shit, he is a humanist above all and honestly would like to defend people’s rights. I too like him very much! Unfortunately, someone like him will never be allowed to jump on top, and if he did for some reason, he would be most certainly killed.

Humans are the same everywhere.
There's always some who feel they know what's best for the commoners.

The days of George Washington refusing to be called King and lead the Sheep are over.
The American experiment was a great success, but that same class of believers in the individual has been replaced
by the wealthy white Liberal ruling class, and their silent partners known as Conservatives.
Both names are a contradiction in terms.
Having as many stupid people seeking "help" from the Government has increased it's role as Kings and Queens, who make a lot of money guiding their flocks.

As I write this we have 2 elites speaking for millions of Sheep without our consent and deciding the futures for millions who have no voice in the process.
They say this is a great Socialist success (Cuba) and a great Democracy (USA)......

Both of these false prophets suck bags of dicks....

dawman wrote: As I write this we have 2 elites speaking for millions of Sheep without our consent and deciding the futures for millions who have no voice in the process.

What is even scarier (adding fire to the already hot fire going on), is that an election in the USA today it is in fact an election for the entire world, because what this government does, it does for the rest of the globe. Its influence (or should I say tyranny perhaps?), goes well beyond the USA. So if there are people in the States itself not being able to actually participate in these “choices”, much less the rest of the world. Nevertheless, I am convinced that there is in fact no choice whatsoever, elections in the USA today are only a mirage. You bet they have already in their hands the poker game onto the table, exactly as they want it to be spread onto it and even the design of what we are thinking and will think in a few weeks too, so organized they have it all! We always find out which was the truth, but it will take a while until their plans are obvious to our eyes, as it always happens. We have not much of a choice I’m afraid… These bastards are going to rise up into power, yet another time, in the most conflicting time in our modern history.

What makes me feel really sad in this process, is to see so much violence among the USA citizens themselves, confused about who truly are their real enemies, fighting each other without a clear reason, this is bad… If at least people were to be together against the manipulators, that would help a lot. But they still “believe” in this system, the very same system that has betrayed them over and over again.

The social mess coming up in the following months is second to none!

Nestor wrote:

dawman wrote: We always find out which was the truth, but it will take a while until their plans are obvious to our eyes, as it always happens.

hurry up, you have 3 years at max

There we go, seriously:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/22/europ ... xplosions/

Yeah, sure..................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkwGwiCCf5Q

Unite..., yeah.... with the other liders behind this orchestration of course!

I would prefer waiting before blaming folks.
Personally I see really bad police work over there, where they are releasing way too much
information to the public. Way too much speculation.

Of course catching the people is most important.
But I saw this crap before and many friends got caught up in the fervor.
I played Soccer back then with Iranians and Moroccans (bunch of hackers)
and people were saying really bad shit to me as if these guys had anything to do with this.

For all we know it could be Siberian Separatists...

In New York we had a politician that I really feel should be running

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79KzZ0YqLvo

He actually was a pleasure listening to once they started taking him seriously....

I don’t even think about the “appearance” of these conflicts, I am sure they are false flags to go on with their plans.

A chain of turmoil have been unleashed, this is the point, independently from whom exactly comes from.