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JHulk, your knowledge astounds ! I notice the CEM's got a mention in the Future Music Solaris article as well.

jhulk wrote: but the biggest problem is that all lfo envelopes and modulation is done by the 2 6809e 8bit processors and this makes them slow they are not snappy ...

Talking about Xpander, not Matrix-12, which is the same voice architecture,- I never found it to be a problem because I use synths for what they really can do.
Moog (Mini-, Source and Memory-) and Roland Jupiter 4/6/8 / MKS80 and JX10/MKS70 are snappier for sure and that´s what I used when I needed more percussion oriented sounds.
Nonbetheless I programmed some basses and percussive instrument patches which work well also w/ the Xpander and would also work w/ Matrix-12.

According to music arrangements,- an Xpander or Matrix-12 are a excellent addition to a Minimoog D and a good Yamaha FM synth. Add a sampler and you make every music w/ these sounds when you learn programming the stuff and have some taste and music skills.

OTOH, when talking about "silky pads",- plain ones, not weird modulated pads,- the Roland JX10/MKS70 were my prefered pad synths ever.
They have much less modulations and waveforms available, but the 2 layered voiceboards from JX8P, the playmodes and 2 separate Roland stereo Chorus units make it the fattest and smoothest pad synth IMO.
Matrix-12 comes next and offeres many more in addition, but you also have to process w/ outboard gear in regards of the double stereo-chorus stuff.

jhulk wrote: ... and you have to rember all the modulations as if you change a preset as in voice settings and not the matrix it can be a real pain to find whats modulating what

But it´s much easier in the matrix-12 via the modulation page than in a Xpander where this page doesn´t exist at all.
I´d say it´s matter of getting used to and notbreally a sound related issue.

jhulk wrote: the keyboard was crap i changed mine for a kurzweil k2000 keybed fatar one

That´s on of the reasons why I buyed an Xpander.

jhulk wrote: the audio outs expansion is good as then you can treat each voice its great for creating bass pad presets where you can have a semi fast bass with swirling pads

I also buyed the Xpander because it came w/ stock single outputs.
When in Multipatch-Mode, the single outputs become essential.

jhulk wrote: it uses a dual oscillator which is an infereoir chip to the single cem oscillators as used in the obx

OBX has chip OSCs ?
I thought it has discrete OSCs and SSM filters,- no CEM chips.

jhulk wrote: the matrix 12 dual osc basic oscillator is based on the cem3340 waveshapes

Please rephrase ...
You say the CEM 3374 Dual OSC in the XPander/Matrix-12 is the same than a CEM 3340 ?
I don´t know, just being interested ...

Bud

yes its a dual osc chip based on the cem3340 architecture but instead of just one oscillator it has 2 on chip

they get hotter than the single osc versions

yes you are right on the obx it uses sem osc and filter and only cem envelope chips

the OB8 & OBX-a: 2x CEM3330 VCA (Some OB-Xa models), 2x CEM3360 Dual VCA, 16x CEM3340 VCO, 16x CEM3310 EG, OBX-a 16x CEM3320 VCF, OB8 8x CEM3320

which is similar in sound to a lot of synths at the time

the cem 3340 is used in lots of synths like the memorymoog the sh101/202 some revisions of the p5

the most common used cem chip is the cem3360 vca these are still made by onchip as pda381

the 3350 dual filter is used in the synton syrinx and the waldorf wave and the chroma which uses the oscillators from the arp oddysse

which we have an emulation of so if we coupled dual osc from the prodysse and a dual filter which the 3350 could be 1 4pole lowpass and 1 4 pole hipass and if you passed the one through the other you got bandpass and if you mixed both you get notch but for this we would require a proddysse osc module for modular and a chroma type synth can be created.

the biggest problems with the cem based synths is that the cems are nearly dried up and only parting machines can provide them

in that the costing of these are done on the amount of these chips inside the machine for the costing of the machine

and why in the last years there prices have rocketed as chip prices have risen from £30-50 depending on chip say on a memory moog has 36 cem 3360 at £36-40 a pop £1440 at the top scale in that discrete versions are being made and miniaturizing them with smd/smt devices so that they can still run there machines but they still costing in the range of £40-50 per chip

to me the sem is the true oberheim sound the obx was the last to use the sem circuits the later synths are the cem sound

the sound of the sem was the great ca3080 ota no longer made so today they use the lm13600 which is a dual ca3080 chip but again these are no longer made and there supply is getting smaller

in that new discrete versions have had to be designed which i have been part of the designing process

so that even the new sems by tom oberheim dont use the exact parts of the original

bud the envelopes on the roland are proper analog envelopes the reason for the cpu types was for presests its easier to save a digital envelope than several sample and hold voltages

today there are 24bit dacs with out sample and holds so that very smooth controls can be accomplished via cpu control and 24bit adc to sample the pots movements of the 0-5v this digital data is sent to a cpu which then sends the data to the dac to control the filters and vca and what needs to be controlled by cv

and digital data is easy to save as 0/1 than voltages

but back then the 8 bit cpu was just not upto the job

the expander has less voices and does seem less stressed than the m12 no keyboard scanner

my favorite bit of analog/digital hybrid is my korgdss1-x with 24mb and usb it sounds a dream and out classes my EII and EIII in the quality and length of samples that can be used

if in need for a piano, I'd prefer the DSS1 over any pompous current library...
stunning for the size of the samples:
http://www.synthmania.com/Korg%20DSS-1% ... .PIANO.mp3

cheers, Tom

with the upgrade you can have 4mb multisounds with 15 multisamples

we are working on a new version filter per voice layer like the m1 t1 and its using my svf morphing filter with 2 in series for mad filter topologies

faster cpu and knobs for every control via adc and the 32bit processor we are going to use the same digital engine with bigger sample ram

the dss1 is my fave

second comes my sy99

then my waldorf wave

the digital/analog hybrids are the best as you start with better osc wave shapes but then scuplt using filters

the sy99 is fm but also pcm which can modulate the fm sin and you can layer 2 pcm and 2 fm layers its not analog filters but it does have a nice digital resonant filter

i really like the sound of the kawai k3 and i even hacked the rom and now do new roms which have synth waveforms from analog synths
i have been working on a gleeman pentaphonic which has several waveforms which i have been sampling so that a oscillator can be coded
this synth has some special features

I'll probably buy a DSS1 when I hit a good offer, though I won't be able to 'play'
(my left hand is slightly crippled from climbing, guitar and bass still works with non virtuoso stuff)
at least I've filed your activities and may ask one day...
Kawai stuff is cool, still have a K4 (my first synth) and a XD-5

cheers, Tom