PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

niceboy wrote:Avid TDM HD was maybe someting else. I ment to connect to a Venue board or one other board with MADI

I assume you mean the Avid Venue board :

http://www.avid.com/US/products/VENUE-MADI-Option-Card

Warp69 wrote:

niceboy wrote:Avid TDM HD was maybe someting else. I ment to connect to a Venue board or one other board with MADI

I assume you mean the Avid Venue board :

http://www.avid.com/US/products/VENUE-MADI-Option-Card

Yes thats what I ment ,and saw also on theire site , the Option-Card

The connectors look different also from SSL pics

http://www.thomann.de/se/ssl_pci_expres ... faces.html

SSL told me that theire connectors is MADI in and out in one ,and VENUE seems to have two for in and out,

Is theire possibly adapters to be used here , and can we connect two Ferrofish 16 to a Avid Venue board and get 32 channels.

Without any big trouble. If they insist to use 96 KHZ, we can always use only our SCOPE 5,1 . and maybe our Pro Fire 2626 can be used in 96 KHZ I think.

I want to know what we need to be connected. Our master AW4416 can only use 48 KHZ .

Whats is standard behavior MADI to MADI. We are just one Band , and we are going to be involved now.

niceboy wrote:http://www.thomann.de/se/ssl_pci_expres ... faces.html

They have the EXACT same connections - the picture on the Thomann site have protective plugs - you'll have to remove those before use.

Warp69 wrote:

niceboy wrote:http://www.thomann.de/se/ssl_pci_expres ... faces.html

They have the EXACT same connections - the picture on the Thomann site have protective plugs - you'll have to remove those before use.

Aha

Thank you very much ,but the Venue seems to have one for in and one for out ,or is that also two both in and outs.

If its two in and out ,can we go in with two Ferrofish there.

To make 32 channels from our system, and does the Front of the House technichians

expect us to have a card like that ,even though we dont have a Venue board .

We also intend to use two A 16 as 16 ADAT in and 16 ADAT out

when we are in our ADAT-studio, or smaller gigs,

as one extra ADAT connector if its possible .

There's only one standard for MADI - SSL and Avid use the same.

The picture on thomann (MADIXtreme 128) shows two protective plugs, but underneath there're actual 4 connections (2 under each plug) - Each protective plug hides 1 port for 'Out' and 1 port for 'In' - the exact same ports exist on the MADI opt card for Venue. Absolutely no difference.

The MADI cables comes in pair (multimode optics - the same cables for 10Gb+ networks) - the head of the cable contains both the In and Out port - you can only fit the cable one way, so don't worry.

niceboy wrote:expect us to have a card like that ,even though we dont have a Venue board .

Eh?

That's a rather expensive solution - it's a $3500 opt card?!

Warp69 wrote:There's only one standard for MADI - SSL and Avid use the same.

The picture on thomann (MADIXtreme 128) shows two protective plugs, but underneath there're actual 4 connections (2 under each plug) - Each protective plug hides 1 port for 'Out' and 1 port for 'In' - the exact same ports exist on the MADI opt card for Venue. Absolutely no difference.

The MADI cables comes in pair (multimode optics - the same cables for 10Gb+ networks) - the head of the cable contains both the In and Out port - you can only fit the cable one way, so don't worry.

I am not worried but you missed my last editing of the question because you where so quick.

The part about using two A16 as one extra ADAT 16 in and out when we are not in need of MADI situations.


We also intend to use two A 16 as 16 ADAT in and 16 ADAT out

when we are in our ADAT-studio, or smaller gigs,

as one extra ADAT connector if its possible .

Warp69 wrote:

niceboy wrote:expect us to have a card like that ,even though we dont have a Venue board .

Eh?

That's a rather expensive solution - it's a $3500 opt card?!

??? Ok lol

We also intend to use two A 16 as 16 ADAT in and 16 ADAT out

when we are in our ADAT-studio, or smaller gigs,

as one extra ADAT connector if its possible .

for 16 channels in plus 16 channels out it needs 1 A16 device
...or 2 with s/mux if higher sample rates than 48k are required.
(just to clarify - port number count can be confusing today...)

cheers, Tom

astroman wrote:for 16 channels in plus 16 channels out it needs 1 A16 device
...or 2 with s/mux if higher sample rates than 48k are required.
(just to clarify - port number count can be confusing today...)

cheers, Tom

Sorry for confusion.

I now try to be more clear.

If we as a Band want to connect to for example the Venue or other Board

with ADAT to MADI converter , and they insist to use 96 KHZ.

If we then get both ADAT to Madi converter and one MADI PCI card with two connectors .

One of them adressed to the Venue or some other Board.

Can we then from the Computer with MADI adressed to other Boards,

change the Sample Rate in that computer to 96 KHZ

I mean if we are hooked up with 48 KHZ ADAT through the ADAT to MADI converter ,

with the MADI computer .

What happens then ? are we in trouble in anyway , with the Samplerate if they insist on using 96KHZ.

What I mean is that maybe MADI doesn`t change the Samplerate issue.

well, there are (exist) devices that handle multiple samplerates simultaneously (realtime samplerate conversion)
no idea if the system you connect to has something like that - at least it's not exotic, in fact it's standard in onboard audio codecs and streaming content (not that great implementation usually, tho...).
Anyway, an A16 MK2 doesn't cost an arm and a leg and you could solve it easily with a 2nd unit if someone insists on 96k and if it keeps things more simple.

But frankly speaking that's a nerd attitude...
There IS a difference between 44.1 and 96k that's easily detected in a listening room or a studio - but under live conditions ? C'mon... that must be a f*cking great treated venue ...
Hey, this is DSP processing - they oversample internally where required (Minimax filter for example)...
No need to waste the juice all the time.

cheers, Tom

garyb wrote:nice speaking with you on the phone...

afaik, those MADI cards should all be full duplex(work both in and out at the same time).

as we discussed, you can use higher than 48k with the ADAT connections if you use S-MUX(not all ADAT hardware will do S-MUX). the limitation is that you lose half of your ADAT i/o when using S-MUX. if you use samplerates higher than 48khz with MADI and don't use S-MUX, you won't be able to use the ADAT i/o. if you use 44.1k or 48k, your MADI and ADAT i/o can all be synced to the same clock without S-MUX.


i don't know, but it appears that the SSL cards do not work in win7 64bit.

??? What http://www.solid-state-logic.com/post/X ... /index.asp

Windows 64-Bit (Vista 64 Bit and Windows 7 64 Bit): ASIO 32, ASIO 64, SS V6 (currently no WDM64 support)

I want to know about this what you said ( not all ADAT hardware will do S-MUX )

We have M-AUDIO PRO FIRE 2626,YAMAHA AW4416,EMU 1820 and SONIC CORE DSP 14/15.

We got one really god offer on two A16 FERROFISH so we will have 32 channels then

so we will get 16 Channels even if using S-MUX.

Is that S-MUX built in to mixer systems like AVID VENUE

astroman wrote:well, there are (exist) devices that handle multiple samplerates simultaneously (realtime samplerate conversion)
no idea if the system you connect to has something like that - at least it's not exotic, in fact it's standard in onboard audio codecs and streaming content (not that great implementation usually, tho...).
Anyway, an A16 MK2 doesn't cost an arm and a leg and you could solve it easily with a 2nd unit if someone insists on 96k and if it keeps things more simple.

But frankly speaking that's a nerd attitude...
There IS a difference between 44.1 and 96k that's easily detected in a listening room or a studio - but under live conditions ? C'mon... that must be a f*cking great treated venue ...
Hey, this is DSP processing - they oversample internally where required (Minimax filter for example)...
No need to waste the juice all the time.

cheers, Tom

No need to waste the juice all the time.

Refering to above Gary and the S-MUX and my question there. ??? or

Is that S-MUX built in to mixer systems like AVID VENUE

??? What do you mean we buy two A16 .

We want two in any way we think gives 32 channels

We got one really good offer on two A16 FERROFISH so we will have 32 channels then

but under live conditions ? you wrote

We want to write things in contracts here as one band.

Maybe that they can use 48 KHZ

Otherwise we dont play .

That would be inappropriate or what its called ,

if we dont know what we are talking about

if the Avid Venue is connected via MADI, it doesn't matter if it does S-MUX. S-MUX is for 96k using ADAT.

garyb wrote:if the Avid Venue is connected via MADI, it doesn't matter if it does S-MUX. S-MUX is for 96k using ADAT.

Yes but we are going to convert with the ADAT to MADI converters or converter, and you say that its no problem that we use 48 KHZ,
or do you mean that we need to have one S-MUX before the ADAT to MADI converter, in our system,
and if we use our 64 computer for one extra MADI PCI-card after the ADAT to MADI converter.
We then can f.ex test our new Digital drums in 96KHZ, to listen, or feel if there is any difference in latency between 48 and 96 KHZ,
in our Studio.
We are waiting for programs to be fully compatibel with 64 bit ,in our 64 bit computer but it seems to be possible to use them already.
I mean that it might be time to start to use it now then.

S-MUX is a way of getting 8 channels of 96k out of 2 ADAT lightpipe connectors.

if you are connecting to a system that is 96k via MADI-in other words, going out of the Venue's MADI port into an A16 Mk2's MADI port then out of the A16 Mk2's ADAT ports as S-MUX into Scope's, or any other device's ADAT ports as S-MUX, that will work.

if you connect to a 48k system, you won't need S-MUX and you'll have 16 ADAT channels instead of 8.

if you want to burn resources to reproduce high frequencies that a PA system is incapable of reproducing, then do so, by all means. 96k or 48k, there's no difference on a PA system, and all cds are 44.1k. i remember when stores only had records and we were told how much better cds sound, how much better the specs were and that we had to buy them. today, analog vinyl is still the standard in audiophile recordings, but 44.1k cds can sound fantastic too. 44.1k cds and vinyl can also sound pretty crappy.

garyb wrote:S-MUX is a way of getting 8 channels of 96k out of 2 ADAT lightpipe connectors.

if you are connecting to a system that is 96k via MADI-in other words, going out of the Venue's MADI port into an A16 Mk2's MADI port then out of the A16 Mk2's ADAT ports as S-MUX into Scope's, or any other device's ADAT ports as S-MUX, that will work.

if you connect to a 48k system, you won't need S-MUX and you'll have 16 ADAT channels instead of 8.

if you want to burn resources to reproduce high frequencies that a PA system is incapable of reproducing, then do so, by all means. 96k or 48k, there's no difference on a PA system, and all cds are 44.1k. i remember when stores only had records and we were told how much better cds sound, how much better the specs were and that we had to buy them. today, analog vinyl is still the standard in audiophile recordings, but 44.1k cds can sound fantastic too. 44.1k cds and vinyl can also sound pretty crappy.

We have worked for 20 years doing as much feedback as we could, building our own Soundmixer also, but one year ago we started to use SCOPE 5,0,

because we were told its the only application that can do that.The rest around this Cirkus about , who is best without sounding good , non of them, we rest our case.

Just wanted to know, going from our system 48 KHZ to 96 KHZ. Maybe also the other way 96 to 48 KHZ if we choose to buy one computer -card for MADI

That will be one with connection also with a MADI Board.

We cant afford a Venue Board , and we dont want to.

Even if we then have to use S-MUX we will have 16 channels instead of 32 , thats more than enough for us,

but we are more often recording than playing life so we might test 96 KHZ in our Studio .

We might also use the TOONTRACK Superior Drummer in MADI , if there is something with latency .

We want to know because we have one 64 bit computer not in use very much , so in order to be on MADI in our Studio we might buy two A 16 soon.

Its more about whats compatible with the SSL PCI-card then , maybe not so much about S-MUX.

Is that S-MUX expensive

Our drummer might say that he can feel difference, I dont know.

no S-MUX isn't expensive, it's just another way of using the ADAT ports.

i'm sure there is a way to resample from 96k to 48k in realtime, but it seems unecessary. i would say that things will likely sound a little better when recording at 96k, but by the time you downsample to 44.1k for cd or worse, go to mp3, any advantage from the higher samplerate will be lost. you will always lose quality(though almost inaudibly if using a good algorythm) when downsampling.

garyb wrote:no S-MUX isn't expensive, it's just another way of using the ADAT ports.

i'm sure there is a way to resample from 96k to 48k in realtime, but it seems unecessary. i would say that things will likely sound a little better when recording at 96k, but by the time you downsample to 44.1k for cd or worse, go to mp3, any advantage from the higher samplerate will be lost. you will always lose quality(though almost inaudibly if using a good algorythm) when downsampling.

But we are doing feedback and with one of the signals we use inverse phase to get as much as possible ,
allthough most people dont know whats that is,we might get even stronger feedback results then if the latency is maybe not an issue then.
I dont know we first are going to buy one converter now.
Can XITE 1 work in 96KHZ .ADAT in itself is set to
its highest levelat48 KHZ I`v heard today

yes, all Scope products work at 96k.
ADAT light pipe is 44.1k or 48k and can actually work at any samplerate up to 48k. YOU have to choose the samplerate. ADAT light pipe can do 96k in S-MUX mode.