Iran?
Re: Iran?
A destabilized Iran with a large percentage of the Iranian population supposedly calling for an end to dictatorship & calling for democracy (as we're being asked to believe) seems like a situation that's been manufactured imo & If that's the case, we can probably all take a good guess at who might be behind it. I hope I'm wrong, but this might well be one in a line of public perception altering preludes to a war in Iran. It is one of the most resource rich countries in the world after all. It's a dangerous situation for Iranians that much is for sure. If the right series of preludes were put in place, Iranians could find themselves being yet another middle eastern country being flattened with radioactive bunker busters & that would have major consequences globally. Lets hope the global consequences of a war in Iran keep the war mongers at bay, but I'm actually not convinced that it will.
Re: Iran?
rewatch the whole speech and realize that it was made in the '70's which was a VERY different time than today. you kids know NOTHING of the time that was.... 
Democracy, National Sociofascism = tools of the order of things today. besides, fascism is corporatism. supposedly, Iran is resistant to that.
Democracy, National Sociofascism = tools of the order of things today. besides, fascism is corporatism. supposedly, Iran is resistant to that.
Re: Iran?
You don't say.garyb wrote:Democracy, National Sociofascism = tools of the order of things today.
The ideals & spoken words of cretins like Mussolini & Hitler have a huge influence on the world to this day, as you know, but so too does someone who wasn't a dictator or even leader and is much less well known like Burke. Corporations might rule the world, but it's their tools that influence the masses & create the apathy. It's their tools that fool masses into believing spoon-fed lies. These aren't merely tools, these are weapons & they're part of an armory.garyb wrote:besides, fascism is corporatism.
Iran aren't resistant to anything, just like every other country in this world & I'm sure you know that.garyb wrote:supposedly, Iran is resistant to that.
Re: Iran?
Shroomz~> wrote:You don't say.garyb wrote:Democracy, National Sociofascism = tools of the order of things today.
The ideals & spoken words of cretins like Mussolini & Hitler have a huge influence on the world to this day, as you know, but so too does someone who wasn't a dictator or even leader and is much less well known like Burke. Corporations might rule the world, but it's their tools that influence the masses & create the apathy. It's their tools that fool masses into believing spoon-fed lies. These aren't merely tools, these are weapons & they're part of an armory.garyb wrote:besides, fascism is corporatism.
Iran aren't resistant to anything, just like every other country in this world & I'm sure you know that.garyb wrote:supposedly, Iran is resistant to that.
ok, so we agree. did you like the clip?
Re: Iran?
Indeed, this is why the US public officials (Obama or otherwise) haven't come out either way. There have been constant appeals in the twitter/youtube coverage of Iran for the US to 'show support' so that they can gain legitimacy. But of course if that were publicly done then it would then also 'legitimize' any claims like "the US is behind it" etc.Shroomz~> wrote:A destabilized Iran with a large percentage of the Iranian population supposedly calling for an end to dictatorship & calling for democracy (as we're being asked to believe) seems like a situation that's been manufactured imo & If that's the case, we can probably all take a good guess at who might be behind it. I hope I'm wrong, but this might well be one in a line of public perception altering preludes to a war in Iran. It is one of the most resource rich countries in the world after all. It's a dangerous situation for Iranians that much is for sure. If the right series of preludes were put in place, Iranians could find themselves being yet another middle eastern country being flattened with radioactive bunker busters & that would have major consequences globally. Lets hope the global consequences of a war in Iran keep the war mongers at bay, but I'm actually not convinced that it will.
Which isn't to say that we are or aren't anyway, just that it would move the rhetoric up quite a few notches in the overall chess game. Given our position in Iraq the US has certainly been positioned to contribute to this situation, but at the same time I can't say that I think the protests going on in Iran are misplaced and only the result of outside meddling. ...
Re: Iran?
I have seen several videos of the young Iranians fighting in the streets.
From the few videos I have seen where they are beating on the plain clothes security forces, these Iranians actually have morals.
2 different videos I saw where these plain clothes guys got their asses kicked other protestors would come in and sheild them from further violence, and even carry them off to safety, or so it seems.
I remember growing up and fighting like a devil to win a fight, and the next day the person I wanted to scratch his eyes out became a friend. Kind of wierd, but that's the way it was over here. All was forgiven, but becuase you had the balls to take a stand and mix it up you earned respect.
Nowdays it seems like people come back with a gun and finish the argument, so maybe times have changed a little.
But these young Iranians should be rewarded with a comprimise and a voice at least.
From what I have seen they earned some serious respect from the guys with the towels and robes. Besides, for being " Holy Men " they sure weild some pretty serious ultimatums.
I hope they become the freak show that can only be seen inside where worshipping is done.
To have giant posters and billboards of these freaks all over the roads and cities of Iran must be so embarrassing, I would riot in the streets just to get rid of these silly things.
From the few videos I have seen where they are beating on the plain clothes security forces, these Iranians actually have morals.
2 different videos I saw where these plain clothes guys got their asses kicked other protestors would come in and sheild them from further violence, and even carry them off to safety, or so it seems.
I remember growing up and fighting like a devil to win a fight, and the next day the person I wanted to scratch his eyes out became a friend. Kind of wierd, but that's the way it was over here. All was forgiven, but becuase you had the balls to take a stand and mix it up you earned respect.
Nowdays it seems like people come back with a gun and finish the argument, so maybe times have changed a little.
But these young Iranians should be rewarded with a comprimise and a voice at least.
From what I have seen they earned some serious respect from the guys with the towels and robes. Besides, for being " Holy Men " they sure weild some pretty serious ultimatums.
I hope they become the freak show that can only be seen inside where worshipping is done.
To have giant posters and billboards of these freaks all over the roads and cities of Iran must be so embarrassing, I would riot in the streets just to get rid of these silly things.
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Neil B
Re: Iran?
I feel torn in two directions over the latest issues in Iran
For centuries, us knowledgeable, cultured westerners have wanted to impose western style democracy in middle eastern countries.
These people are totally different though.
I AM against a dictatorship and I fully wish for equality and education for young girls/women in general.
On the other hand though, are the student Iranians and other Iranians of course thinking that the world is going to be beautiful & free, heaven on earth if they achieve a Western style democracy?
I reckon it would turn Iran into just another quagmire of political correctness, false equality, moral corruptness, broken families etc etc, with a McDonalds on the High Street.
If there is such a thing as a middle eastern style democracy, where nearly all of their values are retained, but with greater freedom for women in terms of education & business, and all the other "good" things that can come with a democracy, then that would be far better than creating another America or Britain of Holland or or or
Am I naive? Yes probably.
For centuries, us knowledgeable, cultured westerners have wanted to impose western style democracy in middle eastern countries.
These people are totally different though.
I AM against a dictatorship and I fully wish for equality and education for young girls/women in general.
On the other hand though, are the student Iranians and other Iranians of course thinking that the world is going to be beautiful & free, heaven on earth if they achieve a Western style democracy?
I reckon it would turn Iran into just another quagmire of political correctness, false equality, moral corruptness, broken families etc etc, with a McDonalds on the High Street.
If there is such a thing as a middle eastern style democracy, where nearly all of their values are retained, but with greater freedom for women in terms of education & business, and all the other "good" things that can come with a democracy, then that would be far better than creating another America or Britain of Holland or or or
Am I naive? Yes probably.
Re: Iran?
So in trading 'Totalitarian Dictator' for 'western democracy' you might just be trading one yoke for another?
I think that whatever is behind this current influx of 'info' from twitter/youtube, if you were to want a rallying point for revolution then footage like the Neda stuff puts things well on the way...
I think that whatever is behind this current influx of 'info' from twitter/youtube, if you were to want a rallying point for revolution then footage like the Neda stuff puts things well on the way...
Re: Iran?
ANY government that requires weapons to motivate it's citizenry is made up of gangsters. what's rule of one gang versus another? non of them have any true regard for human life, that's quite clear. if it's a democracy and by the people, then the government is already doing what the people want and need, and no one will want to kill the representitives, there's no need to threaten civillians, not even for "their own protection". btw-"for their own protection" is a type of gangster scam called a "protection racket"...
all i know is that whenever huge crowds protest the powers that be in Europe or the USA, soldiers rough up the protesters. these criminals in Iran seem to like to rule the same way. what can WE as the "free" peoples possibly do to help "them" in Iran, when we can't even reign in our own rulers?
Re: Iran?
Yeah, but we have been silent until recently, and we have guns............. 
I actually would love to see corporations be forced to stay within their borders and pay the taxes they actually owe our cititzenry instead of this " world citizen ", no border approach for the wealthiest institutions.
They are NOT beyond reproach.
I actually would love to see corporations be forced to stay within their borders and pay the taxes they actually owe our cititzenry instead of this " world citizen ", no border approach for the wealthiest institutions.
They are NOT beyond reproach.
Re: Iran?
Wouldn't it be nice if somehow instead of just petering out or 'reverting to the norm' this somehow did take a step further towards 'freedom' and inspired the rest of us to do some of the same.
Meanwhile back in the US, our 'new' administration has decided to continue the Bush administration's non-disclosure of the ACTA treaty, to continue the Bush administration's stance on FISA coverups/national communications dragnets, to continue the 'bailouts' begun under the previous administration....
If I was inclined to power and wanted to protect it, I think that a slow subtle undermining of those individuals would be much more successful than shooting them in the head as martyrs (ie, messing with their credit history, banking, social life, possible psi-ops for higher profile individuals etc.) Oddly enough, there's a huge record of exactly these things happening to people who challenge our political system. But of course that still didn't stop some of the Enron testifiers from committing suicides in very odd ways, nor prevent the mysterious 'disappearances' and deaths of many noted microbiologists and so on... One has to wonder if free speech is still tolerated because it's truly one of our protected rights, or if it's because in our modern communications era it makes it exceedingly easy to identify pockets of trouble.
What the heck though, we have ready access to drugs (both legal and black-market with conveniently inflated prices), video games, music and 'stuff to buy'.
Meanwhile back in the US, our 'new' administration has decided to continue the Bush administration's non-disclosure of the ACTA treaty, to continue the Bush administration's stance on FISA coverups/national communications dragnets, to continue the 'bailouts' begun under the previous administration....
If I was inclined to power and wanted to protect it, I think that a slow subtle undermining of those individuals would be much more successful than shooting them in the head as martyrs (ie, messing with their credit history, banking, social life, possible psi-ops for higher profile individuals etc.) Oddly enough, there's a huge record of exactly these things happening to people who challenge our political system. But of course that still didn't stop some of the Enron testifiers from committing suicides in very odd ways, nor prevent the mysterious 'disappearances' and deaths of many noted microbiologists and so on... One has to wonder if free speech is still tolerated because it's truly one of our protected rights, or if it's because in our modern communications era it makes it exceedingly easy to identify pockets of trouble.
What the heck though, we have ready access to drugs (both legal and black-market with conveniently inflated prices), video games, music and 'stuff to buy'.
Last edited by valis on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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netguyjoel
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Re: Iran?
I was going to say out of this thread...until I read today, Iran now has a martyr, Neda (27 and beautiful) and an opposition leader in, Mir Hossein Mousavi, who now has taken a position, against the Supreme Iyatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei, calling for revolt against the entire government..which was not his position at the start. It was pretty much, the same song and dance as the president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, just another wolf in sheep's clothes...just a different name...now I feel there is at least some hope...God help these people.
http://kdka.com/national/neda.taped.dea ... 54942.html
http://kdka.com/national/neda.taped.dea ... 54942.html
Joel
Re: Iran?
I don't doubt that Neda was killed, but there's a stench surrounding the whole affair imo, especially the reporting of it, which reeks of propaganda. It's sadly not surprising that a beautiful woman's death in Iran would receive the attention of the spin masters though.
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netguyjoel
- Posts: 1228
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:34 am
- Location: The Land of Cheese, Beer & Fat Chicks
Re: Iran?
It is still in ANY case...a useless death of a young woman, at the hands of some very evil men...end of story.
Her family, and fellow Iranian people, deserve better....I hope the Iranian people use her death, and the deaths of all the others, wishing for a different way of life, to REALLY stir up the balance of power there.....
Her family, and fellow Iranian people, deserve better....I hope the Iranian people use her death, and the deaths of all the others, wishing for a different way of life, to REALLY stir up the balance of power there.....
Joel
Re: Iran?
It's not end of story until there's legitimate proof of who actually killed her or the dozens of other people killed in Tehran in recent days, but good luck if you're holding your breath on that one.netguyjoel wrote:It is still in ANY case...a useless death of a young woman, at the hands of some very evil men...end of story.
Re: Iran?
Shroomz~> wrote:It's not end of story until there's legitimate proof of who actually killed her or the dozens of other people killed in Tehran in recent days, but good luck if you're holding your breath on that one.netguyjoel wrote:It is still in ANY case...a useless death of a young woman, at the hands of some very evil men...end of story.
exactly. be assured that black ops were involved somehow...
Re: Iran?
Sadly the spinners are excellent at thier job and we'll never know the real truth.
But I still applaud these brave people and hearing recent statements from the clerics appears that they acknowledge the tainted selection.
For them to stay in power it appears as though they must make a sacrificial lamb out of Ahmadinejad, which I would love to see, but I doubt it.
A new election would then cause the other faction to scream bloody murder.
I just wish we could get voter turnout like that w/o Acorn bribing homeless people, etc.
We Americans are screwed no matter who wins. If the clerics retain their powerful grip, we lose, if the new guys wins, we lose for appearing to be " Politically Correct " by not standing up and at least offering moral support.
In Washington if one were to ask what side they took on the Iranian issue they would say the winner of course.
Our leaders jobs are the collectors of cash in the form of Campaign contributions and the job of being re elected so they can continue having a room full of lobbyists asking for an autograph as they pay for legislation and favors.
What's funny though is lobbyists are never guaranteed their favors and still pay enormous sums for a 50/50 shot.........In my next life I want to be a Senator and have Roland, Yamaha and other corporations dropping off expensive consoles and hardware......
I would be more than happy to pass new porn legislation too. I can only imagine the favors that come with that consideration.
But I still applaud these brave people and hearing recent statements from the clerics appears that they acknowledge the tainted selection.
For them to stay in power it appears as though they must make a sacrificial lamb out of Ahmadinejad, which I would love to see, but I doubt it.
A new election would then cause the other faction to scream bloody murder.
I just wish we could get voter turnout like that w/o Acorn bribing homeless people, etc.
We Americans are screwed no matter who wins. If the clerics retain their powerful grip, we lose, if the new guys wins, we lose for appearing to be " Politically Correct " by not standing up and at least offering moral support.
In Washington if one were to ask what side they took on the Iranian issue they would say the winner of course.
Our leaders jobs are the collectors of cash in the form of Campaign contributions and the job of being re elected so they can continue having a room full of lobbyists asking for an autograph as they pay for legislation and favors.
What's funny though is lobbyists are never guaranteed their favors and still pay enormous sums for a 50/50 shot.........In my next life I want to be a Senator and have Roland, Yamaha and other corporations dropping off expensive consoles and hardware......
I would be more than happy to pass new porn legislation too. I can only imagine the favors that come with that consideration.