Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3:16:2 - anyone used these desks?

[garyb]

the PM1000 is a good choice if you don't need features. it'll last forever and is 100% discreet electronics(no ICs!). all parts are high quality. it was meant for live, but it has a great sound.

[Shroomz~>]

the Yamaha PM 1000 is discussed controversly in Gearslutz, but for sure seems to provide 'color'
said to be heavy as lead, and often sold by the channel
at least the full manual is online - and those papers really deserved the label
there's a lot of room inside and it's easy to mod

Cheers, I look into that..

you're an invaluable source for expressions - just added tight-fisted to my private vocab
tnx

LOL, I guess you already knew the 'tight-arsed' variation of that one?

[garyb]

Thanks Gary, yep, I'm swaying towards an older desk, the more I look into it. I'm wondering though, what's the story with getting things like replacement faders/sliders, pots & bulbs for the meterbridge VUs on these older desks? I guess it'll depend on the make, model & rarity.

yes,
up until now, Soundcraft has kept parts in stock. high-end, professional gear tends to always be fixable(unlike consumer models). if it was a quality piece that was loved, there is likely to be someone who specializes in keeping the thing working...obviously, that's a thing to research a bit before spending the cash, unless(or especially if) you are an engineer...

[dawman]

Shroomz is so tight fisted .....
When he pulls a 5 pound bill out of his pocket the Queen squints as she hasn't seen the sun for weeks !!...
Ankyu...

I agree on the old console theory.
Around Lake Tahoe there are many high end consoles and several builders of high end consoles too.
It's rather hip to be old up there, while running your Mac/ProTools OctoQuads through an old Trident or Neve...

[Shroomz~>]

yes,
up until now, Soundcraft has kept parts in stock. high-end, professional gear tends to always be fixable(unlike consumer models). if it was a quality piece that was loved, there is likely to be someone who specializes in keeping the thing working...obviously, that's a thing to research a bit before spending the cash, unless(or especially if) you are an engineer...

I was reading that the VU bulbs in some of the old consoles can be a PITA to replace & that since they're quite prone to blowing that it's an option to just install a switch to turn them all off since you can still see the meters anyway. I'm thinking that could be a money saver, since a desk with a load of blown bulbs & maybe a couple of broken or dodgy faders is going to sell a fair bit cheaper.

[Shroomz~>]

Shroomz is so tight fisted .....
When he pulls a 5 pound bill out of his pocket the Queen squints as she hasn't seen the sun for weeks !!...

Jog on...

[garyb]

yes,
up until now, Soundcraft has kept parts in stock. high-end, professional gear tends to always be fixable(unlike consumer models). if it was a quality piece that was loved, there is likely to be someone who specializes in keeping the thing working...obviously, that's a thing to research a bit before spending the cash, unless(or especially if) you are an engineer...

I was reading that the VU bulbs in some of the old consoles can be a PITA to replace & that since they're quite prone to blowing that it's an option to just install a switch to turn them all off since you can still see the meters anyway. I'm thinking that could be a money saver, since a desk with a load of blown bulbs & maybe a couple of broken or dodgy faders is going to sell a fair bit cheaper.

dead bulbs in a vu are to be ignored...

[Shroomz~>]

dead bulbs in a vu are to be ignored...

Exactly & I'd be willing to put up with more faults than that to get a bargain.

[Shroomz~>]

the Yamaha PM 1000 is discussed controversly in Gearslutz, but for sure seems to provide 'color'
said to be heavy as lead, and often sold by the channel

There's a reputable dealer in the US selling those PM 1000 channels for $59 each. Very tempting, but I think they'd be nicer made into a sloping desktop unit with wooden end cheeks rather than being racked.

[valis]

i might look at older consoles. once again, you need to find a desk that has features you like, but an old Ramsa or Sound Workshops broadcast desk(or even some of the older Soundcraft or A+H studio mixers) might be a much higher quality mixer for half the money...

Yeah, I've been looking into older desks. There's a Sountracs 16:8:16 made in the 80's for sale in Glasgow, but I can't find that much info on that desk & don't know if it's worth buying or worth the £250 - £300 asking price.

Definitely interested in the option of getting a more vintage desk with some colour in the sound.

If the Soundtracs is a Topaz, grab it & run! If it's a PC Solo or other smaller format the pre's aren't quite as good (Topaz is above the A&H stuff listed in this thread imo), a bit less gain and a bit less 'crisp'.

In fact I have a 16 Chan PC Solo here. I don't do a ton of mic recording, and have other pre's here as well so the desk suits my needs for now. I wouldn't mind upgrading someday, but the swappable tape returns give me effectively 32 channels of input with 16 channel strips to assign as I see fit. The size works very well in here, and everything I've found for under $5k lacks the flexibility I have right now so I've stuck with this.

As for repair, even in the US where Soundtracs is hardly known I was able to score copies of the full original manual that came with the desk, and a full technician's repair manual as well. I think the latter ran me $75 or so from someone in NY, though I'd have to dig that info out again if asked as it escapes me atm.

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Personally I'd go for an older 80's desk over a Mixwizard, just make sure you can give it at least a once over before purchasing as there's huge differences in the lives gear may have lived. That being said I do think even the late 90's (through early 00's) A&H desks are quite good as well (the ones that are larger than the Mixwizard).

[Fluxpod]

I mixed on a few a&h desks and liked them.
If you get a 20+ year old console prepare yourself for a recap.Most of the older caps are pretty low quality and probably dried out over time.I would hear it then buy it.

[garyb]

metal can caps don't dry out very fast.

recapping isn't hard anyway, it's just tedious. the need to recap is usually highly exaggerated, but since a real desk is made to be serviced, one can always do the job a channel at a time without upsetting the usefullness of the rest of the board.

[Fluxpod]

metal can caps don't dry out very fast.

recapping isn't hard anyway, it's just tedious. the need to recap is usually highly exaggerated, but since a real desk is made to be serviced, one can always do the job a channel at a time without upsetting the usefullness of the rest of the board.

Thing is 20 year old caps ..arent very good.Recap isnt hard work but it takes time...i did it on our second 16 ch dynacord console..all wima now .Its just something to think about when buying old consoles in generall.

[Shroomz~>]

If the Soundtracs is a Topaz, grab it & run! If it's a PC Solo or other smaller format the pre's aren't quite as good (Topaz is above the A&H stuff listed in this thread imo), a bit less gain and a bit less 'crisp'.

Hi Valis,

The Soundtracs just says '16:8:16' as a model ref'. I believe it's a split desk like yours with 16 main channels & an additional 16 tape returns, but I could be wrong. This is it in the picture below.

Soundtracs_16_8_16.JPG (17.32 KiB) Viewed 4120 times

I also spotted a nice looking A+H SRC series 24:4:2 which I think was made late 80's/early 90's, but it's 350-400 miles away.

Allen_HeathSRCseries.JPG (32.16 KiB) Viewed 4119 times

[garyb]

looks pretty interesting....

[Shroomz~>]

How much would you pay for this little 8ch Soundcraft? (see photo) ... sorry, I don't have more details.

Soundcraft.JPG (28.75 KiB) Viewed 4099 times

[valis]

Hi Valis,

The Soundtracs just says '16:8:16' as a model ref'. I believe it's a split desk like yours with 16 main channels & an additional 16 tape returns, but I could be wrong. This is it in the picture below.

I'm no expert on Soundtracs, but that looks like an older board than mine (mine was manuf. in 86), and probably the better for it. Don't have a ton of info on the other boards there for you either, but it looks like you're on a good path now so keep at it. I spent a lot of time reading up on the boards when I bought mine, Soundtracs was an interesting name that I hadn't known before due to it being a UK brand. I asked some drum&bass & electronic artists I know in the UK about it and heard good things, was told what albums I was familiar with that were made on SOLOs & Topaz boards so I have some sort of reference (not that that really tells me that much).

Mostly though, I got my board through my wife's sister's boyfriend (of many years) who plays guitar and didn't know what to do with it. I spent half of what it should have cost used and am greatful for the deal I got. I had just heard about the brand from my friends, and it was one of those moments where it just 'clicked'. I mentioned being curious about the brand in passing conversation at a family holiday meal, he mentioned he had one on consignment in a local shop that he'd be willing to pull and sell to me, etc etc.

Had I gone for a console money no object would I have gotten this? Probably not but it's worked out better than I expected and I'm happy with what I've got for now. I think when shopping for used you have to balance the deals you find with the knowledge you can glean about them, and go for what you feel is the best outlay for your cash. Either that or save up more and be very patient, but that can happen with the upgrade path as well imo.

[Fluxpod]

How much would you pay for this little 8ch Soundcraft? (see photo) ... sorry, I don't have more details.

Soundcraft.JPG

Did you hear it ?

It looks.....well i wouldnt buy it at all but it may sound good.If you want to buy it...around 120€ seems ok to me if it sounds ok and nothing is broken/scratches.
Another tip from me would be a used Ramsa-Panasonic desk we have the wr 16/2 and it sounds good.

[Shroomz~>]

Nope, I didn't hear it Fluxpod. ... I just sniped it on ebay for £87 (about 90 EURO). It's an old Soundcraft S200 desk & as long as it's working I think I've just got a bargain. whoooahahaha.. I'd been thinking about going down the route of buying individual channels like the PM 1000 astroman mentioned along with the likes of Soundcraft Delta 200 channels & building them all into a custom channel strip desk of sorts (got some lovely teak here that needs used), but when I saw this little 8 channel Soundcraft desk I realised that it would be a lot easier to just buy 2 or 3 smaller vintage desks to get some different flavors.

[Fluxpod]

For 90€ there isnt any room to complain! Nice score.