Then why is the air and water getting so bad? Why are people starving? No more conspiracy theories please. You are saying there is no limit to how many people the world can support? HA not with our current technology and money. There is a pile of garbage in the ocean the size of Texas and a dead zone in the gulf of Mexico. The Colorado river no longer reaches the ocean. We are trashing the planet. I love the earth, you just love people. There is a hell of a lot more to life than us.
The other creatures have just as much right to be here as we do. I love animals, insects, single celled organisms, bacteria and plants etc.. You know?... the 99.999999999% of life that most people don't give a damn about because they are so hopelessly self-centered.
As dense as it is, there is a chance some bird flu will wipe out 40% but I would rather it not come to that. We have the choice. I don't know if we will act on it in time. All these religious people saying god wants us to reproduce; it is so archaic! People should grow up. Did you know that 4 out of 10 Americans think that people did not evolve from animals? How can people be so stupid? It is because we don't stress science in schools and furthermore, we allow people to create schools which teach people lies. That is a form of child abuse.
the third wave
Re: the third wave
People who think there are too many people in the world should seriously consider removing themselves from the picture. How about that as a simple solution, for a start? I'd bet we get rid of millions this way.
I'm not saying that this isn't something of concern. But you have no right to tell people how, when, how many, and which type of children to have. If we were working together instead of insisting on domination, solutions, many of which are KNOWN, would be put to practice. And people would have the right number of children. Genes are wealth. Love is mysterious.
There ARE alternatives to being a fascist, you know?
maybe you don't. and you would NOT be alone.
This is the problem, really.
I'm not saying that this isn't something of concern. But you have no right to tell people how, when, how many, and which type of children to have. If we were working together instead of insisting on domination, solutions, many of which are KNOWN, would be put to practice. And people would have the right number of children. Genes are wealth. Love is mysterious.
There ARE alternatives to being a fascist, you know?
maybe you don't. and you would NOT be alone.
This is the problem, really.
man, this sure came out wrong. Children are eating up our resources? Let's just clone some old guys from now on. Oh excellent, we can get rid of breasts for good!. Hey, are you bald? We can't have that in future humanity. Say what, wearing glasses? Nah, better put you out in the gas chamber. Don't worry, it's painless, we want only the best of the best.braincell wrote:yet we still give tax breaks for children even though they are eating up our resources.
Re: the third wave
your anger is misdirected
(edit: took the file off, noone heard it anyway)
(edit: took the file off, noone heard it anyway)
Last edited by Tau on Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: the third wave
As right as you may be, can you tell us what the best course of action should be in terms of tackling the over-crowding issues in built-up areas such as towns & cities? As far as I can see, it's not only an issue of space, but also an issue of control or lack thereof. The space issue could be 'changed' by spreading or moving people out into the surrounding areas of towns & cities as has always been the case (besides the sad multi-story housing concept) or even relocating large portions into developments in the wilderness somewhere, but that won't fix anything in the big picture, just promote expansion of taxable 'citizens'.garyb wrote:there are NOT too many people in the world.
So what about the major issue of resources. Who owns them? Do you own the resource on your doorstep or the one under your home? Who owns the right to charge the masses for using them? Who owns the right to tax the masses for speaking & supposed freedom to do so? Should I continue?
Edit- Tau, do you think we don't already live with fascism?
Re: the third wave
who owns these "national debts"?
these problems are small. first you must extract the virus running in your boot sector...
these problems are small. first you must extract the virus running in your boot sector...
Re: the third wave
I've got severe doubts about our ability to manage that boot sector gary.
Re: the third wave
Shroomz: Yes, of course, it's happening now. In many ways. And we still refuse to believe it, and act appropriately.
The problem is transforming the Earth into a Man-made, Man-designed experience / environment, without taking into account the WHOLE picture. Everybody gets a piece of the picture and is trying to get the other pieces from the others. It won't work.
The Earth is a very well designed ehhhrrrrmmmmm.... place! We ARE part of the Earth, but we also ARE too conscious, too vast in our abilities to remain stuck in our ways, like other animals. We are in another path, want it or not. But we are on the Earth. We know, for instance, that plantlife holds the key to many diseases, some of which are now incurable. Still, we don't mind tearing down the forests without even looking. We put a few samples in a refrigerator, and expect to be able to play that tune later.
Progress can only be a function of two things: interaction between different entities, or active imagination. We are being hampered in our imagination, colonized with ideas, distracted with the lights. Entertained. Uniformized. And the ones that are different, are being ridiculed, killed, or put to silence.
I don't know how to solve the problems of overpopulation and so on... I think NOBODY knows. But I'm sure there's a natural solution. Not just catastrophical, but we are nature too! As people begin to see through the whole charade, they'll talk to their friends, form groups, join forces and change! We need good ideas! But we are only depending on ourselves to make it.
Happy thoughts!
Don't know who said that "Matters of great importance should be treated lightly, while matters of little importance should be trated with discipline." I read it as: do not try to think for "everyone", but do act upon yourself. So who's going to claim to be the know-all leader? What secrets will be unveiled? What great show will be put up so that we surrender completely?
They put down humanity, make us hate ourselves, so that we leave or beings vacant of any will. Humanity has been doing what the sheperds have been telling it to do. You wanna blame this on the animals?
The problem is transforming the Earth into a Man-made, Man-designed experience / environment, without taking into account the WHOLE picture. Everybody gets a piece of the picture and is trying to get the other pieces from the others. It won't work.
The Earth is a very well designed ehhhrrrrmmmmm.... place! We ARE part of the Earth, but we also ARE too conscious, too vast in our abilities to remain stuck in our ways, like other animals. We are in another path, want it or not. But we are on the Earth. We know, for instance, that plantlife holds the key to many diseases, some of which are now incurable. Still, we don't mind tearing down the forests without even looking. We put a few samples in a refrigerator, and expect to be able to play that tune later.
Progress can only be a function of two things: interaction between different entities, or active imagination. We are being hampered in our imagination, colonized with ideas, distracted with the lights. Entertained. Uniformized. And the ones that are different, are being ridiculed, killed, or put to silence.
I don't know how to solve the problems of overpopulation and so on... I think NOBODY knows. But I'm sure there's a natural solution. Not just catastrophical, but we are nature too! As people begin to see through the whole charade, they'll talk to their friends, form groups, join forces and change! We need good ideas! But we are only depending on ourselves to make it.
Happy thoughts!
Don't know who said that "Matters of great importance should be treated lightly, while matters of little importance should be trated with discipline." I read it as: do not try to think for "everyone", but do act upon yourself. So who's going to claim to be the know-all leader? What secrets will be unveiled? What great show will be put up so that we surrender completely?
They put down humanity, make us hate ourselves, so that we leave or beings vacant of any will. Humanity has been doing what the sheperds have been telling it to do. You wanna blame this on the animals?
Re: the third wave
Shroomz, the bootsector is flashable! Isn't it what the "experiment" on the text showed?
But who will you choose to flash it? Anybody you trust?
I trust the manufacturer, and it's support is continued, although it suffers from hostile actions from competitor firmware designers. A bit like S!C
And virus aren't to be taken lightly.
But really, all it takes is Sex and Psychedelics! (had to say this sometime in my life)
But who will you choose to flash it? Anybody you trust?
I trust the manufacturer, and it's support is continued, although it suffers from hostile actions from competitor firmware designers. A bit like S!C
And virus aren't to be taken lightly.But really, all it takes is Sex and Psychedelics!
(had to say this sometime in my life)-
kensuguro
- Posts: 4434
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- Contact:
Re: the third wave
The aging problem is something Japan has been facing for a long time. The structure itself isn't too much of a problem from what I know. Kind of like the social security thing in the US. If there are enough younger generations to support the economy (and the elderly), then atleast the economy would run better. But the negative spiral works as such that because of the dark economy, people have less kids, causing even lower production and consumption. Problem with Japan is that becuase of the well developed infrastructure (bullet trains, etc), the metropolitan areas and rural areas are becoming fused, and so you loose that "city people with not kids, country people with 8 brothers" structure. It's a tug o' war..
From my perspective, financial stability does play a huge role in planning a family. Pretty obvious, I know, but not just to cover expenses, but you also need to think about your qol, your family's qol.. You may sacrifice everything and raise a child, but then what's a family when the parents are always about to burst from unhappiness? (not that money=happiness, but it relates) Living in an environment like that will instill strange perceptions of society that will create something like a slum. Certain mentalities arise from the lack of money, and it becomes chronic. Sometimes good, but mostly bad I think. I know I'm getting a bit of that cut throat-ness from being in NY.
I agree with Tau with nature tho. There's something about kids growing up in a good environment that you can't achieve by just reading a bunch of books. (or reading blogs about, googling... etc.) I grew up in a tropical island during times of political crisis. Didn't think anything about it 'till I was in my late 20's.
From my perspective, financial stability does play a huge role in planning a family. Pretty obvious, I know, but not just to cover expenses, but you also need to think about your qol, your family's qol.. You may sacrifice everything and raise a child, but then what's a family when the parents are always about to burst from unhappiness? (not that money=happiness, but it relates) Living in an environment like that will instill strange perceptions of society that will create something like a slum. Certain mentalities arise from the lack of money, and it becomes chronic. Sometimes good, but mostly bad I think. I know I'm getting a bit of that cut throat-ness from being in NY.
I agree with Tau with nature tho. There's something about kids growing up in a good environment that you can't achieve by just reading a bunch of books. (or reading blogs about, googling... etc.) I grew up in a tropical island during times of political crisis. Didn't think anything about it 'till I was in my late 20's.
Re: the third wave
Japan needs to allow immigration and stop being xenophobic.
Re: the third wave
do they really?
Re: the third wave
For crying out loud braincell, get some joy in your life.
More myopic, selfish, dour words.
More myopic, selfish, dour words.
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
Re: the third wave
This is gonna piss some people off, I think. I kind of agree with Braincell (at least in some regards) on this one. It seems, if there is an island that supports say 1,000 people living comfortably, that it makes no sense to think that God wants us to have 10,000 babies and then fight over resources. But I suppose, since I think this way, I must, deep down, really desire to reduce the world's population to 100,000,000 by a programme of brutal extermination because I hate all people and worship Satan, etc. Which is what I would honestly describe as religious propaganda and I am very familiar with this line of argumentation. I wonder if the person who chopped down the last tree on Easter Island was thinking, now God HAS TO come and save us, or else we'll just die out?
It's odd how completely opposed to even DISCUSSING these issues that some people are. OK, say the planet CAN support 6 billion people. What happens if we clean up our messes, strive to get along, and feed everyone. Well, NEXT year, we will have 12 billion people to feed. Then what? 24 billion? 48 billion? 96 trillion? At SOME point is it acceptable to consider that maybe we are not in danger of extinction and there should be some encouraged balance, that people who don't have children are not necessarily selfish and evil by definition? Or must we trust that God will magically help us out (i.e. that he didn't in the first place, by giving us brains to steer our way through these things).
Could the reason that all major religions promote 'go forth and multiply' to the extent they do be a simple one? It does ensure your side will have the bigger army, when push comes to shove.
It's odd how completely opposed to even DISCUSSING these issues that some people are. OK, say the planet CAN support 6 billion people. What happens if we clean up our messes, strive to get along, and feed everyone. Well, NEXT year, we will have 12 billion people to feed. Then what? 24 billion? 48 billion? 96 trillion? At SOME point is it acceptable to consider that maybe we are not in danger of extinction and there should be some encouraged balance, that people who don't have children are not necessarily selfish and evil by definition? Or must we trust that God will magically help us out (i.e. that he didn't in the first place, by giving us brains to steer our way through these things).
Could the reason that all major religions promote 'go forth and multiply' to the extent they do be a simple one? It does ensure your side will have the bigger army, when push comes to shove.
Re: the third wave
I don't think we have yet reached the point Earth is overpopulated.
Now let's think the other way:
We could suggest to eliminate peoples elderly people, they don't bring anything to humanity!
Or if it is not enought, we could set a level below which you're not allowed to leave, for example below 200Keuro a year! and lower the level if it is not enought!
F%§£g selfish behaviour!
What allow you to say I brings more to humanity then my neighbour?
You are being worried because price increase and you cannot buy what you want ... than maybe because humanity doesn't value what you think you deliver ... You then should be eliminated ... according to your own criteria!
From the childrens to come (or not according to your selfish position) there might be a future Brilliant researcher composer, peinter .. or an awfull dictator ... but for sure none of us are .... so we should be eliminated!
Think to this...
Long live green soilent!
Now let's think the other way:
We could suggest to eliminate peoples elderly people, they don't bring anything to humanity!
Or if it is not enought, we could set a level below which you're not allowed to leave, for example below 200Keuro a year! and lower the level if it is not enought!
F%§£g selfish behaviour!
What allow you to say I brings more to humanity then my neighbour?
You are being worried because price increase and you cannot buy what you want ... than maybe because humanity doesn't value what you think you deliver ... You then should be eliminated ... according to your own criteria!
From the childrens to come (or not according to your selfish position) there might be a future Brilliant researcher composer, peinter .. or an awfull dictator ... but for sure none of us are .... so we should be eliminated!
Think to this...
Long live green soilent!
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
Re: the third wave
Invariably, to even discuss issues relating to population, means I want to kill old people and babies, I want to kill the weak and useless. WTF? How are these these things SO related? Just because someone says they are?
"You then should be eliminated ... according to your own criteria!"
I'm sure if resources were evenly distributed that I would receive a massive decline in my standard of living. Unfortunate for me - but not what I would dare call 'unjust'. Are we ALL hypocrites for being wealthy enough to post on this board in the first place? Possibly so. I have foster children in Africa - big deal, it's not like that's anything but 'what money I have extra' - even when I am out of work in North America I can subsidize them - ironic eh? I'm down and out, but they consider it prosperity. Makes it difficult for me to complain about ANYTHING - I already live like a prince, no doubt about it.
And yes GaryB I am aware that most aid organizations are fronts for CIA etc and my particular one was implicated in the Sabra and Shatila massacres. I have mixed feelings about my donations. Am I really helping anything by sending them money?
"You then should be eliminated ... according to your own criteria!"
I'm sure if resources were evenly distributed that I would receive a massive decline in my standard of living. Unfortunate for me - but not what I would dare call 'unjust'. Are we ALL hypocrites for being wealthy enough to post on this board in the first place? Possibly so. I have foster children in Africa - big deal, it's not like that's anything but 'what money I have extra' - even when I am out of work in North America I can subsidize them - ironic eh? I'm down and out, but they consider it prosperity. Makes it difficult for me to complain about ANYTHING - I already live like a prince, no doubt about it.
And yes GaryB I am aware that most aid organizations are fronts for CIA etc and my particular one was implicated in the Sabra and Shatila massacres. I have mixed feelings about my donations. Am I really helping anything by sending them money?
Re: the third wave
It is related ... by the way the subject is being brought up!
It is in the way someone born think that a part of earth belong to him.
It is because if you are there speaking of this ... its just because you'he been allowed to birth and raise by the previous generation which was less selfish.
cheers
It is in the way someone born think that a part of earth belong to him.
It is because if you are there speaking of this ... its just because you'he been allowed to birth and raise by the previous generation which was less selfish.
cheers
Re: the third wave
My son's called Len, Liquid. Got any yourself?
Re: the third wave
FWIW, i shouldn't have retorted to b, as it was a fairly trolly post, and reactions get him off.
Now go pop out some brats, you'll love 'em
Now go pop out some brats, you'll love 'em
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
Re: the third wave
Just the sponsored children at this point (I consider the many strange people who I have met, befriended, and often helped out, kind of an extended family). I just don't understand this bit about having children that is selfish / not selfish. Some of my friends have children, some not, I don't consider the childless ones necessarily selfish (though I have actually heard that thought expressed by other people who were not renowned for their selflessness, to me). It's like saying, I had breakfast today because I was not selfish. BS. You had breakfast because your natural inclinations prompted you to, that's not to say your breakfast was wrong, but you are not a good person simply because you had a good breakfast. The world is full of things to do and people to love. It's ALL good, not just people who act and think like yourself. I don't agree with a lot of what Braincell says, and the way it was tied into this thread was a bit obnoxious, but this bit about discussion population and resource issues being directly tied to satanic population reduction is over-the-top.wayne wrote:My son's called Len, Liquid. Got any yourself?
Oh yeah, this thread had an original topic didn't it? Well I agree 100% that it is thought provoking, and here's another link that GaryB's link reminded me of.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
Re: the third wave
Hi,
Don't take it wrong!
Just I find "Funny"? how someone excluding himself of the problem ... explain it and find a solution which won't affect him (braincell). For me it is the proof of a biaised mind which remind me the time were jewish was holding the yellow stars and peoples thinking "no problem, I am not affected!".
The day I'll see someone saying there is an overpopulation problem, I AM a part of the problem and there is a possible solution which affect ME! Then I'll start to really argument and think to it!
In the long list of scarces ressources ... there is Air and Water ... So what entitle me to consume it ...
cheers
Don't take it wrong!
Just I find "Funny"? how someone excluding himself of the problem ... explain it and find a solution which won't affect him (braincell). For me it is the proof of a biaised mind which remind me the time were jewish was holding the yellow stars and peoples thinking "no problem, I am not affected!".
The day I'll see someone saying there is an overpopulation problem, I AM a part of the problem and there is a possible solution which affect ME! Then I'll start to really argument and think to it!
In the long list of scarces ressources ... there is Air and Water ... So what entitle me to consume it ...
cheers