PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

... but it was the truth, Huub
not relevant anymore as Apple uses the same Intel boards as everyone else, but we used 2 generations of Macs in the office (over a period of 10-12 years) each machine used between 5 and 6 years.
Those Macs were about 30% more expensive than the respective PC model, but lasted 300% longer - and nothing was wasted into 'courseware', training and education. Learning on the job did it.
No antivirus software and for a couple of years not even a firewall for internet use - if I remember correctly 3 harddisks failed (10 workstations/10 years), but no data loss as everything could be recovered as the first symptoms showed up...

these 'facts' were well known and frequently published, yet people ignored them completely - stupidity rules

no intention to distract from the thread, but marketing on 'facts' simply doesn't work, regardless if the company is CWA or SonicCore

cheers, Tom

delicious reading

The change to Intel I consider as great btw., I consider a mac not as a processor (I don't care at all) yet as an totally integrated (quality) machine, 'there's still only one mac', even when single components are also commercially available.

sorry, even more OT

astroman wrote:...not relevant anymore as Apple uses the same Intel boards as everyone else, but we used 2 generations of Macs in the office (over a period of 10-12 years) each machine used between 5 and 6 years.
Those Macs were about 30% more expensive than the respective PC model, but lasted 300% longer - and nothing was wasted into 'courseware', training and education. Learning on the job did it.
No antivirus software and for a couple of years not even a firewall for internet use - if I remember correctly 3 harddisks failed (10 workstations/10 years), but no data loss as everything could be recovered as the first symptoms showed up...

these 'facts' were well known and frequently published, yet people ignored them completely - stupidity rules

(quoting, cause next page

incidentally if you spend that 30% more on a PC you also get a machine that lasts 3-5 years. I typically build my boxes around workstation class boards & xeon chips, larger quality cases, psu's and so on (ie, not the budget level stuff). Although I use several machines my main box is replaced every 4-5 years.

most f*cking thing is, apple left PCI completely.
It makes all the difference, and leaves me powerless

Workstation & Server class hardware actually left 32bit 33mhz PCI some time ago as well, so it's rare to find 32bit PCI slots on boards like that in general. However the advantage of multiple vendors is you're more likely to find a solution that fits your needs.

Personally I'm not anti or pro Mac or PC (or Linux etc). I've used many different OS's and computers and I find they're all basically computers in the end. I have actually had Macs off & on over the years (last was a g4). I'm considering one again since if I don't get one I'm getting closed to having to find something to replace Logic with. Which leads me to why I usually choose a given platform, by the application.

well, my point was in no way Mac versus PC related, but about undeniable advantages from a pure business oriented viewpoint - and that is time and cost.

Between 1990 and 2000 you actually could upgrade any Mac system by a simple file copy of the new OS, not even an installer or 'wizzard' bs was needed and all your major software kept running - you actually could choose if you wanted an upgrade or didn't need it.

Just remember the OS mess that M$ produced in that decade and the follow-up cost after the initial purchase, the requirement for constant tech support.
If you had a Mac user with a broken OS on the phone, you could tell him to reboot the machine from a CD and replace the thing called 'system folder' by a copy from a backup and 15 minutes later all was up and running again - did you ever try that with Windoze 3.1, 95, 98, NT, W2K, XP ?

Now give me one good reasons why these machines didn't sell like hell ?
Believe me, we've discussed this problem with high ranked executives from Apple and with equally high ranked 'key-accounts' who had a pro-Apple attitude...
As experienced and skilled all those participants were - noone had a clue why marketing failed, whatever they did.
TCO isn't just a buzzword if you can present real world figures

So it's bare nonsense to point to SonicCore's marketing (or 'facts' about the big SFP advantages) and consider them responsible.
Their 'functional' solution is as mass-market compatible as Apple's system was - and the latter definetely was the best user(!) oriented desktop OS ever.
Not a server OS, not the driver for a 5k machine infrastructure, not for a number crunching cluster - a desktop OS, and that's what 90% of the small business and private users would want.
But they still didn't buy it - marketing on that scale is a different process...

... as Apple brilliantly demonstrated with their latest cash cow - the i-pod
noone really needs it and everyone wants one (admittedly or not)
now they have their own license to print money and M$ isn't alone anymore, how cute...

you probably don't want SonicCore to go the Apple way, don't you ?
not that I wouldn't wish them an equally rewarding enterprise... that's an offer (probably) noone would deny... but in the sense of our own tech&sound obsession it just wouldn't be nice

imho one should be aware for which part of the market one is working, focussing energy on what's reasonable and possible.
It may require some re-thinking of prices, too - and we as customers and SonicCore as manufacturers should be proud about the products - for example the upcoming Solaris hardware...
a Scope pro with both software packages is rock bottom to a degree that it almost spoils the system's reputation - ok, it's clear that there were certain reasons for the price developement... but the fact remains

cheers, Tom

labou wrote:Good point, I'm using a Dell E520 Intel Core 2 Duo with their stock intel mobo.
I never used analog studio gears, however I have been introduce to ASIO/WAVE routing with my current EMU 1616 sound card, so that part shouldn't be too bad to get up to.
I'm exclusively using vsti for everything I'm doing at the exception of guitar/bass and vocal that I record. As it is I do not owe high quality plugin and synth emulation, so scope could fill that gap. Also the reason I need DSP is that I'm constantly maxing out my CPU and track bouncing is just always a big puzzle because of send/return being used.

Thanks.

i also have a fairly stock machine - ie. not optimised for music at all, w/ dual core and scope runs fine. note that if you end up getting the pro card its effin huge - i had to cut into part of the inside of my case for it to fit. and in regards to 'ease of use' of scope, i only had to consult the manual when setting it up/installing stuff - which i find pretty unintuitive - but actually working w/ the scope environment is pretty straight forward i think.

i'm with valis on the mac/pc thing. there's no difference between a good pc and a mac. they're both just computers. you use them to do things.

as to why macs don't sell more? that's part of marketing. apple has purposely placed itself in the "exclusive" category. it is the brand for aristocrats artists and intellectuals, superior future people. this "branding" was done by the parent company microsoft because it's important to cover all aspects of society if you want a product to be all pervasive. there's a reason why two platforms have become one(RISC- CISC) and 3 os's have become 2(windows, apple, unix). part of this is just the natural evolution of products, but a good deal of it is just basic, good ole manipulation of the market through monopoly, all via Gates and the organizations he's formerly and currently a major player in(M$ and Apple). if too many macs are sold, the brand is useless....

garyb wrote:as to why macs don't sell more? that's part of marketing. apple has purposely placed itself in the "exclusive" category. it is the brand for aristocrats artists and intellectuals, superior future people.

Are you also afraid getting to get a cowbow when buying a Marlboro pack?

I 've got scope and uad ,I tend not to use uad . They sound good but 1) the plugs are friggin expensive 2) you are getting latency again 3) when you use uad you definitely know there is a plug in place but scope is more subtle . Of course I am a cretin but I'd get as much scope as I could get my hands on
Cheers
Paul

hubird wrote:

garyb wrote:as to why macs don't sell more? that's part of marketing. apple has purposely placed itself in the "exclusive" category. it is the brand for aristocrats artists and intellectuals, superior future people.

Are you also afraid getting to get a cowbow when buying a Marlboro pack?

you misunderstand me. i like your joke, though.
i'm not afraid of any of that stuff, including cowboys..............

maybe it wasn't the best example as some myths about Apple will always distract, so let's just assume (for simplicity)...

despite all their marketing efforts the company wasn't able to establish significant sales with a fact's based customer adressing...
... but made billions with a stylish nonsense hype that even generated it's own 'need'

that about mass marketing

cheers, Tom

thank you.