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On 2006-08-30 11:22, wolf wrote:
regarding low shelf:
you could put a low cut around 30Hz and then use a low shelf if you need to boost some lows.

that would give you a bell shape...
besides i tend to mix with not much under 60 with 80-120 being my power base for the bass... makes it more compatible with most stereos.

regarding phase distortion:
to make it even more complicated, it is not a phase shift in regard to another channel but in regard to frequency. Better said by sending a signal through a filter, some but not all signal frequencies are shifted depending on bandwidth, frequency, gain and filter kind.

true! the phase is within the audio between the frequencies. this also gives the eq's alot of their charecter. this is a factor that needs to be considered when selecting an eq

linear phase filters don't exhibit this behaviour.

for more reading material i suggest googling "IIR FIR Filters" to understand the diference (wolf i know you know this is for those who dont )

btw, an EQ is a kind of distiortion as well.

how is that?
i cant figure that out.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ReD_MuZe on 2006-08-30 11:58 ]</font>

Great thread. I haven't got much to add except mabye to say that, I think I abuse eq's rather than use

that would give you a bell shape...

kind of .. you can cover a greater frequency area without boosting the mid freq. while having sharper edges (in contrast to a para eq with high bandwidth).

besides i tend to mix with not much under 60 with 80-120 being my power base for the bass... makes it more compatible with most stereos.

yeah, lots of "hifi" equipment even doesn't go below 80Hz. And the other stuff just does a big wooom, regardless if there are lows or not

btw, an EQ is a kind of distiortion as well.

how is that?
i cant figure that out.

well, strictly spoken, everything, what changes the spectral content, "distorts" the signal, just a matter of definition

On 2006-08-30 06:15, ReD_MuZe wrote :

7. linear phase eq's or minumum phase eq's are best for punchy transparent sound.

equing is not linear phase .

this is the aim of eqing.
once you "touch " a freq whatever it is, you act on its phase !
there is no other possibility ! physically speaking !
cheers,
olive

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sonolive on 2006-08-30 13:10 ]</font>

I like the sounds of most of my synths and samples now because I just add a touch of PsyQ to my acoustic samples, and Celmo's Pultecator on synths if I am layering 2 or 3 pads with different ADSR's. MYCYRANNO's Move EQ is a neat little trick on Autopanning of Rhodes, and Wurlitzer samples. This works 4 me in keyboard submixing, as it adds color and seperation to the layers and acoustic samples. On a FOH mix, which I don't have to bother with till October that is, I will be hunting around, but I have a feeling that someone will be making me something that will keep me from hunting.

I Am Afraid That All We Have Done Is Too Awaken A Sleeping Giant And Fill Him With A Modular Resolve.

_________________
Jimmy V.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-08-30 13:29 ]</font>

equing is not linear phase .
this is the aim of eqing.

yes, in mixing such coloring of a signal might be wanted and the frequency dependant phase drift gives each eq it's own character as Red_Muze pointed out.
In mastering this is not wanted.

once you "touch " a freq whatever it is, you act on its phase !
there is no other possibility ! physically speaking !

Well, technically spoken its absolutely possible. It just needs more computing power as the not and not that much shifted frequencies must be delayed accordingly.

not only it is physicaly possible to create a linear phase eq, there are several plugins featuring linear phase and minimum phase techniques. they do not fit everything and in my taste have no charecter, but they are excelent in keeping the punch in tackt and sounding very transparent.

if scope would have enough memory i would have created one ages ago.

here is a little reading material:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_phase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_design#IIR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_%28waves%29



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ReD_MuZe on 2006-08-30 14:37 ]</font>

not to mention that pcs are progressing so fast we will soon see additive resynthesis effects,

with those you can easily eq with total phase alignment.

here's something about linear and zero-phase filters as well:
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/ ... Phase.html

hey wolf!
its always a pleasure exchanging information with you

Good replies!

Well I am having loads of fun with the EQ. I think I will stay with my sequencers EQ's for the time being. I dont like the PEQ4 too much!

I notice nice results cutting the lower frequencies, and creating room around 140hz for the kickdrums.

Also the basslines, I boost them in the upper frequencies (4000 <> 8000). Seems to give them a nice spark!

Also its nice to have the lower frequencies done by PsyQ. I filter them out first, then with PsyQ I boost it like there is no tomorrow

On 2006-08-30 14:02, wolf wrote:

once you "touch " a freq whatever it is, you act on its phase !
there is no other possibility ! physically speaking !

Well, technically spoken its absolutely possible. It just needs more computing power as the not and not that much shifted frequencies must be delayed accordingly.

What method technically would be used to detect & correct phase changes in real time? Some kind of PLL variant?

On 2006-08-31 01:42, ReD_MuZe wrote:
hey wolf!
its always a pleasure exchanging information with you

like it is with you

What method technically would be used to detect & correct phase changes in real time? Some kind of PLL variant?

there's no need to detect it as the filter response is usually known.

ReD_MuZe wrote:

3. subtracting will sound cleaner than adding. its better to cut frequencies than to boost. for the simple fact is that when you boost you essentialy cut all of the other frequencies (its all a matter of balance) when you cut you have more precision in controling the tonal balance, and you wont loose most of your sound.

One way of finding the right frequency to cut is to first of all set a medium-sized Q for the EQ and then set the EQ to boost by a few DB.

Then run this up and down the frequency range until it sounds "really bad". Modify the Q value until you're isolating the "bad" frequency and then change the boost into a cut

The amount of cut and the Q factor might need a bit more tweaking to produce the required effect, but I use this technique a lot to find the frequencies I want to remove from a signal.

a quick way of doing a phase linear filtering with IIR filter is running a material twice thru the filter, forwards and backwards (ie reversed) with boost/cut amount in dB halved.
there is a plugin that uses this method in real time by using windowed buffer - it is called ParPLEQ if my memory serves me.
The method is btw described in great JOS article that Wolf linked above

You're right Michu, it's this one > <a href="http://refinedaudiometrics.com/products ... l">PLParEQ </a> by Refined Audiometrics Laboratory

for eq dialog, i don't think anyone has said if the digital audiosoft eq's are just a reworking of GuI or are good eq's , anyone have an opinion on the programming?

I think that most of the synths I run do not need any EQ, except to cut the low end maybe in extremely low octave presets such as the Prodyssey demonstrates. When I start using SFP DAW 4 FOH work, I'm sure I will be experimenting frequently. But 4 my synths and samples I really love MYCYRRANO's movEQ on my Rhodes, and more recently SpaceF's modEQ. These are slightly off topic here, but these frequency shifting techniques add serious motion to any synth mixes w/o resorting to the often used filter sweeps and such. Picture the quality Rhodes from Scarbee, now auto pan it with slightly different EQ's per channel in stereo on every pan. It is absolutely beautiful. Then there's SpaceF's modEQ, the slowest Wah-Wah pedal I ever heard!! I use a basic hardware potentiometer 4 a controller and EQ sweeps and such on synths live. If I could have played with the Bee Gee's using this stuff I could have been a contender.


Cut, Not Boost,

This is a good Linear Phase eq (with what they call "maximum" as well as minimum phase capabilities - it has lots of diferent filter types - sort of like a swiss army knife

http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php?id=3

I've also been checking out this eq and it has a very good sound and clear controls - something with musical character if you want it though can also be more transparent:

http://www.eliosound.com/aireq

Not cheap but the demo is almost unlimited (just won't save presets) so worth a try.