PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

On 2006-06-30 15:21, garyb wrote:
why?
there are plenty of devices like that.

It was just irony.

On 2006-06-29 16:42, soul-synthesis wrote:
Just my guess but I reckon it's highly unlikely that CWA will develop drivers for vista.
Is there any real benefit in using or upgrading to vista? XP seems to work pretty good for everyone.

I could have quoted anyone, but randomly chose this one. CW has to options: provide drivers for Vista or die.

Yes, I don't need to upgrade. You neither. But CW will need new customers. Hell, one year from now and you are unable to find XP license anywhere...
I guess CW can't live on old customers forever.

Vista will try to be what Tiger or Leopard is for years now

On 2006-09-26 00:37, hubird wrote:
Vista will try to be what Tiger or Leopard is for years now

I can only hope it's not at bad as that

Apple has appropriated major OS features features from MS 'demos' back when Vista was called Longhorn. Both wouldn't be where they are today without certain Xerox/PARC 'demos'.

I think that we will also need more than just drivers for Scope to work properly on Vista. Not just the audio driver model changed, for example Vista also does away with the GDI/GDI+ model with the DirectX 10 implementation.

who wants to jump on Vista, you cannot even view a movie without connecting to the license owner.



But I aggree, CW has to built some Vista drivers and they should come as fast as possible.

Every professional company does this to make sure they can sell their products in future...

It will be some work, but I think its not that hard for a real driver developer to convert the existing driver to Vista version...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hifiboom on 2006-09-26 08:54 ]</font>

The only thing that don't change, is the calculator.
Same as win98, win95 and even windows 1.5 (from just after WW2)

On 2006-09-26 10:52, stardust wrote:
well I think it is already visible with OSX what will happen. If the driver model is really different, and the GDI DX10 thing needs code changes, there is nothing to expect on classic scope. [speculation off]

I think the case is a bit different with Vista. New Macs don't even have PCI slots anymore to put your CW cards into but there will be PC motherboards with PCI slots for many years. IMHO CW should really consider writing Linux drivers and GUI for Scope rather than for OSX.

The more I go, the less I care about “how much” I own in terms of technology, and the more and more I care about what I “do” musically.

The fuss time is gone for me. I want crystal clear navigability, user experience, reliability. I don’t care the least about visual effects that are not expressly useful and meaningful to the practical wisdom of working in front of a computer.

All quirks that could make my experience more visually attractive but less practical in terms of how the workflow moves when I’m in front of the screen, it makes no sense for me. I could for sure amuse myself for about the first 40 minutes, yea, but then, I would disable everything to win power, usability and... STABILITY...

If Windows Vista exists, it is because there is a market for it, ready to jump on, but this market does not include people like me and many of us here. For me, the best would have been to rewrite XP doing it rock solid, compatible to everything possible, rethink its security holes and that’s it.

When HTML arrived to its maximum development, it stopped being developed and nobody is suffering for it, because it works as it should, we use that constantly in millions and millions of pages everyday. Bread exists since the early times and we still eat it every single day, and nobody wants to change it. When something becomes so good that there is no need to change it, there is no need for complications. Of course technology is something that is fast moving, so new software is a must, but perhaps as a way of perfecting it, not changing completely the platform every 5 or 6 years... Win XP is already quite a good beast; it just needs to be perfected. This would happen in a world where marketing does not exists, but of course, this is not the case.

So Scope is not compatible with Vista? Don't see an official response from CW here. Has anyone bothered to contact them to ask the question? I'd like to know what the future holds. I can't escape the feeling that this is the proverbial brick wall we've been heading towards for the past 3 or 4 years.

Irregardless of personal feelings for MS, there are some inherent advantages to Vista that I'd like to investigate. DAW mfg's are already releasing 64 bit recording apps (Sonar).

Is this the end of the line for Scope?

vista for consumers isn't even shipping till after the new year. remember the jump to xp? in the best of times, the process was slow.

To me all the more reason to make it run on Linux. This has remained constant, fast reliable. More and more audio apps are chiming in.

Because as someone pointed out there will be no XP licenses available oneday.


LINUX please CW

well, seeing as most people will be switching to Vista at some point (I know I will) I'd rather see Vista drivers before Linux

I'm quite confident that Creamware will support Vista just as they did XP. I don't see a reason why not really,

And even though I really like XP, I think Vista is actually looking rather good, and most of the reviews I've read of the most recent builds have been pretty favourable as well.

okay I'm not into the technology behind the Vista upgrade...
are you saying it will be too hard/too much work for them to redesign Scope drivers for Vista? Just like OSX?

I hope so, as it will force them to work on a decent external box or die.

stardust wrote: Well, what I know is that the driver model has changed.

Aye, quite dramatically.

what I dont know if the XP drivers can still be used and what effort it is to adapt.

XP/2K (WDM) drivers will not be able to be used with Vista; Vista's drivers have been taken out of Kernel space, WDM drivers live in Kernel space. That is a markedly fundamental difference.

Um, imagine an alien trying to buy something in an Earth shop using Martian currency...whilst speaking Martian...

The Martian might be trying to buy the correct item and be offering the correct amount of money, but his words will require translation and his currency converted first before there can be the required transaction.

Royston

stardust wrote:thanks royston for the insight,
thats what thought. So it is not just a recompiling I guess.

No. I'd have thought that guts of the driver could stay exactly the same, but the interface layer would need to be changed to fit the new environment.

arela wrote:The only thing that don't change, is the calculator.
Same as win98, win95 and even windows 1.5 (from just after WW2)

but you should be aware of the slight possibility not being allowed to run the vista calculator on 98 without a valid vista license.
and maybe you have to install dotnet 3.x to run it

ok, jokes aside. there will be either vista drivers (which I do not consider absolutely impossible) OR scope in its current form is dead.
not for those who keep their hardware until it dies, but they (cw) won't get new customers, forcing them to use hard- and software that can only be bought used.

imho, everything depends on what cw is focussing on. they seem to have found a new market segment with their asb/klangbox gear, and maybe this is their future way to go.

keeping scope alive is not only a driver-only issue:

1) nowadays conventional pci is dying. it started all on the mac, and continues as the hardware base for pc and mac get closer than ever before. you can hardly find a recent mobo with 3 pci slots, and scope was never certified for magma-like extensions, although magma themselves made some promising compliance tests, and afair there are some scope users here on planetz using it.

2) you can hardly avoid being equipped with multicore processor systems, and the last thing I read about scope and multiprocessor systems is that this is known to be unstable, and of course not certified. so the application itself would have to be rewritten, and some pointed out that gdi/gdi+ will play a role here, too.

I'd love to see scope on linux, yes, but I don't expect it to be there. as well as I don't expect major audio applications to be ported soon.

but if cw should ever switches to pci-e, I'm sure there will be vista and maybe even osx drivers and the application. that could be otherwise mean a break concerning compatibility.

so build your scope system a shrine, bow down before it every day and wander around without shoes in your studio, as it is holy ground. seal your xp (or win2k) cd and licence sticker and lock it in the safe. once it breaks, it may be all over...

(sorry, I forgot the tripledat users: your 98 system is even much holier, and maybe incense would be preferable over smoking in your studio )

-greetings, markus-

EDIT:

the conroe thread over there in Tech Talk raises my hope that multicore should not be the limiting factor anymore. if magma works as well, the risk is reduced down to the xp license. but taking a bow every now and then does not harm, imho .

From Creamware support...


Scope 4.0 is able to be operated under Windows Vista ( 32 bit ).

BUT it requires a little workaround here.

After installation of the Scope drivers you won't find any audio units within the system settings under audio !
By using right-mouse click into the empty window, you have to enable the option "Show deactivated units" within the context menue.
Now activate the existing Scope boards and rename the unit naming and also define Scope as default Output + Recording gear for the Vista system.

A thing not yet possible is having the Scope software within Autostart after Windows restart.