PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

But it won't run Max. No matter how well you treat it

And there is no sdk offered with noah.

Which is most unfortunate.

Dear BinezOr,
I still have my ancient TX816 w/ the QX-1. I sampled it in SFP to play through GS3 Orchestra. I only really missed those thick, belly FM EP Pads. But it's just another example of what SFP can do. I am building a second DAW like you are also. You have done your homework, as our prices are the same. It's my second DAW, and I have lost most of my large touring rig because of it's stengths. The sound one gets from modular has now given me the ability to remove my last peice of analog synth from stage. If I decide to tour again, no problemo, as the Matrix 12/XPander, and the SE-1x's will be right there with Scope. But the B3 w/ 147's is history. I will never punish my crew again with that obese behemouth. B2003 w/ Pro3t is quite convincing, not to mention the ability to assign certain combinations of drawbars to one drawbar on the controllers I use. Scope's sound and routing are where it's at 4 me. But building your own VST's and using receptor sound good too. I focus on automation and flexibility 4 live work, as when I'm in the studio, power of crunching is of no consequence, as I simply do tracks and call it a day. I think that receptor from muse was good to get VST's on stage more, but IMO, as I have played opposite of Brainspawn Forte/ VSTi rigs, the fellow keyboardists always ask if I'm using hardware synths racked up. As there is quite a fat sound coming from SFP stuff compared to Arturia,NI,Vaz,and other VST based synths. These are as good as my analogs in sound quality and there is no comparison with the routing flexibilty. It's all in our heads and ears, and that is what mine are saying. By all means buy both, but be forewarned, I bought 3 x 6 DSP first time around, and now I must add another DAW with 45. So don't fuck around with Luna, or Project. Get the FAT BASTARDS.

_________________
Jimmy V.

P.S. Guys Next Door was not appropriate, but the guys opposite of me are using VSTi's, and I punish them on a nightly basis.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-06-19 09:00 ]</font>

I guess it is silly to compare the two platforms. I can't come up with a good argument as to why I personally view them as being markedly similar merely for the philosophy of how I would use individual modules, regardless of their platform, albeit...

I called samash to get a quote on a UAD-1 card, just for shits and giggles. The whole proaudio thing really makes me want to vomit my gizzards out, turns out the price he offered me yesterday has been outdated and the price is now higher, even though I spent 30 minutes in the store and he said I could think about it. I hate proaudio shops. What a bunch of nazi scum suckers.

I feel like SCOPE is on its way out, I don't know why I feel that way... It's sort of how the website is setup and the difficulty I seem to have on getting information, even on the layout of the creamware.de webpage.... Theres a feeling of neglect all around and incompleteness that seems to bother me. I appreciate everyones comments to date and I will seriously consider getting a SCOPE setup sometime in the near future for maybe use with Live/Fruity.

It seems like the best platform out there.. I really want to go for it and jump on the bandwagon but the fear of future updates seems to really bother me. I would really like to see an updated card as well, instead of spending a huge chunk of change on a fading product. I don't know! It's kind of bizarre, it hasn't quite reached that collectors item level yet and its more like an outdated version of whatever. Sigh.

binez0r

On 2006-06-19 15:16, binez0r wrote:
... It's sort of how the website is setup and the difficulty I seem to have on getting information, even on the layout of the creamware.de webpage....

honestly, they've never been very good in marketing - that's why the stuff is so affordable.
CWA is an anachronism like Apple was 15 years ago - if you want them to take the same turn ... that might become expensive.

They've had financial trouble (as you probably have heard) and are a little more 'realistic' now regarding their economic balance
It's true that you can call the Scope cards/software combination outdated or non-continued - to the same degree which applies to the Minimoog or the DX7, both are a classic in their domain.

If one is fairly good in a sport (no matter which one) it's an enormous effort to become 'just a little' better

cheers, Tom

Updates are overrated and end up being expensive and complicated. They also kill productivity and getting to know your tools and use them skilfully.

it all depends on whether you want the very latest tech or a really good product. you can still buy isa motherboards because for some purposes, old isa cards are still used. there will be pci slots for at least another 5 years. your card will be useful longer than that.
some isa motherboards:
http://www.ibase-i.com.tw/mb800.htm
http://www.baber.com/baber/411/soyo_sy- ... pe-isa.htm (THREE isa slots!)

the purpose of obsolesance is usually to separate you from more cash, not to actually improve anything, although improvement is sometimes a byproduct.

there are plans to keep scope current(it is NOT obsolete yet! there is NO competing product), but as with many things in life, nothing is certain.

scope IS a no brainer, however. even as an obsolete card in an old freebie machine, it will be worth using as a 20i/o effects box or synth box maybe forever. it DOES sound that good.

of course, my opinion is biased and whether or not you will be happy has nothing to do with anything objective(love is strange)....

On 2006-06-19 16:45, darkrezin wrote:
Updates are overrated and end up being expensive and complicated. They also kill productivity and getting to know your tools and use them skilfully.

I for one agree with that. I don't rush out and update. I despise pro-audio shops. I hate people that are always yabbering on about their protools not being powerful enough. I recently built some software of my own that does some pretty intensive automation stuff to standard vst plugins. In a way you can say I find myself when I know I'm pushing my cpu to the limits in an intelligent, sophisticated way. I like pushing hardware/software to the limit but with a clear, concise plan about what that means and not in a gibberish, nonharmonic/nonrythmic way which anyone could pull off.

I don't like when decent products are knocked off the shelf with an "out with the old, in with the new" moto. People that get depressed because their cars 3 years old and not "new" anymore should die... etc. I don't care that SCOPE is 3 years old so much as I'm worried that due to its experimental nature and being a software/hardware hybrid, that, maybe the technology might not have been quite at the right point, or well, I don't know. It seems to me silly to build a 45 DSP setup if it doesn't perform as well as say, 1 roland jv1080 in terms of polyphony/stability when working in the way that I work.. I do understand the tradeoffs. Routing/modularity/sound quality aside.., if it can't take a beating its not going to be the right platform for me. I really like to do a lot of violent and heavy automation movements using custom built software and midi over LAN (I have a seperate machine just for processing midi data in massive amounts!!)... so, yeah... automation is my "instrument" so to speak and I use IT to create my sounds..

IE... maybe you'll understand this, its the sound in between points A and B that interests me. So, I use vsts essentially just to prototype ideas fast. I think of them more as modules, IE filters.. phasers, etc.. to fuck around with . Companies such as steinberg, native instruments, waves, protools, maudio, etc really annoy me with their jargon and such.

So in the least technical respect I feel I may be a SCOPE canidate merely for the fact that I am an outsider and have always been an outsider and I also always vote for the underdog (hence why I drink cactus cooler and have an AMD chip)... but, I just don't want to go in expecting too much. I want to feel clear headed when my card arrives.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: binez0r on 2006-06-19 19:37 ]</font>

if scope was experimental bad code, it wouldn't produce grammy nominations(a mytery man on this forum) or academy awards. guys like Zimmer wouldn't bother and fairlight wouldn't have used the cards and their stock effects for this:
http://www.fairlightau.com/xtmovie_content.html
yes, the effects processor on the constellation is a scope card (optional 6 or 14dsp). the constellation is considered to be the cream of the crop in postproduction digital consoles....

of course, the card won't make the music or mix it for you, and you need to be skilled to get good results. being disapointed would be easy if you expect it to be anything other than a bunch of great devices and a nifty interface.

also, vsts are legitimate tools anytime an artist uses them....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-06-19 19:16 ]</font>

That's a stunning console.

hrm i like the idea of 'no latency' very much. one of my main irks about using vsts on seperate computers in a non compensating host is that when mixing back in i have to chop off the front which gets a bit annoying at times. Plus, the fact that scope can be used in conjunction with an asio card seems a real winner.

scope IS an asio card and a very good one...lot's of i/o, free routing and pristine sound...i don't see the need for another asio card in a scope machine, but to each his own.

Hrm, must have ready that wrong Gary. Well, I'm pretty much convined that I'll get a scope for my second computer running Max and such, I am sure I can find a way to bring harmony between the two. Hopefully XTC mode works in max with easy, but I plan on exploring the regular mode too much extent as well.

I agree that PCI is being phased out for the wrong reasons. It is a pretty old platform however. I don't feel, if Creamware is having trouble, Scope shouldnt move towards pci-express. I think itd be a silly move, especially for so little gain. I think the current platform, based on what I've read, could quite possibly be what I'm looking for and may still have plenty of life in it for someone who doesn't need to be caressed with trillions of flops a second just because thats a possibility. I plan to start with a scope professional card, and might eventually add 2 expansion cards.

On my main computer I will be routing my hardware synths with a motu 24i+2408, the Scope cards adat outputs will route into the ADAT ins on the 2408, and midi information will be sent to scope from Live over LAN. It should be a pretty fun environment to work in.

These are my hardware synths if anyones interested...

Kawai k5000R //4
Waldorf Attack //6
Yamaha FS1R //4
Yamaha P90 //2
Yamaha Tx816 //8

Ignore that trailing nonsense. I guess I would probably use modular the most in scope as it looks to me to be the most interesting of them all. The thing is, well, the one thing I am really really really interested in doing is finding someway to query midi datas current control # value without actually changing anything. I suppose I could have a list of last values and such. I store my presets in text files, I use my own format for parsing cc numbers back vst plugins or hardware synths... one of the many benefits of using max is you can define your own data structures. I am interested to see if everything will work in harmony.

Anyways, anyone know where I can get a good deal on a scope professional? You guys sold me on it, now I can't wait

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: binez0r on 2006-06-21 03:38 ]</font>

I especially like the TX816. I have had mine since 1984 with the QX-1 hardware sequencer. Those old dogs still hunt. Never have been in 4 repairs once! And they are FAT BASTARDS.
In case you are interested, here is the rig SFP replaced 4 live shows.

Helpenstill Acoustic Upright
Hammond B3 w/ 2 x Leslie 147's
Oberheim Matrix 12/ XPander w/ Custom stand
2 x Studio Electronics SE-1x's
Lexicon PCM 41 , and PCM 70
3 x Emu Emulator IV turbo's
Yamaha CS-80

I now use 2 x 88 note M Audio KS 88's
1 x SE-1x
Scope DAW w/ Gigastudio 3 Orchestra
Line 6 Echo Pro
Lexicon MPX-550

Trust me when I say, you will be glad you bought SFP. I want to hear you brag about it as all newbys do. As I am one still.

To Us, And Those Like Us,