DigitalAudioSoft M/S EQ doesn´t work correct...

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:49 am

DigitalAudioSoft M/S EQ doesn´t work correct...

Once again, i ask you (brainrox or dick) to change this title !

--> I have tested the M/S EQ, and it doesn´t work properly. If you only input a signal to the left Input the signal will be audible on Left & Right (!) at the output!
--> Somebody should get into the details of phase-problems that can occur with M/S mastering...

Our plug work properly in ... stereo mode... and that's why we developped it, for stereo mastering or stereo treatments in a mix !!!
Personally, i have never masterized a song with only the left or right channel plugged !!! it a non sense !
the MSEQ is done for stereo sources !
and i think that bx digital is also for this or am i wrong !

in order to let each user make its own opinion, why don't you propose the bx in demo mode ?
personally, i don't have it .

cordialement,
Olive

[ This Message was edited by: sonolive on 2006-05-19 11:02 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:53 am

edited

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:00 am

can we stop this plz.
thanks

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:03 am

On 2006-05-19 11:00, firubbi wrote:
can we stop this plz.
thanks

that was my last post
cheers,
olive

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Fri May 19, 2006 1:31 pm

On 2006-05-19 10:49, sonolive wrote:

--> I have tested the M/S EQ, and it doesn´t work properly. If you only input a signal to the left Input the signal will be audible on Left & Right (!) at the output!
Our plug work properly in ... stereo mode... and that's why we developped it, for stereo mastering or stereo treatments in a mix !!!
Personally, i have never masterized a song with only the left or right channel plugged !!! it a non sense !

Then can you explain why an input on just the left channel will produce output on both left and right? M/S encoding and decoding isn't supposed to mess the stereo field like that, and it'll definitely be an issue with stereo signals, i.e. part of the left signal will be leaked to the right one, and likely (not home, haven't tried it yet) part of the right signal will be leaked to the left. Big no-no for mastering, and it can be an issue for mixing also.

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:17 pm

I can only guess, but both devices controll the stereo and mono part of the signal independantly.

Supplying only one channel with a signal will have some of the signal leak into the mono portion too, no?

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:29 pm

Well I'm no expert at M/S encoding/decoding, but I'm pretty certain that encoding a signal to M/S and then decoding it back to L/R will yield a signal identical to the original one. That is just for M/S encoding/decoding alone though, without other processing/EQ/whatnot.

There might be something else in the circuit that "justifies" this behavior, which is why I am asking.

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Sat May 20, 2006 12:33 am

hi all,

here is what i have received by mail from a true gentleman.he has made the same on his bx.
"signal on the left or right channel on brainworks bx digital produce output on both left and right."

thanks for all ,thanks dirk for your good post.
our plugin M/SEQ Works fine if you plug it correctly ,like yours !!!
algorithm are very different.

thanks to you Mister X.

ev

_________________
http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com

[ This Message was edited by: digitalaudiosoft on 2006-05-20 01:49 ]

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Sat May 20, 2006 1:00 am

for darkrezin,stige,astroman and...

from my "small" home studio with 4 "small" 888 digidesign...

no comment

ev

_________________

http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com

[ This Message was edited by: digitalaudiosoft on 2006-05-20 07:14 ]

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:13 am

our plugin M/SEQ Works fine if you plug it correctly ,like yours !!!
algorithm are very different.

It's absolutely normal, that you get two mono signals out auf the MS thing, that together will be stereo again. I don't understand the problem...
So why else would there be MONO (!!!)-INSERTS in bx?!
One thing bx makes different is, that when you soloswitch the stereo-side it leads to a stereo signal-output.
When you solo the stereo-side in MSEQ it leads to y mono-signal. Try it and trust your ears: it's MONO. BUT... when you enable Mono side again stereo-side will be stereo again.

Just a very unqualified guess - I will try out later:
Maybe bx seperates the signals, leaves mono signal mono and calculates a stereo signal from mono and stereo side. So what would comes out, is mono (normally) mixed with the calculated pure stereo... Does this make sense? It would explain, why you can hear stereo side as real stereo sound...

(edit)If I'm right, that would be the trick to avoid phase-problems!!!! Eqing a pure stereo information and mixing it up with pure mono information from a signal would avoid or minimize phase problems because there is no identical parts in PURE stereo and PURE mono... am I right?

Sorry for my bad english - hope I made it clearly

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-05-20 03:16 ]

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-05-20 03:18 ]

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:17 am

Great, Digitalaudiosoft!

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:28 am

On 2006-05-20 03:13, MCCYRANO wrote:

One thing bx makes different is, that when you soloswitch the stereo-side it leads to a stereo signal-output.
When you solo the stereo-side in MSEQ it leads to y mono-signal.

there are only 2 solo on m/seq.they are made for dyneq section.all the others are mute button.
so if you mute mono section you can hear the stereo section.of course.
you are not on bx digital.

...and you don't have manual... or i don't understand you.i'm french.

ev

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:30 am

hi

for 650 euro i need to try for more of 5 hours i never understood this kind of demo
deivces and all the things you must do for try like mail creamware etc.(i mean bx demo)
for digisoft and sonolive when your devices will be ready for purchase?

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:02 am

there are only 2 solo on m/seq.they are made for dyneq section.all the others are mute button.
so if you mute mono section you can hear the stereo section.of course.
you are not on bx digital.

...and you don't have manual... or i don't understand you.i'm french.

Je ne parle pas tres bien francais...
Ich könnts halt auf deutsch versuchen...
I try it in english until we understand each other.
Sorry for calling it solo. For sure I mean 'enable the mute button for mono signal'.
To be clear: There are two red/grey buttons. When the right one is red I here the stereo SIDE but: As it is usual with MS I here it in MONO. Listen with your ears, the signal IS mono. It is called Stereo Side, yes, but is MONO = on both sides of my headphone the same sound... O.K. to be really sure, I invert one side of the output... wait a second... OH!!!!
No, it's not MONO... my ears were wrong it is PHASE INVERTED MONO on one side and on the other the normal MONO... connecting it to two mono mixer inputs it leads to.... ZEROOOO!

;o)

Martin

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:29 am

On 2006-05-20 05:02, MCCYRANO wrote:
O.K. to be really sure, I invert one side of the output... wait a second... OH!!!!
No, it's not MONO... my ears were wrong it is PHASE INVERTED MONO on one side and on the other the normal MONO... connecting it to two mono mixer inputs it leads to.... ZEROOOO!

;o)

Martin

c'est une blague !

mono section + stereo section = original signal
it's the same on brainworks bx !
martin ,you have to learn better what is ms !
on bx,stereo section is like mseq ! the phase is fully inverted like the mseq.and the sommation with mono section makes the original sound!!!
it's the reason why this topic is an nonsense !
you have to plug those fx correctly not like dirk says !

now,you make tired , if you don't understand what is bx or mseq ,return to school please.
there is no bx demo so you have to wait another gentleman!

ev
_________________

http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com

[ This Message was edited by: digitalaudiosoft on 2006-05-20 06:25 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:46 am

Wow, i've never seen anything like this thread at Planet Z. Brainrox, you don't do yourself any favours by declaring

First of all: what a GREAT idea to simply copy Plug-Ins of other SCOPE developers!

and then saying

Probably it is just coincidence

In the first staement you are directly accusing someone of stealing and in the second statement you are saying you don't actually know ("probably"). I fyou don't know for a fact someone has stolen anything then you can't begin a thread like that and not expect flames. It's bad form and should have been addressed in other ways before even considering bringing it to Planet Z. It's bad form - get your facts first, not your personal feelings.

Mr A

PS. i'm not taking sides here, because i'm waiting for the facts.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2006-05-20 05:48 ]

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:54 am

c'est une blague !

mono section + stereo section = original signal
it's the same on brainworks bx !
martin ,you have to learn better what is ms !
on bx,stereo section is like mseq ! the phase is fully inverted like the mseq.and the sommation with mono section makes the original sound!!!
it's the reason why this topic is an nonsense !
you have to plug those fx correctly not like dirk says !

now,you make tired , if you don't understand what is bx or mseq ,return to school please.
there is no bx demo so you have to wait another gentleman!

Mr. EV,
so it's right what I say. The only thing to clear up is if it's the same in BX! I have some minutes of demotime left. I will try it out and inform you.
I REMEMBER HEARING A STEREO SOUND ON BX WHEN HITTING SOLO BUTTON FOR STEREO SIDE!
I'm not saying anything against you and your product, I'm just stating FACTS.

-----------------------------------------------
And........ Tadaaaa ! I'm wrong. It's mono too on BX! I remembered wrong. Just checked it out and still seem to have demotime, if there are any questions left.
-----------------------------------------------
On the basis of what I stated in the post before I'm now trying to realize a Modular MS
editor using Neutrons MSendcoder.

Martin

P.S. I could not mangage, to delete signal from out of MSEQ (same with BX) with inverted and sampledelayed original signal.
So it's not the same signal coming out just splitting and again adding the mid and side.

Could anybody send such a project which proves that in=out when just splitting and joining side and mid in MSEQ or BX?

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-05-20 06:24 ]

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat May 20, 2006 5:05 am

eV - my point is that you have exactly copied the look and feel of the SSL channel strip and bus compressor. Have a look at the Waves and SSL's own Duende plugins sometime!

Remember that Mackie and Roland both sued Behringer for this type of behaviour. I've also seen a small developer of a VST 303 clone threatened by Roland because his interface was photographically similar.

digitalaudiosoft · Post by **digitalaudiosoft** » Sat May 20, 2006 5:24 am

mccyrano made test ,i m happy for that.

i 'm right ,it's the only things important
here.

mseq works fine that's all !

ev

bonne journée...

_________________

http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com

[ This Message was edited by: digitalaudiosoft on 2006-05-20 07:12 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat May 20, 2006 5:32 am

On 2006-05-20 05:29, digitalaudiosoft wrote:
...
c'est une blague !
...
now,you make tired , if you don't understand what is bx or mseq ,return to school please.
...
don't play this style of games with me!
...

now I understand the pic posted without comment adressed to me and a few others.
forget my 'good to have you back among the 3rd parties' post - brag on - you're so good that you won't need my cash anyway.

At least 4 different persons have messed your mseq with the bx visually(!), most likely due to that matchbox-sized pic on your web page.

Even before my post (in this thread) Shroomz and a few others mentioned some stunning visual similiarities between your products and Waves/SSL ones.

It's no problem to write '...they look good that way', '... my favourite console', it's not even a problem to take advantage from a certain hype - let alone compete with Waves etc.

But it IS a problem on such a limited market like SFP, if products interfere - most of that could have been avoided by a slightly different coloring, a more detailed picture and preferably a hint about the differences to the BX.

M/S wasn't a topic here (even though it existed) until the Brainworx product - that is a matter of fact and can be counted by posts and even devices re-discovered or modified in the last couple of month.

I will not consider you as naive that you didn't kow what you placed on the screen...

cheers, Tom

(you may spare an answer as your 'last post announcements' make it read almost like an execution)
...not sure if I'll buy 'un fromage' from the Normandie or the Chartreuse today...
I'm not francophobe

ps I've had this on the screen for a while so I didn't read the post above

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-05-20 06:38 ]