The sound demos are up!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri May 14, 2004 7:29 am

spot on hubird! LOL.

Dunno the record y'all are talking about really.. I've always wanted to do a thunder emulation, even back in the days of my nord mod days. I actually did try a couple of times without any serious results. (one of them turned out to sound like a camp fire) Wasn't untill with mod III that I found out how to achieve better results, and also started to think of ways to automatically generate a whole sound scene. I think one of the more interesting concepts behind the thunder patch is how it confines random values to certain ranges with bias, and also uses random triggering with controlled likelihood of happening. (the whole statistic bit)

Anyhow, great demos everyone.. CW should list the handles for all the contestants (if they have any) so that we can know who the "really" are. lol

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Fri May 14, 2004 8:54 am

[ This Message was edited by: spirit on 2004-06-05 23:24 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:32 am

On 2004-05-14 08:29, kensuguro wrote:
spot on hubird! LOL.

Dunno the record y'all are talking about really.. I've always wanted to do a thunder emulation, even back in the days of my nord mod days. ...

I stumbled across the W.Carlos LP in the record store some time ago, and of course listened as usual when old Moog stuff is in fairly good condition

The stunning thing for me is that you captured exactly the same atmosphere in your patch - and since the 'old' one his highly respected in it's domain, the same applies to your patch

Congrats

cheers, Tom

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:16 am

I CANNOT BELIEVE!!!!!
i am between the winners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:56 pm

Mine are the Pro One and Prodyssey demos

same, prodissey especially...

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-06-05 23:17 ]

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:03 am

I have just relistened to the demo's that won the demo-contest and they all deserve to be there..... but, I sit back and wonder, who are Creamware trying to sell their products to? Sounds to me like they think their main target group are musicians who long back for the lost 70's and 80's and that electionic music = trance.

Please CW take a look at all the interesting new electronic genres and analyze their needs instead, because this is where you'll find the sounds of the future, and therefore also your potential future customers.

If you are not showing what CW and the Scope platform can do for these people, how are you ever going to reach this group of electronic musicians?

Thomas

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2004-06-15 12:04 ]

ChrisWerner · Post by **ChrisWerner** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:46 am

Agreed, most developers try to re-invent or emulate the old stuff. Where are the new things, ideas and visions?
I do music and use hard and software products since 1984, oh man 20 years.
The last big vision in music instruments were the Hartmann Neuron, from my view.
<img src="http://www.sequencer.de/pix/neuron/neuron.jpg"></img>

Anyway, I hope cw will find the strength back to build new benchmarks in electronic music.
Noah was a good step, but I want new ideas in instruments, not new/old instruments. But you know I am addicted to the new.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:20 pm

@petal: you should do some demos of these new genres...

@emulations....
Emulations come with an instant market attached which I think is what makes them appealing. They also mean that no one has to come up with a full new specification of what should be included.

It is mirrored to a very minor way even in discussiont hreads. It's pretty easy to say "I think CWA should emulate X synth or Y synth"

But it would be much harder for many of us to agree on what a new synth might include.

Perhaps we should try ? Start a new thread about "CWA's next synth" and see what everyone wants (and if any two people can agree !

)

petal · Post by **petal** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:31 pm

If I had the proper CW-tool I would http://www.adern.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=185

No actually I think that the platform as it is actually can do a lot of what is being done in these new genre's I just don't think that any of CW's demo's are reflecting this kind of use, which was the point I was trying to make. Unfortunately judging from the demo's old and new ones, CW doesn't seem to be interested in showing this for some reason..!?

But I'll take up your challange and try to make a few "modern" demo's.....

Thomas

Edit: the link

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2004-06-16 07:41 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:17 pm

Creamware trying to sell their products to? Sounds to me like they think their main target group are musicians who long back for the lost 70's and 80's and that electionic music = trance.

Something else that I thought was that since the demos tried to provide rather "dry" sounds from the synths, that's where the 70's and 80's -ish sound comes from. I mean, lots of the demos are mainly recorded "straight" from the synth, reflecting how lots of things were done back then.

petal · Post by **petal** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:52 am

I think that recording directly from the synth is honest and correct and I agree with this aproach. It's not the "sound" of the production that I'm after. I'm simply questioning the musical preferences that CW are choosing their demos from. Most of these demo's sounds like they were trying to sell their products to the generations that came before me. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, but I'm asking, where are the demoes that are going to light the "must have"-fire in that IDM-style musician or the Drill&Bass-style programmer fx?
Take for example the six-string, the only demoes I've heard of it has been jazz, classic, latin, blues and Rock&Roll - some of them more successful than others. Now I've been told that this new-style of synthesis can do very different and interesting sounding pads, but I've never heard the demo of these capabilities - Why not !? This approach reminds me of Moog-patches that were trying to sound like a cello or a piano, while these never were that synths strong forces. I understand that the six-string does come closer to the ideal of a string-instrument than the moog ever did, but those ideals are never going to sell the six-string to me, all the other stuff it can do beyond sounding like a "real" instrument might do.

Actually Richard Pree and Mattio Basi's demoes are looking in the direction I'm after, but they are not there yet. And Ken your demo I have already commented on, it's fantastic and CW need more of that kind.

My point is simple, I need to hear the synth and tools they are trying to sell me, in a musical context that I'm familiar with which happens to be modern electronic music far from the "different" incarnations of eurotrance. And I'm damn sure that I'm not the only one.

Thomas
Thomas

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:29 am

My point is simple, I need to hear the synth and tools they are trying to sell me, in a musical context that I'm familiar with which happens to be modern electronic music far from the "different" incarnations of eurotrance. And I'm damn sure that I'm not the only one.

Quite a valid point, now I see. Personally, I think CW can use a couple of demos that can almost go directly to CD and hit the charts. Not necessarily meaning "pop" material, but something that the mass youngsters, "to be" musicians can relate to. (being one of them myself)

Which brings up a question.. does CW still accept demos? (without the prize, of course) I've been meaning to make some more demos, but don't have the time right now.. but I wonder if someday I should.

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:58 am

i'm definitely with you, thomas! though i'm somewhat pessimistic as far as your quest concerns.

a. the demos: look at how most of the top idm producers work... (Ae, speedy j,...) starting off with some synth, run it through this vst, edit it in that app, resample, layer,...
that's how i get my most interesting sounds as well. so it would be a demo with not just one CW device, and will probably feature other, non CW stuff performing a lead role.
ken's suggestion would be cool. demos out of contest, but using as much CW gear as desired (third party dev as well), and editing/sequencing tricks allowed.

b. the gear: more and more, i see people doing idm music buying into a laptop and max/msp. it's cool (hyped), works great, is very portable, and could be quite cheap compared to a CW rig.

apart from a selected bunch of vst fx, i use nothing else than Scope, so i'm happy.

petal · Post by **petal** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:16 am

True idm producers work that way and so do I to some extend, so maybe IDM wasn't such good example, I was simply trying to give specific pointers to what kind of music I was referring to. Still, not all IDM is made in this collage-like manner, and draws on pure synthisized sounds, it's more the approach to the composing that's interesting, but not shown in any of CW's demoes.

On 2004-06-16 09:58, borg wrote:
b. the gear: more and more, i see people doing idm music buying into a laptop and max/msp. it's cool (hyped), works great, is very portable, and could be quite cheap compared to a CW rig.

I recently bought max/msp myself, and one of the main reasons was because of the great sample-manipulation posibilities in max.
Still I believe that cw has a chance to get a slice of the pie, if they understand what the producers need and develop the right modular-tools to achieve these techniques. Actually not much is needed, just a sample-player-module with adjustable start/ending points, loop-capabilities and speed/direction-control (check the link above) and then the modular can do a lot of the things I like about max/msp.

Thomas

edit: the resurrection of my IDM argument

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2004-06-16 12:44 ]

scary808 · Post by **scary808** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:27 pm

I too crave more bizzare sample mangling! Check out my device wish:

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=30&0

Those reaktor patches that do this love to crash computers so a working CW device that could pull it off would be great. I've been debating MAX as well. I'll probably just wait until I get an Apple to get it though.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:25 am

momentary OT:

not to steer away from the topic, but there is a windows version of max/msp now.. If I remember correctly, they've got a second revision out which is quite stable and more than workable. (jitter for windows still needs work) So, you may not have to wait for a mac to use max/msp.

Also, I remember reading that mac and win max/msp is compatible if you don't use platform specific blocks.

scary808 · Post by **scary808** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:19 pm

Thanks for the heads-up Ken, but I'm probably buying an Apple anyway. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the weaknesses Emagic never overcame with Logic. I'm a bit reluctant to invest in "ported" software after that. If Soundforge ever
came out for the Mac, I would be even more reluctant.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:35 am

ok so the sound demos have been up for some time now, but why has CWA still not modified their website to actually have them show up on the pages of the instruments themselves?!
They even seem to have taken down all the other sound demos they ever had.

Wasn't the purpose of the contest to make sure people who came to CWA's site could hear more and better sounddemo's? Come on CWA, this is a half-hour job for your webmaster!

And while the 15 chosen sounddemo's are cool, it's still not nearly enough since a lot of instruments aren't covered at all.

Maybe we here at PlanetZ should set up our own "demo database" instead, because sometimes I wonder if they'll ever get it right

[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2004-06-20 07:39 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:59 am

Petal:

The point of the demo is to appeal to the most people. Creamware is not at all concerned with innovation. That is why nearly all of their modules mimic ancient hardware rather than try to have an original interface and sound.

I need full screen list editors for the sts series samplers. I am serious about music and I could care less what it looks like. Creamware seems to be more interested in the physical look of the gui rather than the functionality of it.

[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2004-06-22 09:14 ]