Marketing SFP. Your suggestions!?

[Immanuel]

I suggest that turning 180¤ would be a good move for making marketing and use easier.

Creamware has always been a do-it-all thing (except sequenser, and arguably audio editor). This makes the product very complex. Complexity makes it hard for some dealers to realy grasp the concept. Therefor, I wote for full modularity.

Let there be:

A soundcard with drivers
One or two synth packages (no mixers - no effects - no modular synth)
An AE package (no synths - only mixers and effects (maybe effects and mixers apart))
An ME package (complext mixer with good routing options - scaleable from 1-8 channels. Also the mastering oriented effects: GraphEQ, PsyQ, Optimaster - I think Vinco should be in the AE package)
A Sampler package (nothing else)
A Modular package (nothing else)

Let people choose, what they want to use. And most important - free them from feeling too much complexity due to a lot of features, they do not realy need (but may spend time on anyway).

One person could have A great mastering environment
Another person could have A great synth machine
Another person could have A modular of their dreams
Another person could have A cool mixing environment (automation please)
Another person could have IT ALL

I realy think, the product would apeal more to the synth guy, if that is, what he gets - easy to use synths worth dying for. And all the other ways around too. Also nobody would feel, that they payed for stuff, they didn't need. And (hopefully) nobody would feel too intimidated by the environment, if they only need a few things. Maybe even advertise for this: "you get, what you pay for - top quality".

DO NOT take away features from existing users - not in ANY way (letting people use old unsupported version). You realy do not want ot deal with more users rage over this. It is very important, that people feel good about the company - that it is their friend. But make it a way for the future custommers.

Also, DO NOT release SDK/DP for free. Again, it would bring too much complexity to those, who do not want it. The dealer will HAVE TO know about it, and that will turn them off. Let the dealer know the basic things. Let him feel, that it is easy (packages may feel easyer to grasp, than the whole thing). And make it easy for him to say: "Oh yeah, and you can even buy the DP for 400€ (or something else). It is very complex though, and it is not supported (comes AS-IS), so I don't know much about it . You can do everything with it though - create your own synths and all. "

[Immanuel]

A lot of good suggestions have been put out about the web-page.

I too think you should start on a fresh - make people feel, new life has come (as opposed to the same old thing, that went down).

Also, they are completely right. People must be able to SEE the environment to understand its strengths - lots of CLEAR screen shots - or even better (interactive) flash tutorials.

I will add a cognitive psychological perspective: basic assumptions. People generalize from one feat to another. I will give an example talking from my own viewpoint. If I go to a (simple) webpage, and it is sluggish, slow or uneasy to navigate, then I wouldn't trust, that the company could make a neat, fast and easy userinterface for a complex software (unless I had a realy good reason to believe it anyway). Ofcoarse, I may be terribly wrong - and it may have to do with prioritizing, BUT basic assumptions are to a smaller or greater extend general human characteristics.


Keep PlanetZ 100% unindependent though. One reason for this strong comunity is (IMO), that it is independent. If you keep the official forum (as you said once: it does keep some of the negative vibes away from PlanetZ), then I suggest some rearanging:

1) Put general in the "members only area"(MO). A lot of bad vibes are spilled out in the general category, and when visitors come, they get an uneven weighted sum of opinions - in the negative direction.

2) considder putting "recording" in MO too. Too much "shooting before realy trying" is going on there. People externalize the problems towards SFP in a rather aggressive way - even, when the problem may be a limitation in, say, SX. Also this gives a bad first impression.

3) Considder putting the "devices" category in the public area (PA). Some good spirit may flow from there.

[astroman]

no doubt about redesign of Creamware's web-site - someone who is just curious about the products (a so-called potential customer) is almost shrieked away.

But I disagree on the 'complexity' topic of SFP, specially in it's original form without 'live-bar'.
In fact my first thought after installing Pulsar was: why didn't M$soft organize their Win-multimedia stuff the same way ?

The concept of routing and loading (preferred) modules in projects is a very clear and simple one.
This should be emphasized in the first place.

Complexity enters when OS drivers (installation specific stuff, mobo, interuptes, bandwidth) and application software get involved.

According to 'trouble depth' there could be some sections dealing with special topics, possibly ranking from troublefree to not working at all.

Imho the current representation is just the opposite.
Something doesn't work: it's the Pulsar, it's the driver, it's the SFP software, while a million of error options are around.

cheers, Tom

[hubird]

On 2004-02-01 09:22, at0mic wrote:
Or how about an SFP demo that works without the hardware? To see (and maybe even create) an SFP project, with its devices, IO, routing and modular could give a lot of people a good idea of what it's like to work with SFP. For sound demo's they can always listen to some mp3's...

that should be terrific!!
Top idea At0mic!

great ideas here about the webside, including the idea of flash tutorials.

Though it would be a nice recognition of quality for John and for us members of planetz if CWA would like to 'take over' planetz, I wouldn't support that idea.
It will be hard to keep trolling behaviour outdoor if the site is CW's.
However I can imagine (as is said already here) some 'official' linking from CWA's site to planetz, being clear planetz is totally independent.
CWA could take some responsibility in sharing or taking all costs John has to face (including time), and close down the CW forum, which indeed often is contraproductive from marketing point of view.
It's better to invest in a new CW website without CW forum than trying to keep up an own forum which never will be capable to beat planetz.


_________________
Let There Be Music!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-02-01 11:34 ]</font>

[King of Snake]

It would probably mean impossible amounts of coding though, and who really is going to demo something that doesn't really do anything? I mean, it only works because of the DSP's.

Also the training for dealers could be something to work on
for example the shop where I buy my CW stuff doesn't know much about it.
the thing they do know is that there were some money problems with CW and that's why they don't have any NOAH in stock !!!

Definitely communication with your dealers and distributors should be much much better. From that numerous messages on this forum I get the impression that the dealers are ready to believe all the rumours which can only mean they never get any direct contact with CW themselves. If you can't get the dealers to have faith in your product, you're not gonna get the customers either.

[spoimala]

The web site is mentioned many times already, but I'd like to emphasize regular updates! If a user comes in once a week and doesn't find anything new, he'll think company is dead.
One update per week is the very minimum! Let it be an interview, new mp3, new product... anything. But show some forms of life there!

Maybe organise some "product shows" in music stores? I'd be glad to make a presentation of SFP platform in my local store. And I think other people here would be too. Maybe give some plugs for free as a reward

[hubird]

On 2004-02-01 14:56, spoimala wrote:
Maybe organise some "product shows" in music stores? I'd be glad to make a presentation of SFP platform in my local store. And I think other people here would be too. Maybe give some plugs for free as a reward

brilliant idea
After a year you get stories in all music papers mentioning the doubled sellings of the new CWA gathered by it's own community, all over the world, for just a few hundreds of giveaways.
No expensive ads needed anymore

[scary808]

On 2004-02-01 14:56, spoimala wrote:

Maybe organise some "product shows" in music stores? I'd be glad to make a presentation of SFP platform in my local store. And I think other people here would be too. Maybe give some plugs for free as a reward

That's what CW tried with the CW enthusiasts promotion. I was set to do it except they wanted me to use my system. I didn't feel that it would be worth what they were offering me to move my computer all over the place. They need in store systems or have regional sales reps with systems provided by CW. The sales reps payment will be all of the hot new CW products. I would have done the CW enthusiast thing if they would have done this. Instead I was offered $50.00 in the online shop each time I lugged my PC across the state.



On another note, anybody see the Logic Control DVD. It's very good & I could see SFP benefiting from something like this. It had me sold until the whole apple thing (I don't have a mac yet). Perhaps after something like this is produced, prospective customers can either watch a slimmed down version on the "new" website or order a free full blown DVD from CW.

[doodyrh]

On 2004-02-01 09:32, Immanuel wrote:
Also, DO NOT release SDK/DP for free. Again, it would bring too much complexity to those, who do not want it. The dealer will HAVE TO know about it...

Frank said that the 'free' (widely distributed version) would not be supported. The dealer doesn't need to know more than that. The moment you charge a penny you lose a million potential developers.

On 2004-01-31 19:51, ernest@303.nu wrote:
Creamware should start by emphasizing... the environment...
There isn't even a single picture of an SFP project in any of their brochures or on their website!!!??!

Absolutely! It's a scandal.
It's all sooo PowerPoint...

• *Overview
  *Highlights
  *Basic Features

Yaaawwwnnnn! Is it coffee break time yet.
It's all square. No dynamism.
Gimme pictures. Moving GIFs if you don't like flash.
Show them what they're getting for their hard earned cash.

And I don't buy the "it's too complicated" argument.
Dammit, at least try to explain or is that all beneath them.

And people want an upgrade path that doesn't cost the earth. It's expensive enough to get started. People are scared they'll get hooked.

[doodyrh]

Talking about showing people what they're getting, let's see clearly which devices are included with each product.

Synths, effects, mixers. List them all on one page for the product. All clickable for in depth explanation. (Why not simply adapt the manual for this purpose?).

Shout FREE DEVICES!!!. Don't be shy
The package is a veritable cornucopia but potential buyers can't see it.

For instance, on the synths page the explanations are minimal and not clickable.

And drop the synth/mixer/effects package I/II. Too complicated. Just show what you get for each product and what the optional extras are.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: doodyrh on 2004-02-01 19:08 ]</font>

[soul-synthesis]

one thing about the web site that pisses me off is the support database. Let me set this in stone, it goes down in history as the worst ever!!!! extremely slow, hard to navigate and find info, confusing! eradicate the damn frames!

as i mentioned before, CWA's site needs faster pipes and a new design with more content.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: soul-synthesis on 2004-02-01 20:27 ]</font>

[bosone]

make VIDEO demos, realmedia ones, even with lo quality audio (and hi-quality mp3 for separate download). i have seen demos of several minutes with lo.fi audio that occupies just 2-3 MB.
in these videos explain (in SEVERAL LEANGUAGES, very important!!! english, german, french, italian, japanese) what you can do with SFP:
- play in realtime a pulsar synth
- process a VST synth with pulsar SFX
- process a VST synth with external FX
- process external gear with pulsar or external FX
- etc

the videos should not focus only to the routing window, but on the sequencer and on external instruments (synth, guitars, masterkwyboards), to all the music production process in a real studio.


distribute the video/demo CDs in the stores, instead of flyers. just by reading what is pulsar capable for does not mean that you will become aware of its great potentiality.


ah, and in one demo, show in realtime the one-to-one comparison between minimax and minimoog (or b2003/hammond) with CD-quality audio!!


do several hardware test and state clearly which is the best PC to work with pulsar, and explain clearly how to set on the board and the connection to the sequencer. there are a lot of people who run pulsar on the supermarket-bought-PC equipped with windows ME and then sell the product...
maybe arrange something with hardware producers.


the releasing of SDK, DP or so on would be a gigantic leap!


lower the software prices (well, i cannot avoid to write it! )

[Counterparts]

hubird wrote:

It's better to invest in a new CW website without CW forum than trying to keep up an own forum which never will be capable to beat planetz.

That's reminded me of a point I have been thinking about for a little while.

How do CW users find out about PlanetZ? Apparently, there's about 30,000 users out there (from CW Frank's post), but less than 10% of them are registered here.

I found it because of (IIRC) kimgr's post on the Creamware forum (not wishing to continue using the oh-so-slow forum there) "see you all on PlanetZ".

So I thought, "what's this Planet Z then?" and found out!

I think that the CW site could (and should) direct users here for "forum purposes".

As far as marketing goes, sex sells, doesn't it?

(I'm NOT the man to talk to about sales and marketing...I tend to agree with Bill Hicks on that one).

Royston

[wayne]

On 2004-02-02 05:09, Counterparts wrote:

(I'm NOT the man to talk to about sales and marketing...I tend to agree with Bill Hicks on that one).

i'm pretty much with Bill there, too

[menno]

No matter how "sexy" the marketing, I think you'll get a lot more buyers if the price is right.

Here in the UK Pulsar has been reviewed in quite a few magazines now, but walk into a shop and a Pulsar 2 costs about £250 more than in Germany.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: menno on 2004-02-02 07:18 ]</font>

[Counterparts]

menno wrote:

Here in the UK Pulsar has been reviewed in quite a few magazines now, but walk into a shop and a Pulsar 2 costs about £250 more than in Germany.

I wonder if UK companies are interested in ... well, any sales of anything really!

For my recent purchase (PulsarII Xmas M&M deal) I had to go to Thomann in Germany in the end. I contacted quite a few UK companies re: "are you supporting the Creamware Xmas special ofers?"

I didn't hear a thing from any of them - absolutely pathetic. In contrast, Thomann communicated quite well (they needed the occasional prod, however) and they got my money.

(See: "Xmas offers in the UK" in the purchasing forum)

Royston

[at0m]

menno wrote:
(...)
Here in the UK (...) a Pulsar 2 costs about £250 more than in Germany.

That's largely a matter of tax system. In the 80ies, the UK government deceided to make you pay tax in the shop to counter black work.

[braincell]

I think a lot of cards are bought on impulse which is why Creamware has to be available everywhere that the other high end cards are sold. Frank mentioned that it's difficult to talk to people like the guitar center but I think that's kind of a cop out. If Roland or Tascam or Yamaha bought Creamware, CW cards would be available everywhere and everyone would know about them. There also would be a lot of ads and more reviews in all music gear magazines and catalogs.

It's clearly not enough just to make a great product. You have to be good at pushing your stuff. My sense is that Frank is a fantastic, creative engineer but maybe not a visionary at business.

[King of Snake]

perhaps so, or at least he doesn't really know what to do with marketing his product. That's why I created this thread! (Frank, you're reading this aren't you? )
Of course the best way for CW to improve their marketing is hire someone who's good at marketing instead of trying to figure it all out themselves.

[Guest]

Hi,

Frank is correct about GC type of stores for many reasons,

1. staff are changed faster than you change your socks.

2. GC salesstaff (as an example only)use GC store as a simple stop into some other high paying jobs. Speaking to a salesman/CW user at a GC store oneday he said the longest time a sales person last is 3 months and that is a stretch. Also GC sales concentrate on selling less hardware (PC cards) and more on software plugins.

2. Dealers selling CW cards need to take the time to know the products in order to sell it and support their client in the simplest way possible.

3. If CW cards were simply a card and drivers (no software) and the cost ranges between $99 and 199 USD that would be no problem for a mega store to sell. but the fact remains that SFP is more complex software and require sales skills. I heard few years back (6 years ago) CW flew the few GC sales manager to CA for training on Pulsar (1.0) and for 3 days training non stop. CW thought they got themselves into the GC stores.
But few weeks later those trainee /manager moved on to other higher paying job and CW were the biggest losers in this regards.

What really need to be done is something like this FORUM. PlanetZ rocks. there are so much to learn here.

4. CW can of course update that dreadfull
website to make it easy to navigate.

5. Create Flash program that explain the Software is easy terms. and show a complete cicle from installation to running audio and midi. This way GC staff maybe willing to sell it by simply giving a CD to the customer and letting him take a quick run around the CW cards and software at home.

6. CW somehow come to an agreement with the planetZ to make it the Mecca of tech support and info. Of course you guys here simply ROCK. you welcome new user and take them by their hand and show them the way. This will let CW concentrate on the important stuff (dev/update selling etc.)


just a thought.