More Trouble: Access Virus for PowerCore Platform

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:05 pm

I always loved the consequence of Access in price finding :
'...it executes the same code as a Virus, it sounds alike - why should it cost less ? The plugin even offers an improved workflow...'

quoted from an interview featuring their Virus Protools plugin, which was indeed roughly the same price as the hardware minus the controller interface.

I actually have no problems with paying companies like Access or Creamware who offer a usable, finished (ok - anything can be improved...) product - opposed to those who never really want to get their stuff right as Apple or M$soft (for example - the list could be very, very long...).

The main argument for a software plugin is still '... but I'll get this or that for cheaper than...'
Only a minority honours innovation and quality - the rest could be called 'rippers' from their attitude or at best 'brand-aware'.

I don't have a problem with that, unless people refuse to be honest about their own intentions - not necessarily you, Kamurah

cheers, Tom

Joxer the Mighty · Post by **Joxer the Mighty** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:37 pm

$795 for the Pro Tools Virus plugin?! Holy smokes! You could almost buy a Nord G2 Engine for that much money.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:13 am

The reason the PT plug cost as it does is because its TDM and that stuff is just expensive

Now as far as the TC version goes, your not entirely truthfull the statement of ONE DSP load on the plug. It clearly states (1) DSP can load 4, yes 4 instances of the plug in at 16 voices, how many damn viruses do you need hehe, if 4 is not enough, what can I say, I plan to program and bounce anyways, I like to mix audio when everything is said and done, that way I can have a smooth running mix once it gets loaded up.

Im a bouncer I guess you could say

Cheers!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:34 am

On 2004-01-18 01:13, Basic Pitch wrote:
The reason the PT plug cost as it does is because its TDM and that stuff is just expensive

believe in brands...
BasicPitch, I didn't quote from a virtual interview - Mr. Kemper himself made that statement - and it wasn't intended as a joke or irony.
TDM wasn't even mentioned then.

...It clearly states (1) DSP can load 4, yes 4 instances of the plug in at 16 voices, how many damn viruses do you need hehe, if 4 is not enough, ...

They must have found the holy grail

That would mean that a MicroModular (or the bloody chip on my Lagoon) would be capable of running 4 full blown Virii

cheers, Tom

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:47 am

Correct me if I'm worng, but the way I'm interpreting the license is that you can load 4 instances using *UP TO* 16 voices. Not 4 instances using 16 voices each.

I believe the Virus-B hardware unit had one Motorola DSP for the main processing and it was originally 16 voice, so this pretty much makes sense.

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:59 pm

Virus A was 16 note poly, the B is 24 notes (I've got a kb here). The new OS update for the b-series is great, PureTuning actually did makea huge diff.

R-type · Post by **R-type** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:27 pm

Wow a powercore for $500 USD. That's cheap.

Even with the extra cost of the Virus plugin it's %30 cheaper than a PowerPulsar.

I've said this before, Creamware perhaps should drop the prices of the SRB cards so more people adopt the platform. The more DSPs they have out there the more people will be wanting to buy their software.

Anyway Creamware stuff is still the best for what I want to do but I think they should look at ways to get the platform out there. I mean the cards can't be that expensive to produce these days.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:56 pm

The Creamware cards are expensive. I paid thousands for hardware from them. I'm not buying much of the premium software these days because it's too expensive. They don't have to pay for distribution, packaging and manufacturing. They cut the middle man out, yet left the prices sky high. Why?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:13 pm

R&D, Braincell, that's what makes the Creamware boards expensive.
Seriously, almost all stuff running on the Powercore is re-used code already developed for some outboard gear.
Afaik there's no routing, mixing and the only interface is VSTI. It is an expensive card, if you see it this way...

cheers, Tom

ps: I'd really like to be able to upload that Virus DSP code to my 2nd hand elcheapo Adat interface ($35) - wanna be a ripper, too

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:27 pm

Don't forget that with the PowerCore - you still have to add a separate i/o audio card - which puts the price a bit higher. The Pulsar has the i/o built in.

By the way, how does the DSP power on the PowerCore compare overall to a Pulsar? Can you run a lot more plugins of roughly the same quality? If the PowerCore is much more powerful, then I can see the point about price of the cards.

Again, the price on the plugins are correct with the market - and even cheaper than a lot of others (software and DSP). The time (and cost) that goes into developing the quality of these plugins (and the SFP software overall) is what you are paying for - not the cost to manufacture and distribute them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: huffcw on 2004-01-18 18:30 ]</font>

R-type · Post by **R-type** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:29 pm

I just think Creamware platform would look so much more attractive if people could get a lot of DSPs with their initial outlay then they buy software when they can afford it.

The Powercore can (apparently) run 1 Virus synth with 16 voices plus the card has 60-70% of it's power left.

I don't think Creamware can sit back, either they can afford to compete with the Powercore in price/performance or they trully will disappear.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:57 pm

I don't think there is an issue here.

Can PowerCore run MiniMax, Solaris, and ModIII? No.

Case closed.

Shayne

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:54 am

On 2004-01-18 21:57, Shayne White wrote:
I don't think there is an issue here.

Can PowerCore run MiniMax, Solaris, and ModIII? No.

Case closed.

Shayne

Listen, I'm as big of a Creamware fanboy as you'll find, but I'm not ignorant to think there aren't any other cool DSP platforms out there!

My UAD-1 plays *very* nicely with and along side my Pulsar II. Hopefully this year (money permitting) I'll add more Creamware DSP and a Powercore.

Both UAD and TC have a lot to offer in this arena too. Needless to say, Creamware is always going to be dominant on the synth side of things.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sinix on 2004-01-19 03:55 ]</font>

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:54 am

Competition is good. Let's see CW make an effort to compete.

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:57 am

hi

is the verb in pwercore or uad better

than this http://www.relab.dk?

ale

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:14 pm

Thats what I meant (4) instances giving you 16 voices.

And to the question about the verbs, well I have both the UAD and the Powercore and the new dreamverb for UAD is VERY nice sounding with percussion, and the TC verb is up there with the ranks of lexicon verbs, it is said to be one the best sounding verbs had VST speaking.

I could not live with out either of these cards at this point in time, they both sound great, and if bang for your buck is what your after the UAD is a steal, The TC card was never as much of a value but if you could afford it, it was a dream to have, now with the DSP Virus coming, I am guessing TC is about to blow up and the FW and PCI Cards will be huge sellers.

Cheers!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:18 pm

tnx a lot

at the risk of making myself a fool I now guess that a Virus is a pretty simple synth with an excellent filter

well, that's the most important part of a 'classic' synth, isn't it ?
It is probably even a great synth, but hardly to imagine that it cannot be replaced by a well chosen set of SFP tools, as those constant '... but we need a Virus on SFP...' complaints may suggest.

cheers, Tom

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:07 pm

The Virus is a boring synth. I use the Powercore and like it, but man, making Virus emulations is not moving this technology forward. The people who drool over this stuff deserve to pay $800 for it.

By the way, I was at NAMM, and boy was there a shocking lack of innovative and forward-thinking products. Just shows IMHO that when people run after 'name-brand' synths and effects all the time, there is no progress made at all in the field.

peace

wavelength · Post by **wavelength** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:22 am

On 2004-01-19 23:07, dArKr3zIn wrote:
The Virus is a boring synth. I use the Powercore and like it, but man, making Virus emulations is not moving this technology forward. The people who drool over this stuff deserve to pay $800 for it.

By the way, I was at NAMM, and boy was there a shocking lack of innovative and forward-thinking products. Just shows IMHO that when people run after 'name-brand' synths and effects all the time, there is no progress made at all in the field.

peace

i kinda dig what Elektron is doing...

Post by **garyb** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:24 am

hear,hear.

and here: http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/ ...kinda innovative..(works great)