I'm sold! More questions...

[tlaskows]

I used to play geetar. Its a lot of fun!

Sorry im on my phone with autocorrect off

[SilverScoper]

I'm calling Troll on anyone playing on the STS beat-up - based on this :

Go to forum search : keyword STS and forum MUSIC

Well there's one hit for 2015 from NeilB, one for last year by Yish313' two by me and Ricardo 2014. Then you have to go back to 2009, 2008 etc etc. Apart from that I know Bud has a big STS collection.

So - where are all the STS music makers who now can't make music - or indeed ever used STS at all ?.

The STS Talk forum here has 332 topics. Only about 30 of them after 2008 ! IF that's representative of overall interest, I'd say use of STS dropped off way before anything to do with x64.

[Bud Weiser]

The STS Talk forum here has 332 topics. Only about 30 of them after 2008 ! IF that's representative of overall interest ...

It isn´t.
In forums, you won´t read much about working devices rarely showing an issue.
When a device is new, you read all the "welcome" and "thank you" mails praising the new device and after some time posts become rare until someone finds a bug or gets other problems operating the device.

So, STS worked in all the years we all were users of 32Bit systems.

But wait,- new marketing strategy ...
Every device w/ less than 500 topics @PlanetZ (later SCOPEusers) and equivalent 1000 likes on Facebook will be removed from the software package coming w/ XITE boxes.
This will free Holger tons of time when finishing SCOPE 6 !

And you eventually get ZARG Solaris v5 bundled and be happy w/ 2-3 voices, which for today´s music and playing skills is often overkill anyway ...



Bud

[zerocrossing]

Oh, and I just wonder what kind of DSPs Roland uses for their new toys... I mean come on, 4 voice poly? You can't even play a proper chord with that. I like to play an octave on the lower register and a chord on the top. According to my calculations, it takes about 6 old 66MHz Sharcs to have 6 voices in the Minimax. That's a really really old chip! The newer 333MHz Sharc in the plugiator can do up to 12 voices! In a unit that sells for 400$ USD new and looks like a toy, they should be able to put in a 20$ DSP there... sorry, off topic again. You can call me "Tom that gets sidetracked easily".

-Tom

Oh, I've long stopped even paying attention to Roland. Someone on a forum once said, "Everything cool Roland has ever produced was done by accident while trying to make lame things for light jazz players." Now it seems as though they're mining their brand to death for some extra cash.

[tlaskows]

I call Roland joke for short and make them do my technical support...

Wait, I don't have anything that Roland makes

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

well, it's easy to say what you say, but in reality, things aren't that easy.

also, yes, it's damned impossible to really communicate WHAT Scope is, let alone how many synths you can use. Scope is much more than synths, it just happens to be the some of the BEST synths available in the computer world. it's also THE BEST mixing platform in the computer audio world. it's also a bridge between the real world and the virtual world, the only one of it's kind, really. well, SC has always been underfunded, so the money was spent developing a killer product that won't go out of style instead of commercials. it really is a one or the other, at this time. this is not the potential user's problem, however, it's SC's problem. it's not just because SC is a bunch of idiots who don't care.

even worse, the market is run on pirated vsts. computer hobbyists can't understand why they have to actually spend money. audio and production hobbyists would always expect to pay money, much more than Scope costs. when i was first putting my studio together 30 years ago, three or four thousand dollars was chicken feed.

Actually, I totally disagree with you about it being "damned near impossible to really communicate what Scope is." You people here have done a pretty good job. If I were King of Sonic Core, here's what I'd do.

First of all, on the main page at Sonic Core there would be a SoundCloud player with all their tracks. Currently, I don't even think they link to it! Here's what's currently there:

http://sonic-core.net/joomla.soniccore/ ... hp?lang=us

A lame graphic and a quote. I have no idea who that guy is and the XITE-1 is very unexciting to look at and the rest of the graphics are about as exciting as looking at thumbnails of VSTi screenshots.

Yes, Scope is sprawling, so don't show the sprawl. Show the "hot spots." Get people excited about the software emulations. Mention that it's a DSP platform, but focus on the software. DSP chips are about as exciting as a door knob. Show me what's in the room behind the door.

There should be a banner that's a slide show of the top 10 instrument and effects plug ins.

Most importantly, there should be a link to a youtube channel with professionally made demos showing off some of what an be done. As it is now, you search around and find a whole lot of home made demos... some of which are not very well done. Even some of the good ones have a lot of dead air where you see someone mousing around. These should not be tutorials, but more like commercials.

Anyway, sure, none of what I mentioned would give a total picture of what the Scope platform is, but they'd be a great start and incite people to dig deeper. As it is now, it seems like Sonic Core isn't even trying to sell these things.

[tlaskows]

That's the problem. No one knows what Scope is, because you can't play around with it at your local music store...

And I don't think S|C checks their emails. I sent them a very simple question 3 days ago, it did not bounce, so it's somewhere in their mailbox. Basically what I need is the magic dongle that no one knows it exists or doesn't want to talk about it. I will even pay them to ship it and for the cost of the dongle. I want to write some DSP code just for fun. DSP dev boards are expensive, and I already have Scope...

-Tom

[garyb]

about the dongle, that won't come easy. you need to communicate with Holger directly. what email did you use? i see ALL emails except Holger's personal emails and i haven't seen your inquiry. Holger can be slow to respond, but if you knew his workload, that wouldn't surprise you.

those dongles are not common or in a bin of hundreds. they are freaking precious. if you establish a good relationship with Holger and have a good plan, you can get one.

[garyb]

two of the guys giving quotes are my personal clients. Tom Keane's father started Delphi Music. check their discography on wiki. Tom himself has written and produced for some of the biggest stars in the music industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keane_Brothers
William Goldstein is a voting member of the Motion Picture Academy. he did the music for Fame(television and movie) and many other TV shows and movies. he is the first person to make a TV show soundtrack completely in a computer.
http://www.williamgoldstein.com/

[tlaskows]

about the dongle, that won't come easy. you need to communicate with Holger directly. what email did you use? i see ALL emails except Holger's personal emails and i haven't seen your inquiry. Holger can be slow to respond, but if you knew his workload, that wouldn't surprise you.

those dongles are not common or in a bin of hundreds. they are freaking precious. if you establish a good relationship with Holger and have a good plan, you can get one.

Yes, Gary. I realize those are precious. I can wait. I am just playing with the SDK right now, and it's not making any sound. The manual is 11 years old, is it still applicable? Please PM me the right contact, I am interested in the precious dongle. I think the email was sent to developer@sonic-somthing. I will be working on a website that will hopefully help some other people along as I learn. www.scopesdk.com. Nothing there yet. Only spent about 1 hour working on it. Running on my cloud server that hosts another 4 servers. I hooked up an oscillator to P-Plate analog out, but there's no sound. Yes, I did read the quick start guide. How does the SDK know which plate it on which card? I have 3 different plates. The manual need to be updated. But like I said, I will be posting my experiences on the site as I get things working I'm also in contact with the ScopeSync guys to see if I am of any use to that project. I haven't pulled the code yet and compiled it yet.

Sorry, way off topic.

I realize this is not part of the job you signed up for, but any help will be really welcome.

I'm gonna have an interview with some random company that you can't even find on Google. How can a company that's almost 5000 poeople big not be found? Their website is useless. All I know that they make amplifiers (high end, consumer, and car audio), speakers and need some firmware/DSP person. Also some mention about hi-end studio monitors, but in the same sentence it says something about optical compression? I don't think studio speakers are supposed to have any kind of compression in them. Well, I have Scope, so why pay over 1000$ for a dev board with 1 DSP and one in/out that can't even do 1% of what good old Scope does! Oh yeah, and the compiler would cost a fortune.

Thanks,

-Tom

[garyb]

write to support and i'll forward it.

there really is no manual. it's do-it-yourself.

[tlaskows]

Thanks Gary! That's exactly why I'm starting this website. It won't cost me anything to host it. And I love learning new stuff! I used to work some crappy and boring jobs like fixing other's code (it made be write really ugly code). Hardware that was designed before thinking of how the software is gonna work with it. It was a mess. I won't name any companies, but most of them were a disaster :/ And at the big companies I did nothing all day so I read books and kept falling asleep at the computer while sitting in the chair. Ahahaha, no joke.

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

I just want to state for the record that I've never cared a bit about the sampler short comings, though I wouldn't mind one. I reacted badly to false information about wavetable synths not working in 64 bit operating systems. I don't mean to be a "nail in the coffin, " in fact, I hope the opposite. I'm very active on other forums and I hope to spread interest about the platform by posting examples and advice.

[dante]

That's the problem. No one knows what Scope is, because you can't play around with it at your local music store...

Funny, in one respect that's correct - its not in the stores in Australia and hasn't been for some time. But the whole reason I bought Scope in the first place is because it WAS setup in a shop, and I played with it, or rather the salesman did as I watched in awe. But I doubt these days I could even get a demo of UAD cards - although I know they are sold but mostly you would have to order them, DSP of any kind are not stock items these days downunder. I would hope it would be different in other countries.

Basically what I need is the magic dongle that no one knows it exists or doesn't want to talk about it. I will even pay them to ship it and for the cost of the dongle. I want to write some DSP code just for fun.

I doubt you'd get a dongle just for fun. Would need to be to develop devices commercially Id imagine, or some co-project with S|C.

I'm very active on other forums and I hope to spread interest about the platform by posting examples and advice.

Good move.

[zerocrossing]

That's the problem. No one knows what Scope is, because you can't play around with it at your local music store...

Funny, in one respect that's correct - its not in the stores in Australia and hasn't been for some time. But the whole reason I bought Scope in the first place is because it WAS setup in a shop, and I played with it, or rather the salesman did as I watched in awe. But I doubt these days I could even get a demo of UAD cards - although I know they are sold but mostly you would have to order them, DSP of any kind are not stock items these days downunder. I would hope it would be different in other countries.

There are two retailers in the US that show it on their site, but do not stock it. While I don't think the XITE-1 belongs in big-box music stores like Guitar Center, pro and boutique shops like Sweetwater and Robotspeak should have them on their sales floor for sure.

Sure, the warez kiddies aren't going to start scalping their Skrillex tickets to save up for one, but I bet there are a lot of people like myself who would have owned one years ago if they had known more about it. I personally posted thoughts like, "I don't care about a physical UI if the sound quality is great. It could be a black box for all I care," on gear obsession forums and I don't think I ever got a single, "look into Sonic Core," as a response. That seems really bad to me.

[Sounddesigner]

on gear obsession forums and I don't think I ever got a single, "look into Sonic Core," as a response. That seems really bad to me.

Forums aren't the best place sometimes for gear info. If you did hear a "look into Sonic Core" from one person then three others would immediately troll with exaggerations, lies, etc. Some trolls have not ever used the platform but still hate on it cause there are some 'extreme Native Fanboys' and shills that are paid by other companies on many forums, wich you will eventually see for yourself what I mean. Many hate dsp platforms cause DSP's have dominated so much in past times and to an extent presently and they are expensive, exclusive, and often truly have advantages you can point to and put a finger on where hyped-up VST's don't. Some feel if you troll every threat out of existance then all things will be Native-only and dirt cheap/free/pirated, but this is a fallacy since the better developers have no interest in going Native either way or when some do they don't truly put their best algorithms on that platform just "gotchas/April-fools".


SCOPE is'nt easy to advertise cause in order to tell people what it does it would take too many pages of writing. SCOPE is not a simple platform to sum up in a couple paragraphs. SCOPE has hundreds of devices and immense functionality, thus it's suitable for many tasks/fields. I've seen this problem first-hand when i try to explain SCOPE, you're always forced to leave much out the explaination. Give it a try when you get your XITE-1, i'm sure you'll love it and when you go to explain it to others you'll see what i mean. It's hard to know even where to start sometimes. Other gear is usually simpler and often single-purpose-oriented so advertisement and word-of-mouth is easier. SCOPE's complete nature is its strenghth but also its weakness cause its hard to describe what it is and because the platform is so sophisticated development can be slow.


EDIT: Despite all the problems I mentioned word-of-mouth still is important, i agree, it's just not as easy as you may think.

[garyb]

by the way, about the wavetable synths....

Lightwave and Vectron work, but wave oscs in Solaris do not. this is the source of the confusion.

[tlaskows]

Are you sure Vetron works? Every time I tried to load it, it crashes the whole Scope app on PCI cards

Let me try loading it one last time.

I think I have the SDK open right now.

Anyways, thanks Gary. Heard from the 'right' guy a couple hours ago. For now I'll just start learning the SDK without any custom modules.

Oh, and by fun I meant it's gonna be just for fun because I'll be learning so the first few devices will definitely be free. I don't know how long it will take to create actual useful devices that people would be interested in. Sure, I can add a separate LFO and aftertouch to the Minimax and maybe a real envelope generator. But anyone could do that! Well, if they have the SDK.

-Tom

[tlaskows]

Ok, confirmed. Vectron does load fine! But I haven't changed anything, still using the same default project that has all my basic hardware connected. I swear it crashed last two times. I wish I took a picture Some cool sounds and uses very little DSP, make a girl happy

Now back to the SDK to try to make it make a noise. Where did the oscilloscope go? I can't find it anywhere. Let me look at the manual again...

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

on gear obsession forums and I don't think I ever got a single, "look into Sonic Core," as a response. That seems really bad to me.

Forums aren't the best place sometimes for gear info. If you did hear a "look into Sonic Core" from one person then three others would immediately troll with exaggerations, lies, etc. Some trolls have not ever used the platform but still hate on it cause there are some 'extreme Native Fanboys' and shills that are paid by other companies on many forums, wich you will eventually see for yourself what I mean. Many hate dsp platforms cause DSP's have dominated so much in past times and to an extent presently and they are expensive, exclusive, and often truly have advantages you can point to and put a finger on where hyped-up VST's don't. Some feel if you troll every threat out of existance then all things will be Native-only and dirt cheap/free/pirated, but this is a fallacy since the better developers have no interest in going Native either way or when some do they don't truly put their best algorithms on that platform just "gotchas/April-fools".


SCOPE is'nt easy to advertise cause in order to tell people what it does it would take too many pages of writing. SCOPE is not a simple platform to sum up in a couple paragraphs. SCOPE has hundreds of devices and immense functionality, thus it's suitable for many tasks/fields. I've seen this problem first-hand when i try to explain SCOPE, you're always forced to leave much out the explaination. Give it a try when you get your XITE-1, i'm sure you'll love it and when you go to explain it to others you'll see what i mean. It's hard to know even where to start sometimes. Other gear is usually simpler and often single-purpose-oriented so advertisement and word-of-mouth is easier. SCOPE's complete nature is its strenghth but also its weakness cause its hard to describe what it is and because the platform is so sophisticated development can be slow.


EDIT: Despite all the problems I mentioned word-of-mouth still is important, i agree, it's just not as easy as you may think.

Sure, forums can be all those things but if you spend a little time on the decent ones you'll soon be able to figure out the trolls from the thoughtful posters. I started threads on KVR and Gearslutz and there was almost no trolling and very little criticism of Sonic Core. But sure, forums aren't the best at times. I was almost turned away by a single sentence that claimed that wavetable synths would not work if one was using a 64 bit OS. It was probably more of a language thing. The poster probably meant to say, "wave oscillators" instead of "wavetables." But, I don't blame the forum, I blame Sonic Core for not being more transparent about what doesn't work in 64 bit operating systems. Hell, I'll go a step further and say that there really shouldn't be anything written for the Scope platform that doesn't work in 64 bit operating systems, but that's another story.

As for describing Scope, that is silly. Apple doesn't describe OSX. It shows you the cool apps that run on it. Here is the way Sonic Core currently markets itself:

Hey fish! Please try to consume this bait. It's actually attached to a nylon line by a little sharp metal hook. You'll get pulled up by a being that's on the top of the food chain! They're really cool! Imagine apes but with all sorts of cool machines and stuff. Don't know what a machine is? Well, click on this link. Anyway, they're going to eat you. You understand eating, right? Of course! Yeah, well then enzymes in their digestive tract are going to break you down. Some of you will end up becoming more of them, the rest gets pooped out. Yeah, I know, that sounds kind of bad, but there's an upside. You know those mosquito larva you love to eat? Well their parents snack on those apes! So more apes, more mosquito larva to eat! And their poop gets eaten by flies, and you know how tasty they can be. So, by trying to eat that bait, you're actually ensuring that future generations of your species will thrive! Bon Appetit!

Here's the way they should market themselves:

Hey fish! WORMS! And flies! The most delicious worms and flies! All kinds!