Epic Total Meltdown of my 3 card Scope System

[BRG]

System: Dual Boot W7 32 bit W10 64 bit OS, Gigabyte EP35 DS3R MB, 3GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 Mb DDR2 800MHz, Pulsar I, Pulsar II, Power Pulsar w/Z-link, A16 Ultra, Focusrite OctoPre MII, Reaper DAW. (One Pulsar II card died 2 years ago and was replaced. Nice, quiet (Noctura 120mm fan in PSU), stable system for decades until…

A few weeks ago I started seeing all my A16 Plus meters fluctuating wildly on start up. I thought “Ok, caps dying out”. They settled down after a few minutes but erratically several would bump into the red, making recording impossible. Ok, I won’t mutitrack for now. Then, my previously reliable PC intermittently stopped powering on occasionally, this after replacing the batteries in my APC UPS. Then no power up at all. I replaced the 400W PSU with a Corsair RM750x. Upon firing up for the first time, ASIO channels 1/2 (the only ones connected) on a sparsely populated Startup project were fluctuating half way up the meters with a high pitched distortion emanating from an unknown source. Audio SPL output on a stereo track was cut in half or more. Any attempt to raise volume resulted in a harsh distortion and clipping into the red. Great!? 16 track projects wouldn’t even allow any playback. Did my card(s) die from the new PSU? Did the PCI slots suddenly all begin failing? Did only one card die, disabling everything?

I first removed the Power Pulsar and the Pulsar I (No activation key for the Pulsar I), same and possibly worsening results. Then just the Power Pulsar with worsening results of lower volume output. I changed slot positions, reinstalled the Pulsar II and now there’s meter read but zero output, with all hardware outputs ghosted in the menu. I removed and reinstalled Scope 7 on my 64 bit system. Same results.

Now I’m trying to find an old PC or revive my older dead one (another bad PSU) so I can hopefully test my cards and get an accurate diagnosis. I know correlation is not always causation but damn, I’ve been in computer hell for weeks. I think my fancy new Corsair PSU may have taken out my PCI slots. I only have till Nov 7 to return the PSU.

In a perfect world, a new M4 Mac Studio Thunderbolt 5 compatible XITE-2 would soon be made available. I recently saw a friend’s full blown UAD DAW running a complete sample and plugin array on that new Mac with Logic Pro that was blinding fast with no discernible CPU drain.

The reality is, I must revive Scope because there are things I’m so used to doing that can’t be done elsewhere without great expense and I’m on a restricted budget.

Steve T

[Bud Weiser]

System: Dual Boot W7 32 bit W10 64 bit OS, Gigabyte EP35 DS3R MB, 3GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 Mb DDR2 800MHz,..

Almost the same for SCOPE PCI here,- Win 7 Pro SP1 32Bit, Core2Duo 3GHz, 4GB DDR2,- 2 Pulsar 2, 1 SCOPE Pro,- in a HP server.
Runs fine !

Pulsar I, Pulsar II, Power Pulsar w/Z-link, A16 Ultra, Focusrite OctoPre MII, Reaper DAW. (One Pulsar II card died 2 years ago and was replaced. Nice, quiet (Noctura 120mm fan in PSU), stable system for decades until…

I´ve read all the below and there´s no chance to investigate your issues quickly.
Scope cards should be tested w/ another working computer offering native PCI slots matching Scope card´s power requirements.
A16U should be tested w/ a working Scope PCI system.
How to realize ion your end, I dunno.

In a perfect world, a new M4 Mac Studio Thunderbolt 5 compatible XITE-2 would soon be made available.

You can dream and this (Scope Mac compatibility) will never happen again.
There´s simply not enough manpower for development.

When your cards aren´t damaged, buy a HPxw4600 for ~80bucks, install Win 7 Pro SP1 32Bit and download drivers here:
https://support.hp.com/de-de/drivers/hp ... el/3429270

Use it as a slave PC for your (upcoming) modern DAW rig,- PC or Mac.
On the modern DAW build, you´d need a USB-C (or Thunderbolt) audio interface w/ 5-pin DIN MIDI and ADAT I/O ports.



Bud

[nebelfuerst]

Some recommendations:
*Don't use an UPS while hunting bugs. Depending on model, an UPS in online mode can also cause pc to crash.
*Don't use the A16, try with onboard ADDA of the pulsars first.
*Try the masterverb-test for some time. Does the pc crash ?
*Try to test in an other mainboard.

My guess:
A PSU cannot kill pulsars, as they have onboard voltage regulators. Other parts don't have, so other parts die first.
PCIbus failure will affect all slots. In my case, this also resulted in sporadic problems starting scope at all.
Your A16 should be connected by zlink, as Adat is pretty picky about good cables.
Good luck

[BRG]

[
I´ve read all the below and there´s no chance to investigate your issues quickly.
Scope cards should be tested w/ another working computer offering native PCI slots matching Scope card´s power requirements.
A16U should be tested w/ a working Scope PCI system.
How to realize ion your end, I dunno.

When your cards aren´t damaged, buy a HPxw4600 for ~80bucks, install Win 7 Pro SP1 32Bit and download drivers here:
https://support.hp.com/de-de/drivers/hp ... el/3429270

Use it as a slave PC for your (upcoming) modern DAW rig,- PC or Mac.
On the modern DAW build, you´d need a USB-C (or Thunderbolt) audio interface w/ 5-pin DIN MIDI and ADAT I/O ports.



Bud

Thanks for all your input! I am trying to revive my even older PC that ran fine to test the cards. Hope to have that accomplished by tomorrow. I'm also on the hunt for the correct interface for my recently gifted M4 Mac Studio. I'm leaning toward a Universal Audio Apollo x8p Gen 2 if my A16 Ultra is toast. Spendy but my "benefactor" said put in on the wishlist and see if it flies. He likes my guitar playing.

[BRG]

Some recommendations:
*Don't use an UPS while hunting bugs. Depending on model, an UPS in online mode can also cause pc to crash.
*Don't use the A16, try with onboard ADDA of the pulsars first.
*Try the masterverb-test for some time. Does the pc crash ?
*Try to test in an other mainboard.

My guess:
A PSU cannot kill pulsars, as they have onboard voltage regulators. Other parts don't have, so other parts die first.
PCIbus failure will affect all slots. In my case, this also resulted in sporadic problems starting scope at all.
Your A16 should be connected by zlink, as Adat is pretty picky about good cables.
Good luck

UPS: I wasn't aware of that possibility. It's odd this all occurred right after I put new batteries in the APC Back-Ups Pro 1000
A16 is offline while diagnosing, check
PC is not recognizing any Scope audio or MIDI outputs
Will try the Masterverb test after I determine which if any cards still function. I used to get ~10 IIRC
Testing on a different computer is my current quest

I've read sometimes a PSU can kill PCI slots
A16 when connected is via Z-Link
Luck? Yes much needed. I'm going to be very dismayed if my card(s) are fried!

Thanks for your suggestions.

[garyb]

dual boot?

if the project or Scope install is reading from the wrong drive, all kinds of mayhem will ensue.

[valis]

The PSU itself wouldn't kill PCI slots, but a power spike/surge or other event can compromise the motherboard and that can fry other components. I've had motherboards fail which took out the PSU (rather than the other way around) and this certainly killed components and peripherals (like the PCI cards) because the motherboard is responsible for regulating and distributing power.

[BRG]

dual boot?

if the project or Scope install is reading from the wrong drive, all kinds of mayhem will ensue.

Yes. Each OS is on a different physical SSD and the new install was performed with the other one disconnected. Stable as Mabel for years...until everything went haywire. I should have another computer up and running today to test my cards.

[BRG]

The PSU itself wouldn't kill PCI slots, but a power spike/surge or other event can compromise the motherboard and that can fry other components. I've had motherboards fail which took out the PSU (rather than the other way around) and this certainly killed components and peripherals (like the PCI cards) because the motherboard is responsible for regulating and distributing power.

AI response: "Yes, a new but faulty Power Supply Unit (PSU) can potentially damage or disable PCI buses or slots on your motherboard. This is a primary reason why it's crucial not to use cheap or unbranded PSUs".

I've tried my best to insure against power spikes. I'm triple protected with whole house surge protection on my electric panel, computer on Back=UPS Pro 1000 and racks on Isobar 8RM surge protected power strips. I certainly haven't ruled out a faulty MB but everything else on my computer still works except my Scope cards. Next step is to check my cards in a different system. If they work there I'll buy a PCI slot tester card. Perhaps as my old PSU failed, that caused the entire problem and not the new PSU.

[nebelfuerst]

No scope or midi inputs on the powerpulsar might point to the additional pcb on the back of the card. 6&15 DSP cards show up in scope without IO, if this pcb is missing or defective. On your pulsar1, you should have midi and audio.

For the PSU: Very cheap and very old PSU can only regulate a mixture of 12V and 5V, which will lead to one voltage climb too high, when there's excessive load on the other voltage. No PSU in the last 15 years does that.
Even if your PSU would have generated spikes, other cards like network or usb might die.
But audio cards always convert their own voltage to avoid noise. Also gfx cards convert voltages for other reasons.
So unless there wasn't smoke visible, I doubt the spike theorie damaging scope.

[astroman]

You may inspect the circuit just above the slot in the area of the card closest to the back of the PC.

I once got a Pulsar II with a short in that area... (a copper line burnt off the circuit).
The previous owner possibly handled the card in a powered PC and accidently hit something, dunno.
Such fault is easy to be missed visually.

[nebelfuerst]

.. just an idea, when an other pc doesn't bring any news:
As the powerpulsar has that floppy-powerconnector, that additional pcb might have been affected, if there really were severe PSU problems.
You could open the screws and just remove that pcb. Then try the "naked card" together with the pulsar1.

[BRG]

Progress. After many hours reviving my Intel D865PERL system, both my 6 & 15 DSP cards are functioning without ANY flaws on a 16 channel project running a MasterVerb, PsyQ and Optimaster on the entire mix. I will add the 4 DSP card tomorrow and I expect it too will work fine. It appears my PCI slots on the Gigabyte EP35 DS3R are nonfunctional for as yet an unknown reason. There may be an HPxw4600 on my wish list. I'm not thrilled with the idea of having to buy all new CPU/Ram etc.

[valis]

It’s likely the power regulation circuits (for the slots) took a hit

[BRG]

It’s likely the power regulation circuits (for the slots) took a hit

This was always my first thought but from what? The UPC with the new batteries, the failed original PSU or the new replacement (or all of the above)? I'm leaning toward the original PSU as it failed to turn on multiple times intermittently before total failure.

[nebelfuerst]

PCI is often handled by chips, which get pretty hot. Some boards had little fans, which generate ugly noise. Some had nothing.
On a larger scale, a dying PCI is not a rare event. On 500 PCs running 24/7 for 10 years, at least 10 failed due to PCI.

[BRG]

All 3 cards function perfectly in my noisy as heck D865 PERL box. If i could quiet it down with a different CPU/fan combo, I'd consider it. My failed system was extremely quiet. What's the consensus on the current quietest and reliable for a dual boot setup?