Status?

A place to talk about whatever Scope music/gear related stuff you want.

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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

Thanks. Has anyone ever run scope on macos via virtual machine?
Thinking about it, that would probably be the most elegant solution. (if it works at all).
Remember, I dont want to use it as a soundcard in macos. Only in windows.
I will have all the ports routed physically in/out from RME (macos) to scope (virtual PC).
Basically only use scope as an external fx box.

Thanks again and again:)
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Spindrift
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Re: Status?

Post by Spindrift »

Of course it is a bit annoying if you want to run Logic to have to use two machines, and if Logic is your preferred DAW your stuck with Mac of course.
Used to be a Logic user since back from the Notator days, but haven't used it since version 5.5, when Apple bought Emagic.
Always thought it was a dick move by when Apple just scrapped the engineering effort Emagic just made to have unified development for Mac and Windows. I just bought a PC myself since I found after working with setting up DAWs for studios that it was far ahead of Mac in performance. A couple of years before that Windows was pretty much unusable for a DAW, and either you still had an Atari for midi sequencing or used Mac. But just like they are battling innovation and trying to destroy others engineering efforts with the web today, they sabotaged perfectly good technology to try to you into business with them when they realized that they couldn't compete on merit. Same principle as the glass repair man breaking glass to get work.

Now with their move to unify iOS and OSX and moving to ARM, DAW and plugin makers will have other things to focus on than innovation, and in the end likely end up having to give Apple a 30% cut on everything and have their efforts constantly at jeopardy pending app store submission review. Not sure how it will work with Scope plugins, but I guess S|C also will have to give a 30% cut when they sell software or plugins if they should be installable on an ARM machine.
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

Thanks for your concern Spindrift:)

I'm sing pro tools and reaper. Not logic:)
I just very much prefer macos over windows for many reasons. Used to only use windows up until 2012 or so. And then switched to mac. Now running a hackintosh. (have built many pcs in the past and built many hackintoshes).

I just prefer macos. It tickles my creativity much more than windows for XYZ reasons. I dont want this thread to be a debate about platforms. If you are an informed person, those debates are pointless:)

The whole virtual machine thing (as mentioned 2 posts up).
Anyone who have any real world experience with it? (not using scope as a soundcard for macos).
Thanks
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Spindrift
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Re: Status?

Post by Spindrift »

Sure, like I said, not a stab at you, and we all have our preferences, but personally I get a bit concerned that S|C is putting resources into Mac support, especially in these times when future of Mac for audio use the coming years is a bit uncertain. Unfortunately I fear that what you would like to see them focus on will mean a lesser product for me.

But if they skip OSX support and go directly for ARM maybe it will make sense if they can can make a one product that works on all apple devices (at least until Apple removes a port or make changes requiring software to be rewritten :P).
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garyb
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Re: Status?

Post by garyb »

no. virtual machine won't work.
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jpo_midigods
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Re: Status?

Post by jpo_midigods »

the19thbear wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:02 pm
Do you know of a very small form factor pc with a pci slot? Can be super old. It only needs to run Windows 10 or xp and scope. Nothing more.
I have 3 old pulsars into a HP D330 Microtower. Working headless with XP, adat, midi and ethernet cabling, no problems over the years. Well designed and also cheapest and smallest chassis for stacked pulsars on a short 4U portable realtime audio box - cheers!
"MIDI is the languaje of Gods" (anon)
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

I understand you spindrift:)

GaryB: bummer with virtual machine, but it is what it is.

Thanks for the model number jpo.

Hope to someday grab one of these used, very cheap. Have actually found one already on Ebay:

https://www.stealth.com/wp-content/uplo ... asheet.pdf

Do the specs look ok for scope+win10?

Still not sure if I will go through with this, but we will see:)
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valis
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Re: Status?

Post by valis »

That stealth thing is too small, though it's interesting you both are talking about the Intel 865G chipset. Too old for Win10 (it will work, but slowly) and that stealth case is too small for my taste. Our cards are aging, give them some good ariflow and get as many years from them as you can. You could step back to an older OS, but the only chips I'd go for in 865G land would be celerons, the P4 during that era was just too much of a heat machine. There's plenty of modern chipsets that handle Scope PCI fine if you need Win10 & modern software support alongside Scope 7. GaryB can help here too by simply listing chipsets from the i3/i5/i7 era that do NOT work well, that list is shorter.

Still, Gary's recommendation for computers are on point, they offer a good chipset and plenty of CPU power and are incredibly cheap on ebay and easy to maintain. Not hard to upgrade the fans and heatsink for completely silent operation if that's your need as well.

As for virtual machines & keeping scope inside your Mac environment, think of Scope as something more akin to a TC SYSTEM 6000 or similar outboard and I think you'll find this workflow much more approachable and make more sensible decisions. What you want for a host computer is something that will keep the cards cool, provide stable power, and has the potential for 24/7 operation without error. A good PSU, a solid chipset with 2-3 PCI slots, and enough cpu oomph to run an occasional ASIO application on top of scope. Fwiw I have a machine still built in 2001 and still running XP housing my cards, and since it's a dual xeon I can still run Bidule with a few plugins just fine when it suits my fancy.
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

Thanks for your input. I just want to get a small case as possible. Thats it. But I understand the heat problem. Might cut a hole and insert a big fan to help out in general.
But please keep the thoughts coming:)
dawman
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Re: Status?

Post by dawman »

Love the 865PERL I have.
Nothing but what’s needed, no audio, no excess GFX crap.
AGP 4X was cool with my Matrox G450.
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

There is also this guy.
Would this chipset work ok?

http://global.shuttle.com/news/products ... oductId=99

I bit the bullet and got an old pulsar 1 card for next to nothing. When it arrives I will go pc hunting.
I can get the above pc very cheap.
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valis
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Re: Status?

Post by valis »

Via chipsets were never stellar. AMD's Phenom II era has some PCI slots, and there's a slew of compatible Intel chipsets out there. Here where I live I can peruse Craigslist in addition to Ebay for used gear I can check out in person, and grab sans shipping. Something as old as the HP boxen GaryB recommended would generally run around $50-75 and require at most a PSU swap and some thermal compound.
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Spindrift
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Re: Status?

Post by Spindrift »

VIA Chipset wont be good for much I'm guessing.

One option is if you can find a good but old laptop with PCMCIA and use a magma. I actually have a PCMCIA magma I can sell...don't think they are worth much nowadays since it is hard to find a computer with a port.

I have been running it with a Pulsar 2 on a couple of top end Dell laptops, and it has been working great. As good spec as you can find but still with PCMCIA will most likely work fine and considering how many years ago they ditched PCMCIA it will be cheap if you find one. Although I just checked and for example a Precision M4500 doesn't seem to have dropped in price at all since I bought one used more than 5 years ago, still around €300 amazingly.
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

Thanks people.
I am looking for a self contained thing. Not any external chassis etc.
As small as possible and would be great if it could run win 10.
Either pretty flat and larger footprint (like rack gear) or more chubby and long. The problem with the flat and large solution is that I have only found pc's with half size pci slots (the actual bracket on the back).
Dont want a normal tower. Trying to save space.
If it is a tower, it should be as small as possible.

Garybs suggestions are technically fine, but just too big for me.
dawman
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Re: Status?

Post by dawman »

How many cards?
PlinkUSA has a 2U with 3 x horizontal full length slots.
It’s 15” deep.
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ronnie
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Re: Status?

Post by ronnie »

dante wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:42 pm Some work but with limits on the number of cards and overall bandwidth. Cheaper and easier to get a HP or equivalent with PCI slots … per Ronnie. Gary ?
Gary's guru advice and I never looked back!

Here's one with XEON chips and two drives, Windows 10. nVidea 8GB. Refurb. $150. Get Anothe 8GB real cheap. Always get a refurb with a guarantee.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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Re: Status?

Post by ronnie »

"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

Thanks
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the19thbear
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Re: Status?

Post by the19thbear »

Hi again. Just thougth i'd chime in again.

I'm currently opening up my own audio business (again), doing sound effects and music for computer games.
Because of that and potential new gear, I wanted to know what was new from SC.
I called up Holger yesterday and had a chat with him. A pleasent guy, and it turns out he has family that lives in the same country that I live in, and even family that lives in the same city that a lot of my relatives live in. Small world :)
-I asked him about SC news and he (as stated earlier in this thread), talked about a new product. Not something that would be directly compatible with scope, but a stand-alone thing that will have macos, windows and linux support. He could not say much, because of confidentiality, but some sort of audio device. It would probably be released in about a year or so. This would not be a normal sound card or anything like that. Got the impression that this had nothing to do with the normal scope architecture.
Just thought I would let you know:)

Cheers
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valis
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Re: Status?

Post by valis »

That would make sense, a unit that acts as a possible soundcard with standalone/built in processing capabilities would work well in the modern climate.
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