This would be REALLY nice...

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dante
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This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

Cherry Audio synths are nice and large. Would be great would be to have the main classic Scope synths in hi-res.

Below is our beloved Scope ARP Odyssey superimposed on Cherry Audio ARP Quadra
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Bud Weiser
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by Bud Weiser »

dante wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:00 pm Cherry Audio synths are nice and large. Would be great would be to have the main classic Scope synths in hi-res.
I have some CA synths.
But updates come w/ problems.
It seems, focus on plugin-updates is graphics s##t and Mac M1 compatibility these days.

I recognized, updated Cherry Audio Voltage Modular as also now updated NI Massive X won´t be recognized and don´t load into Reason 11.3 anymore.
Did you recognize similar crap w/ Reason too ?

I guess all comes from libraries used for resizable GUIs and hi-rez.

To me, it´s all gimmicks and unneccessary because I wanna make music, hear it, not watch.
It´s nice to have bigger hi-rez GUIs when it works and doesn´t introduce other bugs, but it comes w/ more and more bugs now, Win 7 and Win 10.
Some use JUICE, other iPlug, iPlug2 and whatelse.
There´s no standard and there are bugs.

I really like Scope being simple and stable,- even it´s not latest/greatest fashion,- and as long my old eyes can read everything.
I have to use glasses anyway now.

I can work w/ black/white ATARI appearance when it sounds good !

:)

Bud
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valis
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

I have had issues with the same plugin maker and some of his plugins not updated, related to JUCE. So there are bugs between different versions of even the same UI kits, I can believe that would be the case between others.

Scope actually has a fairly robust graphics capability in the SDK that isn't fully utilized in the final Scope form (as we have it now). Making resizable GUI's that follow the windows standard API sure seems as simple as making the call, and then telling Scope to apply the appropriate up scaling on its end. However with bitmap based resources, that typically requires bitmaps created for each possible scaling factor, or elements that are vector. Since we have many old devices, that would simply mean blurry UI's.

Since the same thing can be achieved with the built in Scope scaling, and many modern plugins can then be scaled BACK to a smaller size under that condition, would this not work?
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dante
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

I’ve had instability in Reason since the graphic update, but in midi or audio editing, not VST.

The CA synths have been rock solid.

What’s the built in Scope scaling ? Didn’t know about it.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by Bud Weiser »

dante wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:42 am I’ve had instability in Reason since the graphic update, but in midi or audio editing, not VST.

The CA synths have been rock solid.
Cherry Audio Voltage Modular basic version is free.
It was updated to v2.5 and yesterday when I launched, I got the notification.
It is still VST 2.4 and there´s a VST3 and standalone version in addition.
I just downloaded for the Win10 laptop.

Plz download and install, then report back if it loads into Reason 10.4 / 11.3 or current version.

Edit:
I double checked and ALL the Cherry Audio plugins crackle in Reason 10.4 and 11.3 on my Win7 Pro SP1 64bit DAW I use w/ Scope/XITE.
But they crackle ONLY in Reason,- not Reaper and not in Studio One Pro 4.6 .
Voltage Modular itself appears in Reason´s instrument list, but when you drag it from browser it Reason´s rack, it doesn´t load w/ the notification "unable loading a file".

:)

Bud
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

Voltage Modular loads and played OK when I first loaded it into Reason 12. I tested it for about 10 minutes (using both XITE-1D and Apollo as Audio interface).

But second time I loaded Reason and Voltage Modular I could hear crackles - even after allowing a minute for loading and turned gain down.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by Bud Weiser »

Thank you, Dante !
At least, we now know, it´s not SCOPE ASIO as also not Win 7 Pro SP1 or Win10.
I was unable testing Win10 because I didn´t install reason on my laptop.

I guess the cause could be latest runtimes, Java included, but I´m not sure.

I´m also irritated because Reason showed problems scanning plugins after NI updated Massive X automatic via Native Access.
On my machine, Reason isn´t pointed to VST3 folders, so these are ignored,- and there´s a updated version Massive X VST2 in my VSTplugins x64 folder which is been scanned.
It SHOULD work but doesn´t come up in Reason´s instruments folder and subfolders, sorted by manufacturer.

Well,- VST3 Reason rack plugin works in DAW w/o crackles loading Reason stock devices,- the only way to use Reason now because I think they will never fix v11.3 or previous v10.4 at all.

NI is possibly to blame for Massive X failure.
Reading changelog shows one reason for update was "user subscription experience".

Since more and more companies move on in direction of subscription business models, I have the impression all the other and for real work more important quality characteristics suffer.

:)

Bud
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valis
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

Massive X breaks UI compatibility constantly, especially on Macs. It's certainly their UI/UX library, because other 'new' smaller devices at the same time have similar compatibility changes (reflected in what OS versions they drop, and why) as well as similar bugs. The subscription model is a somewhat separate discussion, but certainly continues to move them in a direction that's going to be more tied to consistent hardware updates to stay in lockstep with the entire ecosystem.

If you're making any money, it really makes sense to put all of that under lease contracts and subscription models, so that's the target model for established players. There's so much on the market now that I don't see the larger entities as a barrier to entry for people who don't want to use that model. For someone who actually owns their software, that's a different story, but I still have 2008 era machines here running older versions of their software fine as well. Note I don't currently subscribe.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

My impression is that Voltage Modular is a CPU hog.
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valis
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

It might have core loading issues in Reason, I haven't used Reason in that context, and there's a reason they didn't support plugins for years. Rack extensions seems like they would be more in step with development, but managing plugins to mitigate issues is nothing new and seems far easier in this era than in years past where using a specific version that worked with your configuration sometimes meant owning a license but using a copy lifted from a 'friend' just to bypass certain issues or have an older version that the developer didn't keep exposed on their site.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by Bud Weiser »

dante wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:32 am My impression is that Voltage Modular is a CPU hog.
I cannot confirm for "standalone" and in Reaper.
It might be in Reason.

But,- as w/ all the virtual modulars, CPU usage depends on complexity of patch, count of modules used s also the more or less complex functionality of any given module.

I only use it for the VM900 (virtual MOOG 900) modules I bought at a discount.
The modules received updates too when I launched the shell.

All issues I recognize on DAW come from graphics since "hi-res" and "resizable" is the most important.
Animation of keys and controls can cause crap too since some time now.
Depending on plugin, It disappears when there´s a way to disable animations and/or close GUI.
But sometimes there´s no chance to get rid of.

It´s insane all works in Reaper w/o issues and even using it´s internal bridge for 32Bit plugins.

:)

Bud
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valis
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

This is why I host things on other computers btw, at least one reason. The other is something I just prepared to explore, and am VERY much looking forward to doing so.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

valis wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:33 am Since the same thing can be achieved with the built in Scope scaling, and many modern plugins can then be scaled BACK to a smaller size under that condition, would this not work?
I couldnt find any way to make prodyssey bigger. Please advise about 'built in Scope scaling'.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

In that case I was speaking of a potential Scope update, it's not something currently implemnted, and as stated since so many devices use bitmaps there would be a lot of work to get older UI's updated.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

Yes - but likely the work wouldn't involve DSP coding - so no need hire expensive DSP programmers. And my suggestion was 'Classic Synths' only - eg Prodyssey, Minimax, B2003, Protone and UKnow. 5 synths . Not 'all devices that use bitmaps'.

Perhaps something assisted by SDK user(s) donating time (?) I mean, you did ask for suggestions about things we could do.

And for this feature alone, I'd pay an upgrade price.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

I'm suggesting it can be added to S|C's list, or likely already is, and in the meantime you can set the application and/or windows desktop scaling options, then scale other applications, plugins separately etc.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by dante »

Ok, I only know how to scale the whole desktop and text size by right click on desktop => Display Settings => Scale and Layout. Cant find any way to scale just Scope.

Oh - I forgot Profit 5 so that makes 6 in total.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

With specific applications, you can right click the shortcut and choose the Compatibility tab, in combination with the Windows settings for scaling. And for the windows (global) settings, there's an 'advanced scaling settings' section in Win10 as well. Win11 of course moves it all around, so let's presume you're on Win10:

Set your global scaling for Scope to be easily scaled. In Scope's shortcut, to to the Compatibility tab and set it to "Use this setting" at the top, and then "Use the DPI that's set for my main display when" and set that to when you launch the app. It will then be sure to be scaled according to windows.

For other applications, use the checkmark at the bottom "Override high DPI scaling behavior" and use the one that gives the correct result.
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Re: This would be REALLY nice...

Post by valis »

Note that the settings may actually affect certain applications in the opposite manner compared to others, depending on what (if anything) the author implemented. These settings have existed since Win7, but Win10 & 11 make things work significantly better for the global setting vs. applications, IF they have been updated recently.
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