Nails in the Coffin

[hubird]

no, THOSE solar panels are for the military.

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/ ... rty-secret
http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/sol ... -you-think

Well, that 'no' is a bit framing me, as I obviously just wanted to show the change is already there.
Even if it's meant to be for military or crisis purposes.

I know making solar panels is a polluting proces.
But they last for at least 20 years at a 80% revenue level.
Burning fossil fuels pollutes continuously.
That makes a HUGE difference...

Not to speak about the fact that the main problem -climate wise- is emission of CO2.
Bad social and environmental mining conditions are another thing to be solved, but lets keep things clear

I know you, Garyb, think the human CO2 emission is negligible, but you are a almost an extinct species concerning this theme.
No one on earth still denies the relationship between CO2 emission and global temperature.
And no one on earth still denies that the time scale of the proces is extremely focked up since 1850, earth has never experienced this tempo before.
Well, almost no one is, admitted
No problem to agree we disagree about this tho

So we, the people, should do something about it, and we will do something about it.
Not because governments want it, but because worldwide the people force the governments to do it.
The people itself, the tribes, so to say...

Hack, in my country the judges even condemned our government to do so, it was world wide news lately.
http://www.urgenda.nl/en/climate-case/

And to JV, I like everyone's contribution to the discussion, especially when it's on content.
Showing me the way out to other forums just because I make a post on an (already existing) climate thread is way out of order.
Why don't you go home?
Actually it's your opinion on this which is getting deviating these days
Geezz.
Ankyu

[dawman]

Explain why Europe is and has been building coal fire plants like never before?
Would you care to see why I cant fish the Cumberland due to massive barges of coal heading to Europe?

On occasion I read a book I dont like as it furthers my education.
The only benefit to saving Earth is for ALL governments to stop warring over resources.
Once they realize they have an unarmed docile population its game over.

But some folks enjoy having kings and queens. Free food free school to further the indoctrination process.
I prefer the battle of friendly competition and know how to live off of the land.
Remember me during the next staged crisis where you might wait for your absentee landlord for food and drink.
I will be doing all fine up in the mountains.
Just like my gradfather did when the Rothschilds finally got thier dream of a big central bank.
They thrive from our debt.
At 18.5 trillion and Chinas currency as a reserve I see that as a bigger concern than a degree rise in tempurature 100 years from now...

Ankyu.......Im here all week........no please........stay seated.

[dawman]

I was simply redirecting you to a forum full of those who worship wealthy climate change entrepenuers.
Wasnt trying to be rude. Just thought youd be hailed as an elite. Cheered and applauded.
Hell they might even sing songs about you.

[garyb]

what everyone thinks and what is, are not always the same thing.

hubird, i gave you peer reviewed scientific numbers and you try to make it seem like i'm saying something else. i was only pointing out facts. look them up yourself. i said that i like solar panels and i am using them.

by the way, there really isn't anything called "fossil fuel". most of the petroleum isn't organic. it is something that happens when water and carbon, three of the most common substances in the universe(water is hydrogen and oxygen. oh look! carbon, hydrogen and oxygen chains make petroleum!), are subjected to high pressure. petroleum can be made in a lab. Hitler ran his army on synthetic petroleum. you can buy synthetic petroleum for your car's engine as soon as the auto part store opens in the morning.

[JoPo]

I remember in the 80-90's , all mass media started to tell us "you'll see, in 10 years, sking will become impossible : no more snow" and plenty of other thing like that... How can one still believe in this without all the media going on to implement that in people brain ? Saying that with global warming, we'll have more & stronger meteorological disaster is insane is there is less temperature difference between poles & equator !

The only evidence climat get warm is computer simulation ! But if you program your simulator by telling it that CO² increase temperature, the result will show temperature increasement ! All physical mesurements show there is no abnormal warming ! Only normal, like there always was variations.


http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/ ... means1.png

I guess this has been already said : around the 1° millenium, there was a lot of vineyard in the north of london ! Greenland takes its name because of its colour at that time ! In France, there is a village which disapeared under a glacier in the 'little ice age' and is still under today !

Climat has always changed and still does it. And now, media don't speak about 'global warming' but 'climat change' !! Like that, they always win ! They decided that the normal earth climat is the weather there was in 1850 - 1900 ; why ? It's totaly arbitrary ! But in the main part of earth history, there was NO ice on poles ! There was dinausaures on antartic ! And in other time, earth was totaly covered by ice ! Is it because of men activity ??

The stupid thing is to focalise on a problem that doesn't exist and spend a lot of money, power against it when there is real ecological problems that nobody cares. Who knows that today, there much less polution than 100 years ago when all industry was powered by coal ?
It's completly crazy to continue again & again in a wrong way. It makes me sick : there is so much urgent things to do to improve our impact on our environment ! But no ! All our power, all our intelligence to fight ghost ! And now, it became a very good business ! You can't imagine what happened when France gouvernment gave money to help people to buy hot air pumps : all those company created in one day to install those pump to people house to take the money, during 2 or 3 years, then disapeared before there clients realize it was a simple swindle !
I could write pages & pages about climat subject...

[zerocrossing]

Again, I simply bring up an obvious but ignored point:

Shouldn't we trying to pollute less regardless?

Love,

Mark

[garyb]

yes!

that's something you can begin to do yourself....it has nothing to do with climate, it's just good sense and it has been suggested in this very thread.

[dawman]

Solar is a great way to camp.

Fires are always nice when it's Fall.
But solar is the modern way to camp.
Backpack designs are getting cheaper.
In the S.Western US where sunshine is
abundant backpacks recharge daily after 5-6 hours.
Great for laptops phones and cooking.
I bought a trailer hitch that can power
4000+ watts for an entire evening.
Used for 3000.
The State DOT and Police auction off
used ones that are in great shape.
But the backpacks are great.
We carry food and water to an
isolated beach and stay for as long
as the food lasts.
Water is so pure you can drink it.
Here's where I go with my youngest
every year.

DSC_0161.JPG (1.75 MiB) Viewed 1540 times

[hubird]

wha Syrian refugies...

Anonymous street artist Banksy painted an image of Steve Jobs, the child of a Syrian immigrant, on a wall in France’s infamous Calais refugee camp:

[braincell]

Who do I believe on climate change?

Should I go with 99% of all scientists + the rest of the developed world OR a handful of wingnut, paranoid, conspiracy theory rethuglicans?

[garyb]

what 99%?

look, the climate IS changing. it ALWAYS changes. it has NEVER been "stable". there have been endless cold and hot periods, if you believe the science. it's not people's fault, unless you count the actual "geo-engineering".

[Nestor]

WHOEVER WANTS REAL INFORMATION MUST FIGHT HARD HIS WAY TO OBTAIN IT, because information is entirely in the hands of those who “create” the news and spread those news through “their own media" with the sole purpose of achieving their goals. I believe more in people and observation than in any news, reports of scientific studies made by groups of people that belong or work for big corporations, like Monsanto for instance, to name one of them, or anything that may come from bias media big-money-corporations altogether.

Climate is changing, of course it is, it is part of a natural process and we all have observed it with our own eyes, why do you need anyone else to tell YOU, what YOU YOURSELF can see and verify through your own means? I don’t think that becoming a slave of what the news tell us is a good thing, where is our own capacity for intelligence, thought and inference? I refuse frontally to be a slave of “beleaving”, I do not believe in what this tricky system tells me, I can investigate by myself and then have my own conclusions. I don't need anybody to put food in my mouth, I can handle it by myself with some effort and hard work.

My conclusion is that there is a natural cycle that comes and goes, but there is also a hidden truth, indeed problematic: we have abused nature extremely much, well beyond our knowledge (they do not tell you the truth in the news, no no), nature is in trouble, much more that you could possibly imagine! You need to fight to obtain this difficult information big comporations do not want you to know. For instance, which is the reason Tibet has been taken by the disgusting, hyper materialistic and cold to death Chinese government? The answer is URANIUM. How much mercury has been spread into the atmosphere, hundreds and hundreds of times more than our body can resist. How much harm our food does to us through chemicals? Much, much more than expected, but all these truths are hidden by money and by force, because nobody up there want to stop doing millions and millions of dollars. Let check out sugar and pork, just for a start, and be amazed at how bad both things are for our health, but we eat plainty of both these things.

What should concern us right now?, which is the most important thing?, the real information that should concern everybody is that the past 16th of November the third world war already started, and from now and on we will only see how the word is going to escalate to a widespread conflagration never seen in history. Who cares about clime change anymore, when there is such a war upon us… our only hope would be to stop this barbaric leaders.

[hubird]

It's not about the climate changing, it's about the rate of the change...
And the current rate is human made, so hopefully we can change it back to a more natural tempo.

It's a political struggle, Nestor, between opposite forces.

I get regular mails about the progress of the struggle from several nature organisations worldwide.
Shell lost an important juridical fight today, in example.

Don't make it a mystic secret fight between the Good and the Bad forces.
That's nice for those who don't understand.
It's not a movie, it's just a socio-political struggle between groups of interests, like everything and always.

Things are turning right slowly, but those 2 degrees will be unavoidable I'm afraid
I don't have children, but friends do.
Our kids are the ones who have to deal with it in the first place

[Nestor]

I can’t deny I strongly believe in good and evil forces, it’s true. For me, both forces are a reality and are the bottom line that dominates life, people, and everything we do.

I really would like to see a better world. I would love to see people having a magnificent life. I would love to see strong friendship everywhere, no divisions, no distances, like if we all were a big family called mankind.

Sometimes, when I am alone and sad for what I see is happening, walking around somewhere in this world, I can see everything upside-down, and I can sense we have inversed our values to such an extent, that we don’t longer are able to distinguish good from evil.

To leave competition out is seen as bad, not to be proud of oneself it is considered to be stupid, not to have a strong character it is to be weak, if you don’t fight in the market you are swallowed by the many other businesses around and you are considered an inept, if you don’t have a lot of sex you are considered someone who does not enjoy life, if you don't have a lot of money you are considered a looser and a worthless person, and so on… Well... I don’t believe it, all on the opposite, I see life upside down and I can feel in my heart, and I know for sure that all these things bring us pain, grief, sorrow. There are so many valuable things that we don’t longer consider important… Money and power have become God in this earth, and this cannot be good. Love, how far can it go? I don't think I have ever reached its immensurable deepness of existence, nevertheless, I intuit it is infinite and it is the most important thing in life. Today, many people would laugh at my thoughts, because they are too simple and have not ambition. I believe in naturalness nevertheless, perhaps life is much simpler and much fuller than we have so far acknowledged it is. We can certainly learn from animals, little children and nature, wherever there is still pure consciousness, and in this world of no aggression but peace, of no competition but cooperation, of not being super rich but satisfied, there is a whole mystery to be discovered.

[garyb]

hubird, the only thing that humans are responsible in the RATE of climate change is in the areas of geo-engineering.

it's definitely not from CO2, the thing that is waived around as the solution to everything, if only we didn't produce it. but human CO2 is such an infinitesimal amount(0.3%) in comparison to things like water vapor(some 95%) of all greenhouse gases. even if CO2 levels are rising sharply in general, the earth's CO2 levels are actually in the lowest period in the history of the earth, according to the scientists who study these things.

clearly, CO2 is not the issue.

that doesn't mean that humans(i think that these guys are human) shouldn't stop doing things that are truly destructive. there ARE people trying to manipulate the climate, even people trying to wage war that way. it doesn't matter if i'm called e-alarm, or tinfoil guy, there are international agreements that are in public record regarding such things. it is a fact that during the Vietnam conflict, the US Army was seeding clouds to mire enemy armies in rain and muck. the effectiveness isn't the issue. the point is, there are very real activities that are attempts to modify weather, sometimes in very large areas.

some of the attempts to modify weather are to avoid the present "crisis".

i'm saying that ALL attempts to change the weather need to cease. humans really don't know enough about the system to do anything without making a mess. "climate change" is no reason to give folks the idea that it's their job to mess with the weather. as i said, "geo-engineering" is a much more real threat to humanity and the earth's eco system.

have you ever seen what an area that had had placer gold miningon it looked like after the mining was complete? utter devastation. have you seen what the same area looks like 60 years later? if you don't know what to look for, it looks the same as it ever did in the past. human lifetimes are short. we are subject to disasters and the like. that's how it SHOULD be. humans have thrived. all this will pass too.

"climate change" is not something to legislate. that's just hubris.

[dawman]

I believe in climate change.
I moved back east to the midwest and they have these odd occurances referred to as seasons.
In Nevada I didnt believe in climate change because the climate was always the same.

But Im a believer now as I experienced it.

We must as humans put a stop to this madness and keep the weather the same year round or it will be demise.
I am burning wood in hopes of warming the air to chase away the clouds and this scourge called climate change.

I belivev the 99% percent of climate scientists who say there is climate change.

I have witnessed it.
I am a believer....

[Bud Weiser]

I am burning wood in hopes of warming the air to chase away the clouds ...

Occasional farts help too !



Bud

[braincell]

"climate change" is not something to legislate. that's just hubris.

A consensus of 196 countries attending the The 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference think you are wrong.

[garyb]

oh wait! what?

politicians say it's all my fault?

of course i'd believe honest men like that, even if actual science says it's bull.

dude are you so braindead that you can't actually read what i write? i do NOT deny that the climate is changing, or even that it might be catastrophic for some. what i don't believe is that the LEGISLATION will help in any way. i also don't believe that any of the ideas about changing the climate by governments or other powers that be can do anything but more harm. i know, you don't care that 95% of greenhouse gases is water vapor, something that no protocol will affect. you don't care that CO2 levels have been higher in the past, with the Earth's temperatures being migher AND lower than they are today. you don't care that the present warming period beginning in the mid 1800s ended "the little ice age". why? exactly why are these things something to ignore? give me something other than "a smart guy told me so and i believe him".

[guppy]

There's still some people to believe into co2 climate human change ? lol
mankind is lost
Just a little study (with a non degenerate brain) should be enough to have a clean opinion about it
Al Gore and his teams are working well
Stop breathing everybody haha