I'm sold! More questions...

[zerocrossing]

First I want to say thanks to all who helped out so far. As I said earlier a good user community for a product like this is huge in my eyes.

I looked at my situation and I decided that I'll let my Prophet 12 go and keep a few hardware analogs... maybe sell the analogs after I get it depending on how I feel about the various software instruments. Do any of you keep analog synths around, or do you find there is really no need? I already feel like VSTs like Oddity 2, XILS Syn'X 2, Monark and Diva get me almost all the way there as it is. My hardware analog include an ATC-X, Neptune 2, Pulse 2, Bass Station 2 and an Analog Four. My initial thoughts would be to get rid of the Analog Four and Bass Station 2, but who knows... thoughts?

If I keep more than 2 analogs, I'll need more i/o than the XITE-1D can provide. It occurred to me last night that I have two older MOTU 828 interfaces that might be put to good use for this... possible? They have ADAT outputs, though I've never used them.

The 12 will go because though I love it, I mostly use it for aggressive digital sounding NINish (Prophet VSish) kind of sounds, and truth be told, I don't use sounds like that all that often. Not often enough to warrant that much cash tied up in a single fixed architecture instrument, even if it's the best combination of functionality and interface I've ever seen on a synth. Of course it also does other types of digital wavetableish sounds really well too, but I can get those in Scope and various other software synths. Which brings me to my next question, what are the best Scope Wavetable plug ins that could replace(ish) the 12? I'm not a giant fan of the Microwave XT sound. At that time I went with an Ensoniq TS-10. I've always loved the Fizmo from afar. I also love the Virus TI's Wavetable engine, though I always hated it's filters for some reason. I've also always G.A.S.ed for a Modulus .002 and the Solaris. (I'm aware there's a limited function version of the Solaris for Scope.)

Also, is it best to buy one of these direct? It seems their retail distribution is super limited in the USA. I only found one retailer that has them. They're good though, I've used them before. I'm surprised Sweetwater doesn't distribute them. I don't see any used around, but I'd be open to that.

...and finally, I might be able to do the XITE-1 instead of the XITE-1D if I ditch all my hardware. Considering I will still have a very functional PC with most of the better software instruments on it, would you advice that? My productions aren't very complicated, yet I wonder if I'd regret getting the D due to it's limitations.

[tlaskows]

Doesn't Xite have ADAT I/O? You can just hook up an old A16 Ultra to it that goes for around $400 these days. Mine works great!

Oh, I just googled it, it looks like it has ADAT and Zlink. Zlink seems more reliable to me.

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

Doesn't Xite have ADAT I/O? You can just hook up an old A16 Ultra to it that goes for around $400 these days. Mine works great!

Oh, I just googled it, it looks like it has ADAT and Zlink. Zlink seems more reliable to me.

-Tom

I was hoping to make use of something I already had to avoid extra expense.

[tlaskows]

No, it won't work with the Motu. you can't really use 2 sound cards at the same time

-Tom

[jksuperstar]

The MOTU could work over ADAT but use word clock (unless you have the blue faced old one which doesn't have word clock). You can keep it connected to the computer just to control the routing of IO to the ADAT ports, but not route the audio through the PC.

Every port (including headphones) has it's own modules within scope for access, but they must be in the project window to use them. Nothing shares a port with something else. So ADAT can be used now, and be expanded with a z-link device later if needed (or AES/EBU).

I think one of the best wavetable based synths is the Zarg Pro-Wave. It is a more basic architecture, based on the Prophet 5, but the oscillators, filters, and LFOs are all modular...they can be swapped for various other versions (so you can select the Juno, Moog, CEM, SEM, or other filters for example, or the CEM, SEM, Wavetable, or infinite other oscillators -- I say infinite because one the filters or oscillators that is selectable is a modular shell...you can build your own oscillator.) This synth is simple enough to get plenty of polyphony, but deep enough (for me) to get almost any sound you want from it. Add the Modular version of the pro-wave, and you can even add envelopes or other LFOs where you need it.

That synth alone is the "one" I'd recommend, and with the quality of the sound, I find myself selling my evolver, never touching my FATMAN, and I don't bother with Ableton synths anymore. Along side many of the other included synths, available ones (like Prodyssey), and 3rd party freebies...I think you can get most work done. But, there's always preferences for immediacy when inspiration strikes, so I wouldn't sell off all of your analog stuff!

[tlaskows]

Most of the synths for Scope sound terrific, the old one are not as good (but those are from like 1997). But I am not using ANY analog synths, cause Scope sounds just so good. I have the Pro Wave and yes it's great. I also have the Diva, the sound is not much better than Scope synths (if any better at all...).

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

The MOTU could work over ADAT but use word clock (unless you have the blue faced old one which doesn't have word clock). You can keep it connected to the computer just to control the routing of IO to the ADAT ports, but not route the audio through the PC.

I think it does. From the manual:

SYNC TO SMPTE, WORD CLOCK, VIDEO
To synchronize (continuously resolve) the
MOTU 828 with SMPTE time code, word clock,
video or blackburst, you will need a MOTU Digital
Timepiece, MIDI Timepiece AV or any other
universal synchronizer equipped with ADAT sync.
The synchronizer resolves continuously to the
chosen time base, and the MOTU 828 slaves to the
synchronizer via ADAT Sync. In addition, the
audio software running on the computer slaves to
MIDI Time Code generated by the synchronizer.
How accurate will transfers be between your audio
software and other audio devices? As good as the
resolution of MIDI time code, which — at 30 fps —
provides quarter frame resolution of 120th of a
second (367 samples at 44.1 KHz). But if you are
running your synchronizer under its own internal
clock (triggering it via MMC from your software),
you will probably get even tighter timing than that
— perhaps as good as ±50 samples.

I think one of the best wavetable based synths is the Zarg Pro-Wave. It is a more basic architecture, based on the Prophet 5, but the oscillators, filters, and LFOs are all modular...they can be swapped for various other versions (so you can select the Juno, Moog, CEM, SEM, or other filters for example, or the CEM, SEM, Wavetable, or infinite other oscillators -- I say infinite because one the filters or oscillators that is selectable is a modular shell...you can build your own oscillator.) This synth is simple enough to get plenty of polyphony, but deep enough (for me) to get almost any sound you want from it. Add the Modular version of the pro-wave, and you can even add envelopes or other LFOs where you need it.

That synth alone is the "one" I'd recommend, and with the quality of the sound, I find myself selling my evolver, never touching my FATMAN, and I don't bother with Ableton synths anymore. Along side many of the other included synths, available ones (like Prodyssey), and 3rd party freebies...I think you can get most work done. But, there's always preferences for immediacy when inspiration strikes, so I wouldn't sell off all of your analog stuff!

Thanks for the recommendation... but it seems like that one is very light on modulation options. One LFO? That seems light from what I'm used to.

[garyb]

yes, it should work, but you'd be better off selling it and the other interface. they would sell very quickly. then you could get a couple of the Behringer ADA8200s or an old A16 Ultra or an A15 Mk2 with the money. the old stuff will sell easily and quickly on ebay, and you'll get better in return.

[zerocrossing]

yes, it should work, but you'd be better off selling it and the other interface. they would sell very quickly. then you could get a couple of the Behringer ADA8200s or an old A16 Ultra or an A15 Mk2 with the money. the old stuff will sell easily and quickly on ebay, and you'll get better in return.

The Behringer ADA8200 looks like it may work, but it limits you to working at 48khz, eh? Also, they sure aren't known for producing quality gear. I once picked up one of their small mixers for little cafe gigs and it was the noisiest thing known to human kind. Is it decent?

[tlaskows]

You can mod it to sound a lot better if you're good with the soldering iron

Really, I think most people on here said the Ultra sounds better.

-Tom

[garyb]

the A16 Ultra IS better. a used one would be a very nice thing, indeed.

the ADA8200 has 8 mic pres. they're made by Midas, if that matters. the ADA8200 is very competent and it's not bad gear at all. personally, i have two A16 Mk2s and i wouldn't want anything less. the A16 Mk2s are the same quality as converters that are three times the price, but it still might be a bit more money than one wants to spend(they're actually cheap at $1400 for 16 channels of in and outs that can be used in any combination). if you want to conpare, the ADA9200 has newer and better converter chips than the MOTU does....

NOBODY who is on any kind of a limited budget(as opposed to an unlimited budget) will EVER need a higher samplerate than 44.1k. CDs are only 44.1k and more DVDs are only 48k. there ARE some advantages to 96k, nut not in the completed product. for sure, many filters are better at the higher samplerates. most gains are lost in downsampling the final mix. people are listening to stuff on mp3s, too... andyway, ADAT does allow 96k, but you lose half of the channels to do so. the mode is called SMUX and it involves using two channels at 48k to achieve 96k. most converters support SMUX.

[petal]

Also - scope doesn't really work that great at 96Khz.

It can be done, but only with very limited projects.

[dante]

Depends how you use it. This year so far Ive mixed 91 projects at 96Khz using the XITE-1D as a mastering engine and synth. Goal to remix 100 by years end now in site. 96KHz no issue here.

[Bud Weiser]

the A16 Ultra IS better. a used one would be a very nice thing, indeed.

Well known issues of Behringer converters were the PSUs, soldering joints and other you don´t hear when you buy ´em new.
When Behringer was small company pure german production, build quality was better.
Uli B. is an enthusiastic guy, but the marketing concept was always,- "give musicians quality gear at low price".
That´s what he did and does,- but producing for a low street price also means lots of compromizes.
Since chinese production took place, many devices don´t survive for a very long time.
You get ´em cheap and in good working condition, but also for a very limited time only.

RME, Creamware and Ferrofish A16mkII is definitely a different league in regards of long time reliability.

I´m waiting for the Ferrofish A32 being released and available in german shops.

Bud

[garyb]

all true, but i've seen more than twenty five ADA8000-ADA8200 and never seen a problem.

[ronnie]

The Behringer ADA8200 with Black Lion Audio Premium Mod is only around $820 from reverb.com. Gets raves.

I use an 828 Mk II Firewire on a laptop and route in and out of my Scope box via ADAT with no issues. I don't need more than the two pres for vocals and guitars at any one time. Of course it has an additional 8 line inputs for analog gear as well. I also use Radial DI boxes right into Scope and have a Luna 24/96 Z-Link box for more analog ins and outs via Z-Link which has no compromises at any sample rate. All cheap but bulletproof, no muss no fuss and I can get what I need. Great sound, low budget. Have my BCF-2000 and Radikal SAC-2K on top of Scope mixers (like spacef's ) and Sonar for MIDI, a few must have VSTs, recording/tracking with Scope synths and plugs doing the real heavy lifting.

Been pretty much the same for over 12 years, except for the PCs, and some newer VSTs and Windows versions. My Roland MKB MIDI keyboard controller is 20 years old! Still love it for organ, without aftertouch, but I have others for that synth feel; saves controller settings in 8 banks of 128 for instant recall with one press. No PC needed. Only needed batteries once! But I digress? I suppose not when speaking longevity or stuff I could'nt do without. Scope is the top of that list. More than just glue, it's the heart and central nervous system of the whole lot. It's where my spirit gets to soar!

[zerocrossing]

Depends how you use it. This year so far Ive mixed 91 projects at 96Khz using the XITE-1D as a mastering engine and synth. Goal to remix 100 by years end now in site. 96KHz no issue here.

My idea was to run it at 96khz when doing a project that involves a modular patch that utilizes audio rate modulations, similar to how I now use Reaktor. It definitely improves things on the ol' Dell, but tends to use up all my CPU cycles for its greedy little self. Maybe my thoughts are misguided and a little unclear (bonus points if you get the reference) but I thought I could use the XITE for that and then still be able to run some software VST effects within LIve. It's not really a big deal though, I only do modular wank-o-rama stuff every now and then.

[zerocrossing]

I use an 828 Mk II Firewire on a laptop and route in and out of my Scope box via ADAT with no issues. I don't need more than the two pres for vocals and guitars at any one time. Of course it has an additional 8 line inputs for analog gear as well.

I think I'll try to do the 828 as you describe. Temporarily, so I can channel some funds for a few software plug ins. Then, I'll know what to ask Santa for.

More than just glue, it's the heart and central nervous system of the whole lot. It's where my spirit gets to soar!

Strong words! At first I was thinking it was either an XITE-1D or a Modulus .002, but after some inquiries it's pretty clear the .002 won't work for me. I hadn't known that the voices are hard panned for some reason. Oh, and modulation amounts happen at the source, so if you decide that your LFO is going to modulate filter cut off by 50% then if you want it to also modulate PWM or something, it also has to be 50%. STUPIT. It does sound glorious though. My hope is that Scope instruments run rings around it, and I think I'd be correct in that assumption.

[tlaskows]

There's always Modular 4 for Scope if you wanna get your hands dirty. You can have like 100 LFOs

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

There's always Modular 4 for Scope if you wanna get your hands dirty. You can have like 100 LFOs

-Tom

Yeah, I look forward to digging into that side of things as well, though 100 LFOs sounds a bit much for my meager sound design skills.