Happy Birthday U.S.A.

[garyb]

this is not the first time such a game has been played.
read "The Creature From Jekyll Island"....

[braincell]

I don't want to undermine the constitution, I want to modernize it. First of all, we are no longer in revolutionary times. We have a very stable government and very few people want to change it through violence so the notion that we need guns for this is laughable. Secondly we need to update it for the internet to put more specific privacy laws in there. I would also like to once and for all put the right for an abortion in the constitution and stop all this bickering about it since that is what most people want. There are other improvements we could make. You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to see that it has flaws. It is so vague in some areas and it is very very old. Like I said before don't treat it like it's so sacred and perfect that we shouldn't change it. That is BS. We have had stagnation for too long with this document. You can say I don't know the constitution, that is fair enough but I know enough about it to see that it has flaws. It is not perfect and we could make it better. That is so obvious. It is so difficult to get any changes. It's frustrating. Most of us think the electoral college is stupid but we can't get rid of it. Why? I think that people are afraid of any change whatsoever. Once a tradition starts it's here for eons. It's like mother's day and the 4th of July holiday. Things exist because that is the way we do things and for no good reason. Presidents day.... nobody cares. It's just a day things go on sale.

[valis]

I'm no constitutionalist really, but I don't see that it's the fundamental source of the ills right now. There is a system for making it better already. If you know the U.S. Constitution well, surely you're familiar with amendments, the judicial and legislative bodies it defines the roles for? Are you just trolling to keep this constantly us topics?

[braincell]

I don't answer any questions about me. Say whatever you want. Insult me. I will not insult you. I don't stoop to that juvenile level.

[Shroomz~>]

I don't want to undermine the constitution, I want to modernize it. First of all, we are no longer in revolutionary times. We have a very stable government and very few people want to change it through violence so the notion that we need guns for this is laughable. Secondly we need to update it for the internet to put more specific privacy laws in there. I would also like to once and for all put the right for an abortion in the constitution and stop all this bickering about it since that is what most people want. There are other improvements we could make. You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to see that it has flaws. It is so vague in some areas and it is very very old. Like I said before don't treat it like it's so sacred and perfect that we shouldn't change it. That is BS. We have had stagnation for too long with this document. You can say I don't know the constitution, that is fair enough but I know enough about it to see that it has flaws. It is not perfect and we could make it better. That is so obvious. It is so difficult to get any changes. It's frustrating. Most of us think the electoral college is stupid but we can't get rid of it. Why? I think that people are afraid of any change whatsoever.

You're contradicting yourself several times in this statement, which is exactly what we've come to expect from politicians that don't know their arse from their elbow. I hope you're not a politician Braincell. We (I don't say that literally ) need politicians who know what they're talking about. In your case that means knowing what you're talking about in terms of America & it's people. Do you you know what you're talking about? Serious question btw.

[garyb]

he knows nothing of the document, how government is supposed to work, or how completely the people in government have undermined the most basic rules of government, designed to frustrate tyrranical aims...

the activities of these men are noithing short of criminal and then their lackeys have the nerve to shout "treason"!

c'mon braincell! you'll stoop occasionally! you just often edit those posts later!

you can't claim moral high ground by shouting treason at me(even metaphorically) when the things you are calling for threaten to destroy the legitimate government of the PEOPLE of the United States in the name of "fixing" it....

[braincell]

I do know that lawyers are constantly arguing over what the constitution says or means. That is an indication that it is not clearly written. Surely you can agree with this Gary. If it was concise, they wouldn't have to fight about what's in it.

[iSiStOy]

The problem is systemic though, in that (imo) it is fueled as much by human nature as it is by the power elite.

True, true, true...

I'd say I consider this to be the real deal, regarding our world's behaviour.

Every time I turn things in my head trying to understand why the past/present situation (driven consumerisms and religions as opium for the masses, stupid laws based on fear to enslave us a bit more everyday while most critical questions like neglected diseases killing many are not even debated), it's just so clear to me that our strongest (worst) instincts are acting more than ever and not even in disguise.

F...g human nature!

[valis]

I don't answer any questions about me. Say whatever you want. Insult me. I will not insult you. I don't stoop to that juvenile level.

I didn't insult you, I am however sometimes wondering what your motivations are. My previous musings about learning disabilities etc were also not ill-willed, if there was such a barrier in our communications knowing about it could really ease tensions. Similar to when someone shows up here and posts something up that's nearly incomprehensible, then states the problem is their lack of ability to use the English language. I am far less skilled in most of the other world's dialects so it's something I can easily forgive, and if you're younger than we are aware of (inexperienced) or have some other situation that can be factored in it might help ease tensions a lot. And there is of course the possibility that your contradictions, random tangents and somewhat incessant contradictory behaviour is motivated by something else.

I do know that lawyers are constantly arguing over what the constitution says or means. That is an indication that it is not clearly written. Surely you can agree with this Gary. If it was concise, they wouldn't have to fight about what's in it.

The Constitution clearly states that the purpose of the courts is to interpret laws, including the primary law of the land--the constitution. My understanding is that this was put in in an effort to 'future proof' the document so that it's open to being reinterpreted as the world changes, applying its underlying 'intent' to 'circumstances'. So imo it follows that the job of lawyers IS expressly to debate over their interpretations, not decide, so if they are arguing over the constitution one might say they're doing the work they're supposed to be doing. Of course this does open that interpretation up to manipulation, but again lawyers don't decide anything. My understanding is that is for jurors and judges.

[garyb]

actually, it IS pretty darn clear. it is the job of lawyers to "muddy the waters". it's easy to rationalize...i wonder, have you READ it and then just checked the reality vs. what you read? i don't need an "expert" to read it for me and then explain it.


it's just like the law in EVERY state that requires an officer of the law, when he makes an arrest, to take the arrestee DIRECTLY to a magistrate, where the policeman is supposed to GIVE EVIDENCE as to why he's detained the man and the magistrate is to decide then if he is to be held for bail and trail or released, the idea being that it's stupid to leave the jailhouse key in the hands of the arrestor, and that the innocent deserve protection FROM the law. if the magistrate cannot be reached, he must be summoned IMMEDIATELY, and there is a limit as to how long a prisoner can be held. if the prisoner is not brought before a magistrate at the VERY earliest that a magistrate sits at the bench, the officer is to be charged with kidnapping! how many counties actually follow this procedure and how many claim it to be too inconvienient? how can the federal government pass laws getting around this most basic human right? if the officers of the law are themselves daily lawbreakers and criminals, how can the rest of society who must endure such corrupt rule be blamed?

here's an example of the depth of the lies:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... rveillance yes, Mr. Gonzales is from the Republican administrations, but wehen the current "Democratic" regime took power and had a chance to repudiate such blatanly illegal activity such a presidentially ordered surviellance of innocent Americans, they refused to do so.

face it, the government is not following it's own rules and you are calling for further deviation.

[valis]

Or to legitimize that deviation.

Heck, on the subject of NSA taps & Albert Gonzales, read through the thread on emptywheel dissecting the just-released Unclassified Version of Report to Congress on NSA Program (eff.org) and note that Mr. Gonzales gives testimony:

Although there was no legal requirement that the Authorization be certified by the Attorney General or other Department of Justice official, current and former DOJ officials told us that this certification added value by giving the program a sense of legitimacy. Former Attorney General Gonzales stated that the NSA was being asked to do something it had not done before, and it was important to assure the NSA that the Attorney General had approved the legality of the program.

My understanding is that this is saying is that instead of following the legally defined FISA mechanisms for surveillance of foreign communications with American Citizens, we'll just throw all that out (including the bit that forbids surveillance of Americans otherwise without pen-trap authorizations PER subject) because the Executive branch & DOJ Attorney General (you know, the guy supposed to bring lawsuits to court instead of acting as a Decider) supposedly now define what 'legality' is. So the solution is...the constitution is broken and needs to be redone?

[iSiStOy]

Sorry about being that late on that topic but allow me to tell you about my experience of health insurance here, in Switzerland (I could compare with France and Luxembourg as well) :

Costs between 200 & 300 chf (nearly equal to $ currently) / month and IS mandatory (called LAMal).
No reimbursement before having been invoiced 300 chf / year.
No cover for dental, nor glasses. You need complementary insurance.
Politicians claim it is a good thing because health care accounts are balanced (I guess they are more than balanced).
LAMal is private insurance companies (hundreds of them, it's a market!) and they constantly increases contributions (sometimes by 10% steps), meaning concurrence is not even part of that game.

Many citizens have critics about that system as it is definitively unequal (instead of at least paying in relation to what you earn) and is definitively made for some economical/lobbying purpose so that, each time a federal referendum is called for this system to change (yes, we can here. I mean not me because I am not Swiss), it fails.

Knowing that, I personally think it is a big mistake as it will not do some good to people in the mid-long term.

[garyb]

yes, exactly. the FISA courts themselves are illegal and out of the government's jurisdiction, yet this slim protection for honest citizens is even too much to follow, even though the FISA courts have been rubber stamps when it comes to warrants. better to just spy on everyone and then brag about being the land of the free...

no, this wouldn't even be an issue with the actual constitution. the document isn't supposed to make it easy for anyone to have their way with the mechanism of government to form dictatorships. it's supposed the ASSURE the opposite which is gridlock. it is the people's only protection against corruption and yet the people have been programmed to think that their shield is a problem...

[garyb]

Sorry about being that late on that topic but allow me to tell you about my experience of health insurance here, in Switzerland (I could compare with France and Luxembourg as well) :

Costs between 200 & 300 chf (nearly equal to $ currently) / month and IS mandatory (called LAMal).
No reimbursement before having been invoiced 300 chf / year.
No cover for dental, nor glasses. You need complementary insurance.
Politicians claim it is a good thing because health care accounts are balanced (I guess they are more than balanced).
LAMal is private insurance companies (hundreds of them, it's a market!) and they constantly increases contributions (sometimes by 10% steps), meaning concurrence is not even part of that game.

Many citizens have critics about that system as it is definitively unequal (instead of at least paying in relation to what you earn) and is definitively made for some economical/lobbying purpose so that, each time a federal referendum are called for this system to change, it fails.

Knowing that, I personaly think it is a big mistake but to think it will do some good to people in the mid-long term.

sure, even the casinos allow SOME people to win and benefit. otherwise, all the suckers would give up and go home.

the thing is, America is built on the idea that a man doesn't need an aristocracy to take good care of him....

[iSiStOy]

And Switzerland is some contradictory place where a few hundred thousand of people signatures can call the vote of all confederation citizen tosay "Yes" or "No" to some "john doe" 's project to change things politically. But in parallel, you see the wealthiest being more protected, able to directly negotiate their fiscal contribution to the confederation, the accountability just beginning to bend to international rules, because of the international ERP products.
My own experience with some NGOs is quite refreshing though, happily but let's wait for the time when they will have crucial choices to make with donors constraints

[dawman]

Well I'll be damned,
I thought Brotha' Man iSiStOy was a Cowboy from the Tetons where we have a Calvin Lake.
Great fishing hole BTW.
One of the more alarming concerns of mine is the Dental Plans which Americans should really take pride in. Dentistry is expensive, and insurnace companies actually have great coverage and only ask that pre authorization be required so not to waste the coverage.
Millions of Americans are unisured because they are young and don't want to pay money for something they don't use. Young men want a fancy car to chase the babes around with, which they buy from hard work. Some want new gear like me, a habit I will never outgrow.
These numbers are used by policticians to make the case for both sides.
My parents knew I would never buy my own insurance and it wasn't required back then.
I never even needed insurance until I saw how much my first son's dentist bills were. Then I figured it was worth it just for the Dentist.
These Government plans are all being argued upon by everyone and yet no details in coverage, and the usual have to hurry up and read 1300 pages of lawyer Spu to pass it.
Ask one politician if they have read it, and they all dodge the issue.....................
That is why Americans are upset at the stooges behind this ploy. As usual politicians all have their " Add Ons " and nobody read the bill. I am getting 7900 USD between Scope 4live jr. and me this year, but when I see these characters dancing around the same way they did with with the stimulus bill by not even reading it of course I am leary. And why can't they say if there is a dental plan...???? Oh that's billions extra and we don't want to talk about that, or the fact it will be the worst doctors in the field providing it. Anyone whe has ever been to the local VA hopital knows what free means when Uncle Sam uses the word.
At any rate I am getting Full dentures finally since my teeth have been shot since Hockey days, 2-3000 a year just to keep them healthy so because I fear I will never get this treatment from Uncle Sam or will have to look like a Horse by some unskilled unemployable fed, I am doing this before my coverage goes broke from trying to compete with the politically correct plan.
If anyone here thinks politicians passing this bill will subject their families to such coverage is just a lemming.

[iSiStOy]

Dental care is a big problem in my opinion as well.

Last year, I broke one tooth and for it to be extracted + 2 preliminary X Rays, costed me 500. 1h at the dentist. Quite profitable. No f...g reimbursement, thanks to the 3600 I pay every year to LAMal.

Back when I was in France, Social Security was covering the totality of conventional prices for orthodontics (knowing that most practicians have non-conventional prices) and my parents were safe with some common complementary insurance so that it was definitively affordable to the majority.

Maybe for some, orthodontics can be considered a luxury, but I had a 6 years treatment as it was going really wrong since the beginning and I'm glad I was born in France for that.

Now I hear Swiss dentist associations claiming the success of health politics and prevention here because they see less and less people asking for treatment. But of course! Nobody will want to pay the amount of cash and so are "forced" to wait till it's too late.
That's not prevention!?

[iSiStOy]

Now with USA birthday... Such a great day to remember: fighting against the European banking system at the time.

I feel it's like the French national day celebrating revolution of 1789 (14th of July) and Liberty, Equality and Fraternity.

Only words now...

As you may all know already, you guys from the USA, the world is having a close look at your country at the moment, hoping for a ground shaking reaction, and only then some changes from your administration.

[siriusbliss]

Now with USA birthday... Such a great day to remember: fighting against the European banking system at the time.

I feel it's like the French national day celebrating revolution of 1789 (14th of July) and Liberty, Equality and Fraternity.

Only words now...

As you may all know already, you guys from the USA, the world is having a close look at your country at the moment, hoping for a ground shaking reaction, and only then some changes from your administration.

They'll be waiting for that 'reaction' for a long time. Obomba has the wool pulled over our eyes. He's just another shill for the bankers that put him in office. Totally manufactured. Things they're calling 'change' are just the same issues with a new face. Nothing will get resolved.

You know, I use to sit around my parents' basement and fantasize about an idealistic society, but until I studied ontology, and at one point had to combat the IRS (can't start a record label using personal 'income'), I hadn't seen the light.

I fear the US is gone anyways, so BC gets his wish. Hope ya'all are ready to stand in line for basic necessities, pay a per-mileage fee (essentially turning your car into a rental vehicle), stand in line to get your teeth cleaned by a low-quality government approved dentist, be told when/where/how to travel to see your family and friends because it's not a 'carbon day', and you aren't allowed to drive if you're in region 'X', or district 'Y', etc. etc.

All it takes is one more 'attack' by some other CIA-trained fucker like bin-what's-his-name (or whatever covert smokescreen provocation), and it's all gone.

Enemies are handed to us on TV so we don't have to think or know who's really behind the workings of the world.
Our health education is funded by pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies.
Our politicians are bought-n-paid for by the same (and oil companies).
Our housing policies are developed by people that live in big houses that our tax dollars (supposedly) pay for.

Nothing will change - it's just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Greg

[dawman]

Yes but our Brethren from Europe are tired of seeing the west using it's military instead of diplomacy.
I tend to agree.
The change I would like to see is the US withdrawing it's Europen Bases and missiles from around the world.
S.Korea and Japan are also capable of handling themselves too.
Of course we are allies and can provide plenty of help w/ Subs and B2's and Satellite based systems.
Russia and Europe should discuss their alliances too.
I am sick and tired of seeing our boys used like pawns because of Big Oil, OPEC and the UN.
Instead of Nation building lets fix our own infrastructure like the shovel ready jobs were suppose to do.
Obama has the power to break away from the power structure of old if he really wanted to.
The world loves him, and he has a rubber stamp in the Senate and House.
Let's see if he can make history or keep repeating it.