CHANGE ??

[garyb]

how did the german, austrian, czech and polish people put up with their evil rulers when they put people into camps? i KNOW that most german, austrian, czech and polish people are beautiful, kind and loving. these kinds of things are done WITHOUT permission, yet somehow they are done and cooperated with...

[eliam]

How unfortunate that I hardly find a sentence in this thread speaking of true solutions rather than regurgitating the mashed up (nonetheless probably true) info about destructive human nonsense. Excuse my crude realism but this discussion somehow illustrates -in some ways- why so few problems seem to get solved...

[siriusbliss]

• return individual sovereignty to US Citizens.
  Reboot the US government.
  Eradicate all corrupt officials.
  Shut down the Fed.
  Kill the IRS
  Shut down the borders

etc. etc.

...and here are some suggestions from an economist (first draft):


1. Stop all foreclosures immediately for at least five years and for the duration of the depression by means of a compulsory federal law carrying criminal penalties. No foreclosures on homes, family farms, factories, public utilities, hospitals, transportation and other infrastructure. Outlaw adjustable rate mortgages.

2. Raise the federal minimum wage immediately to a living wage of at least $15 per hour, with the short-term goal of attaining a federal minimum wage of at least $20 per hour.

3. Immediate enactment of a securities transfer tax (STT) or Tobin tax of 1% to be imposed on all financial turnover in all financial markets to include the New York Stock Exchange, the NASDAQ, the Amex, the Chicago Board of Trade, the Chicago Board Options Exchange, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, the market in federal securities, the foreign exchange market, the New York Mercantile Exchange, and all other financial markets. This tax will be paid by the seller. This tax will be extended to the notional value of all derivatives, including over-the-counter derivatives, exchange traded derivatives, structured notes, designer derivatives and all other financial paper. Derivatives will become reportable under penalty of law. It is conservatively estimated that the securities transfer tax will yield approximately $5 trillion of new revenue in its first year of application. This new revenue will permit a stabilization and consolidation of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and will permit the expansion of Head Start, the Food Stamps program, WIC, the Veterans Administration hospitals, while extending unemployment insurance up to an initial total of at least 52 weeks, to be prolonged as needed. Provide revenue sharing to deal with the looming deficits of states, counties, and municipalities.

4. Using the new revenue obtained from the securities transfer tax on Wall Street financiers, provide comprehensive tax relief for all small businesses, thus permitting them to pay the new living wage. Small business will also be aided by the provision of national single-payer health care, as described below.

5. Implement Medicare for all in the form of a single payer, universal coverage, publicly administered system to provide healthcare for all. No rationing of care will be permitted under any circumstances. Cost-cutting will be achieved through eliminating exorbitant corporate profits, through administrative reform, and above all through a federally-funded crash program, on the scale of the Manhattan Project, of biomedical research designed to discover new and more effective treatments and cures for the principal diseases currently afflicting humanity.

6. Simultaneously, enact comprehensive income tax relief for working families, raising the standard deduction for married filing jointly and the personal exemption to at least $25,000 each. This would mean that a family of four would pay no federal income tax on their first $125,000 of income. Expand the earned income tax credit (EITC) to approximately 4 times its current level, with at least $150 billion paid out. Increase EITC payments to persons living alone as well as to families with children. Make all college tuition and fees expenses deductible, and remove the limits on the Hope and Lifetime Learning tax credits. Return to the FDR-Ike-JFK 90% top marginal rate for unearned income ­ capital gains, interest, dividends, royalties, etc., not wages or self-employment -- of taxpayers with federal adjusted gross income over $25 million. Roll back the scandalous Bush tax cuts for the rich. Favor progressive taxation over proportional and regressive taxation at every level. Phase out the most regressive taxes, like the poll tax and the sales tax.

7. Nationalize the Federal Reserve System and establish it as a bureau of the United States Treasury. The current privatized status of the Federal Reserve System constitutes a violation of the United States Constitution. The size of the money supply and interest rates will henceforward be decided not by cliques of private bankers meeting in secret, but rather by public laws passed by the House and Senate, and signed by the president. Use this authority to immediately issue an initial tranche of $1 trillion of new federal credits at 1% yearly interest rates and maturities up to 30 years, to be repeated as needed. Consider credit as a public utility. Make this initial credit issue available on a priority basis to states, counties and local governments for the purpose of infrastructure modernization. Distribute credit to the private sector for high-technology re-industrialization in plant, equipment and jobs, manufacturing, mining, farming, construction, and other production of tangible physical wealth and commodities only. Aim at the creation of 5 to 7 million new productive jobs at union pay scales per year to achieve full employment for the first time in decades.

8. Federally-sponsored infrastructure projects will include a new nationwide network of magnetic levitation railways, as well as light rail systems to facilitate commuting in all urban centers. These economical and attractive light rail systems will allow a large portion of the vehicle miles by private automobile using internal combustion engines to be phased out of use in daily commuting. Launch a public works program of highway and bridge reconstruction, water management systems, electrical grids, hospitals, schools, cultural facilities, and public libraries.

9. Comprehensive re-regulation of the entire financial and banking system. Regulate the current non-bank banks. Bring all the hedge funds under the oversight of the Securities and Exchange Commission, thus effectively ending their special outlaw status as hedge funds. Begin aggressive enforcement of all applicable antitrust and securities fraud laws, as well as all existing labor legislation, including child labor, wages and hours, etc. Repeal the Taft-Hartley law with its anti-union "right to work" provisions, re-affirm the inalienable right to collective bargaining, and revive the National Labor Relations Board as an effective ally of working people. Full Davis-Bacon Act enforcement for all federal contracts, without exception. Tax leveraged buyouts and private capital deals, including all profits deriving from them, in whatever form. End corporate welfare, and establish consumer protection. Revive Glass-Steagall to prevent nationwide banking oligopolies combining commercial banking with investment banking.

10. Free college for all qualified students. Any student earning a high school diploma will be entitled to free tuition and fees at a community college or state university. High quality remedial courses to give high-school dropouts a second chance, no matter what their age. Without investment in the human capital of a highly trained work force, there can be no economic survival in the 21st century. Federal aid to raise teacher salaries through revenue sharing.

11. Announce the intention of the United States to abrogate NAFTA, WTO, and all other international free trade agreements which have destroyed employment in this country, while increasing the poverty levels of the third world. Introduce a low protective tariff, starting at 10% ad valorem on manufactured commodities to prevent reckless dumping.

12. Investment tax credit for purchase modern technology in the form of new physical tangible capital goods. Tax breaks for the creation of new jobs in physical commodity production. Severe tax penalties for the export of jobs to third world sweatshops.

13. Immediately impeach and remove from office both Bush and Cheney, since otherwise all effective measures to deal with the Bush economic depression will be crippled by presidential vetoes. Prepare the impeachment of the RATS (Roberts-Alito-Thomas-Scalia) cabal of the Supreme Court, if they should attempt to sabotage this emergency economic recovery program under the color of judicial review.

14. Protect the family farm by a program of debt moratorium for farmers, no foreclosures, 1% long-term federal credit for spring planting needs and capital improvements, Restore parity prices at 125% of parity. Rebuild farm surpluses and food stockpiles. Food for Peace for famine relief abroad.

15. Keep open the options of capital controls and exchange controls if required by further deterioration of the crisis. Prepare to freeze most categories of financial debt (debt moratorium) for the duration of the crisis. Revive Defense Production Act powers to mandate production of needed commodities by private sector, as needed.

16. Call an international economic conference of sovereign states to deal with this unprecedented world economic depression. The United States should take the lead in proposing a new world monetary system based on the alienable right of all nations and peoples to modern economic development and to the enjoyment of the fullest fruits of science, technology, industry, progress, and rising standards of living. The new monetary system should be based on fixed parities with narrow bands of fluctuation among the euro, the dollar, the yen, the ruble, and other world currencies, including emerging Latin American and Middle East regional currencies, with periodic settlement of balance of payments discrepancies in gold among national authorities. The goal of the new system is to promote world economic recovery through large-scale export of the most modern high-technology capital goods from the US, EU, and Japan to the developing countries. Create a Multilateral Development Bank with an initial capital of 1 trillion euros from US, UK, Japan, and other exporters to finance investment in the poorest countries with 1%, revolving loans with maturities up to thirty years. Immediate, permanent, and unconditional cancellation of all international financial debts of the poorest countries.

17. Revive international humanitarian, scientific and technological cooperation for the benefit of all nations. Roll back epidemic, tropical, and endemic diseases with an international program of biomedical research. Join with all interested nations in a joint international effort to develop new energy resources in the field of high-energy physics. Fund and expand an international cooperative commitment to the exploration, permanent colonization, and economic development of the moon and nearby planets. The spin-offs from these three science drivers will provide the new technologies for the next wave of economic modernization.

18. Revive the Franklin D. Roosevelt "freedom from want" provision of the Atlantic Charter as elaborated in the Economic Bill of Rights from the State of the Union Address of January 1944 and incorporate these economic rights of all persons as amendments to the US Constitution: "The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; the right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; the right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living; the right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad; the right of every family to a decent home; the right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; the right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment; the right to a good education."

[garyb]

"return individual sovereignty to US Citizens.
Reboot the US government.
Eradicate all corrupt officials.
Shut down the Fed.
Kill the IRS
Shut down the borders"

i'll go with this part. i'd go with most of the rest of the post as well, except for a couple of points that are really poison disguised as medicine, but that's just mho....


Eliam, before there can be any talk of solutions, there has to be agreement that there is a problem to solve.

as for the thread's topic of "change", that's a term that is thrown around too loosely these days. so is "progress". everybody's rushing to make progress and change, but to what and to what end? the political "change" that people always want, is the elimination of the rule of the corrupt minority. the choice offered is a change in the face of the corruption. the solution is easy, if the population is ready to deal with the reality of their enslavement. being soveriegn and free is just too much of a burden for most to pick up, and most have no clue what that even means.

oohhhh polemics!

[Zer]

why is that polemics are only depending on the party you support?

[alfonso]

too much TV.....


voting is not just a charade in the USA. in europe, how many REALLY approved of the EU constitution? i noticed that the constitution that was voted down is being implemented anyway....

That's not exact. Until now only what is coming from signed agreements and unanimous approval is effective, and everything has to be approved by the single states parliaments. Only some matters regarding the common currency and a single market area are regulated, like the rules for people and goods movement, central banking (inevitable for a single currency) and the quality standards of the different productions, in many cases far superior in terms of health preservation than in any other part of the world.

While I know that at any level the economical elites always tend to put their hands in the rule to increase their power, and this doesn't change from the local or national level to a wider one, I disagree with the ideological refuse of wider political institutions, let me explain why.

First of all I don't believe in absolutes, democracy is not a perfect realization or a solid condition. Democracy is an historical process of fragmentation of the power that goes on every time that, structurally, the larger groups have an effective strength to condition the elites. It has happened with revolutions or with enlightened perceptions of reality by the central powers, but in any case by necessity.

The economical processes are globalized. this cannot be changed. The same fact that we are here, discussing about the same product, exchanging knowledge and opinions and trading stuff is just the mirror of what's happening on every single item and field. Money already flows, decisions are taken on a much higher level than each one of us can control from his own neighborhood.

Now, the answer can't be to think and act like this was not happening. Building public institutions that can bring democratic control on these processes is absolutely necessary. It won't be fast. It won't be perfect. It won't be straightforward and without traps under any corner. But sincerely, if 3-4 centuries ago you could be burned on a stoke because of your opinions on god and the agriculture workers were sold together with the land, and now it isn't so, we have to thank only the fact that the small people got a wider sense of identity, made revolutions and more democratic institutions at a wider level, the same level of those who were controlling their lives. There have been horrors and power games in the French revolution, in the American revolution, and even more in all the social movements in the world. But on the long run this brought benefits.
I want to be understood. I don't say that in any case a world government is good, far from me this idea, but if you want to be realistic and defeat the intrinsecal fascism that is in every centralized power you have to make this power evident and public.

These power centrals exist in any case. They have to be controlled somehow. Now, think who is promoting more the ideology of the small group, the small church, the nationalism, the family and the mistic of the different as an enemy, the "god with us" (gott mit uns...remember?) and the isolationism. Isn't maybe promoted by those who want to isolate us, common people from the upper levels? They (the elites) are not isolated, they make their business worldwide anyway.

[garyb]

the real reason to maintain "national borders" is that they are a firewall against totalitarianism, disease and other human tragedy. they are important for the survival of human kind. without them, the evils that always end up in control of governments instead of facing multiple rivals in other states, can find themselves part of a unified system that has ultimate control over everyone. we are not moving towards more freedom, we are moving towards less. check the new laws....also, i have seen plenty of european mainstream news sources saying that although the EU constitution was rejected, nearly all of it's key points are being implemented. Tony Blair has said that the constitution isn't even needed anymore.....

back on the subject of sham elections, has any been able to figure out how Barak Obama didn't get even ONE vote in Harlem?

[dawman]

Yes.....................Bill Clinton moved his office there after he left the Presidency and used that facility to get his wife elected as a Senator in a state where she never lived, and hardly visited. Bill has been breaking bread at the table of many of the Brotha's there for a long time.

Recently he laundered 20 million for Hillary's newest quest with the thanks of the " Government " of Dubai. They had the Helicopters, and bulletproof SUV's circling the building while the deal went down. It had no effect on the local crack dealers though, they only cease activity temporariliy when Police cruisers make an apperance w/ their cherry tops.

The same " Government " of Dubai has invested 5 Billion USD into Las Vegas's City Center Project, due to open in 2010.

The same black choppers and SUV's hovered as they walked the property that is unfinished, Funny how such devout Muslims look in dark suits and no Turbins, etc.

[Me$$iah]

the European constitution was dismissed by the people of Europe.
So the governments got together and rewrote the constitution but this time they called it a treaty. As it a treaty, then the people have no right to vote on accepting it or not. The Eupoean governments signed it, without consulting the people. They intend on implementing it whether the people want it or not.... and in th UK the people do not want it. This is evil.

Do we have a choice tho... not according to our government.

Burn the lot of em... bastards

Let anarchy prevail

[siriusbliss]

The whole thing is a very sad shim sham.

So, IF there even IS an 'election' in November (another topic entirely), then what will people do with a hybrid Clinton/Bush cabal (using surrogates) continuing to dismantle the US economy, security, sovereignty, and privacy?

Maybe a miracle of miracle and the so called 'super delegates' all decide to support Ron Paul. NOT.

Very sad indeed...

Greg

[Zer]

What can we do ?

The answer is simple.

Built an autarkic living.

[garyb]

sorry stardust, i refuse to be reduced to "consumer". a consumer is a one dimensional automaton slave. i am a human being. "consuming" is just a small part of my function, which primarily is "being". don't disturb it.

to which "party" does the preceding polemic belong?

to my mind, i can party here or there, but my life belongs to none of them. it is my own. i will not be prodded, poked, folded, spindled, or questioned. you'll find out nothing. oh but we will. by hook or by crook, we will.......information!

[siriusbliss]

What can we do ?

The answer is simple.

Built an autarkic living.

Yeah, these bonehead elitists WANT to trigger anarchy so that they have more excuses to clamp down on us 'pleebs'.

Autarchy is a good idea IF people would even be capable of governing themselves, which I don't see the majority of people even able to do, let alone know what it is. Too much dependency and co-dependency on the systems that have been setup I believe.

My body, mind, soul (per say) are my own. End of story.

[alfonso]

What can we do ?

The answer is simple.

Built an autarkic living.

I'm absolutely curious to know what does it mean this.....make your own tomatoes, have a couple goats and forget Scope forever?

[siriusbliss]

What can we do ?

The answer is simple.

Built an autarkic living.

I'm absolutely curious to know what does it mean this.....make your own tomatoes, have a couple goats and forget Scope forever?

Yeah, THAT's when we'll know we're all screwed - when they declare Scope a risk to national security

Actually, gardens, extra food on hand (for a 'rainy day'), and even legal guns (in the US) are a good idea IMO. And no, I'm not paranoid. Just been through a few tornados and earthquakes to know how people react when things get tough. Doesn't hurt to be 'self-governed' and aware.


Greg

[Zer]

What can we do ?

The answer is simple.

Built an autarkic living.

I'm absolutely curious to know what does it mean this.....make your own tomatoes, have a couple goats and forget Scope forever?

That`s it exactly. Don`t forget - in an autarchy, majority is not what counts. It`s only yourself what counts. That`s what is promised by media should be reserved for the very rich people only, what is of course a lie.

Things are always belonging to you. If you are really in need of a scope system a studio and whatever, you should go on like the life you know. Only change it, if you really like to change it. Probably you have to miss some luxury, but you are independent , what is my ideal. You are not in need of anybody for anything. Nobody can oppress or depress you. That`s real freedom. And you won`t have the time to care for anything else, because you have to manage and produce everything on your own: Energy, water, food, house, clothes and so on. And good music sounds good even without a studio.
If you are more interested in driving fancy cars, wearing nice dresses and living a perfunctory life, do not change a thing. Vote McCain, Clinton,Obama or any betrayer you can find and enjoy your good life. But don`t even tell about a change, because it means only to pull the wool over somebodies eyes, which is therfore completely useless and makes no difference between you and the people you like to slag off. And don`t even think about blaming people for war, recession, crime and things alike. They are simply happening to make your nice villa and fancy cars getting paid, while others are suffering to death. That´s the deal. It is your decision what you want. You always will loose something and you always will win something. It is up to you to decide, what is more important for you. Don`t even think of changing peoples mind. You won`t. You can build a great pressure using weapons to make people behave like you want for a certain amount of time - any loss of concentration or a nap and you are insured or dead. Live those things, you want others to do and show it to the public, perhaps they will laugh, but maybe they will see the sense in what you are doing and will copy it. Anything else forces great pressure and reprosals.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

Do you still want a change or do you only want to have a nice chit-chat?

[garyb]

that's all become illegal in the USA in the last few years.

that is the american system, however. the constitution is supposed to assure one of one's sovereignty.....

[Zer]

hm...I'm sorry for it. Then you probably have only one way to get out:

[siriusbliss]

that's all become illegal in the USA in the last few years.

that is the american system, however. the constitution is supposed to assure one of one's sovereignty.....

yeah, maybe it was all just a dream...


<as I sit here listening to 'Where In The World' by Fish>

Greg

[hubird]

'Own sovereighnty' is a relative concept.
Two friends of mine who visited a friend in LA told me about a meal they cooked at home, as they got tired of all the out door eating everybody always does.
Ok, there was salmon, but they payed 160 dollar for just a nice home meal with fresh vegetables.
A head of normal salad was priced 8 dollar, I pay one dollar here at max.
This means that the majority in LA (and eldsewhere?) doesn't have access to essential life sources.
With a maximally reduced constitution, focussing mainly on own sovereighnty, economical processes unaskedly take over the role of socio-political decisions, like 'do we as a country prefer producing food for breeding meat or for our population?'.
There are more things important is what I just wanne say