Scope Home SPDIF and Line6 Toneport - which cable?

[BeachDrifter]

I have just discovered the strangeness of the SPDIF port on my newly aquired Home card
I've read the manual, and some of the posts here referrring to this SPDIF (and why creamware installed it to save space... is that true? looks like they could have squeezed a real one on if they had tried)

Anyway... I'm completely baffled by this. I bought a Toneport UX2 today, thinking I could patch straight into the Scope Home SPDIF via the SPDIF out of the Toneport; and straight into some sweet production in Cubase with my new toy.

What kind of cable will fulfill my needs?

The Toneport offers outputs of either the standard SPDIF RCA out or unbalanced analogue 1/4"

I can't find a cable to achieve this? Do I need some kind of media converter?

my aim is to use the SPDIF route just like I did when I had the old dog of an Audiophile in the system i.e. Select 'SPDIF' input in Cubase which then allows me to record audio line in at anytime (including during playback) but without having to mute any other audio channels. Just press 'record' when I like and I'm recording straight into the selected audio channel

Does anyone else have a Scope Home and Toneport who has been faced with this?

Or if you can think of any other way I can route from Toneport to Cubase that will give me a 'press record' environment?

[astroman]

well, in any caseyou need a proper s/pdif cable, preferably a quality one for digital audio, 75 Ohm - The yellow plugged video cable from the hifi department will work, 'regular' rca to mini stereo will not.
They don't damage anything, but will ruin the digital datstream - definetely.

I have absolutely no idea about the audio quality of the tone port, but it has no digital input, hence you'll have to slave Scope to it - not sure if that is a good idea.
Guessing from the features/price I wouldn't consider it a high quality unit - but one never knows.
I'd suspect there are better possibilities for guitar under Scope, yet I have to admit that the Home is slightly underpowered in this context - at least if you want to have the full load of fun the system can offer - and I mean strictly guitar.

don't misunderstand this as a diss of Line 6 (my guess is only common sense) or to discourage you, but you've just made a step into an excellent audio processing toolset and might miss something by unfortunate circumstances.

To give you an impression of what I compare: I have a small Korg Pandora PX4 because it's handy and convenient - it can be tweaked to sound 'nice' in one or the other way, but it's sound quality compared to Scope is pure sh*t.
I have tested the NI guitar rig demo versus a Scope amp simulation (one that's not even considered top of the line).
NI is a tinny little box, few substance - but with some fancy fx (admittedly) - yet it can't deny it's sonic anemia...

You may know either the Korg or the NI stuff and can compare it to Line 6 (which I cannot). You may load a free ampsim by Celmo onto your Scope home and judge yourself.
You should also test the analog connection between the Line 6 and Scope.
The analog input of your card is excellent - a 'cheap' digital connection is most likely worse.

the reason for this a bit longwinded blurb is to make you check both the Line & and Scope's audio carefully (!) and compare them.
You may find out that Scope offers a significant improvement - in that case you might still be able to exchange the Line 6 for a good (analog) preamp.
You may as well find out that the Line 6 is just your tone - in that case the simple things apply and you just connect the box as written above.

cheers, Tom

[astroman]

...Or if you can think of any other way I can route from Toneport to Cubase that will give me a 'press record' environment?

you'd preferably setup a few asio channels for the communication with Cubase.
Scope has nothing to do with that - the ready to record is happening entirely in the sequencer .

in a typical Scope setup you'd have the instrument input routed parallel and serial to several channels and devices, one of course the dry signal, but you can have saturation, space and delay fx each on their own stereo pair, 3 of them are a pretty punch on the ears...
it's extremely convenient, you can mix and mute whatever you like...

cheers, Tom

[Mr Arkadin]

i have a Podxt Pro, which SCOPE happily slaves to. Also it sounds bloody amazing and has lots of extras (including Bass amps). It also uses a Sharc DSP inside. However i assume the Toneport thing is native so i wouldn't like to say how that sounds, but i haven't been as impressed with the NI-type stuff as some people seem to be, and i still think the hardware Line 6 stuff takes some beating.

[kylie]

I've read the manual, and some of the posts here referrring to this SPDIF (and why creamware installed it to save space... is that true? looks like they could have squeezed a real one on if they had tried)

this is combo port (in and out).I can hardly imagine 2 rca sockets there. we all might prefer a breakuot cable here, but that's just a wish...

What kind of cable will fulfill my needs?

a standard soundblaster cable could do, mini stereo trs to dual rca. I checked one of mine; it is wired red rca middle connector to trs ring, black rca middle connector to trs tip and both rca shielding to trs sleeve. tip is input, ring is output, according to scope manual. if the rca middle connector is really signal (and wikipedia says yes), voila

EDIT: I wasn't quick enough. astroman destroyed my world .
maybe he has a better solution, but it's worth a test anyway...

[kylie]

well, in any caseyou need a proper s/pdif cable, preferably a quality one for digital audio, 75 Ohm - The yellow plugged video cable from the hifi department will work, 'regular' rca to mini stereo will not.
They don't damage anything, but will ruin the digital datstream - definetely.

is there such thing as the "high quality" trs to rca cable you mentioned? imho the yellow ones from the hifi department are rca to rca, but we all agree that it won't fit... I'd like to hear about a more professional solution compared to my soundblaster cable suggestion. I don't need spdif right now from/to my luna, but maybe there will be the need for that later...

-greetings, markus-

[astroman]

the 'yellow ones' rca-rca at least match the impedance, of course you need the infamous plug adapter then...
I've learned about the cables the simple way (when I had a digital mixer) by connecting it's s/pdif out by a regular audio cable to digital monitors.
What a nice vinyl surface noise emulator

unfortunately there is no indication on a 'quality' digital cable that tells you about it's 'quality' - so you have to rely on the reputation of the manufacturer.
You may pay significantly for the name, but then it takes a lot(!) of effort to distinguish a 'good' from a 'better' cable - and you'd have to buy both...
Without at least one reference cable you're lost anyway...

since I have a generation one pulsar (and an a16) I don't use s/pdif under scope.
as mentioned I use the converters of my old Philips digital tape to 'improve' the onboard sound of my internet machine, and as far as UTube is concerned that is ok - but the tracks in the planetZ music forum are already way beyond in quality - the digital out of the ac97 simply s*cks for those.

thanks to Mr. A's hint I'd assume that the Line 6 device use a Sharcs, too - though they seem to be really shy to admit... you know... it's outdated technology.
Peeked at the L6 forum and couldn' t trust my eyes - maybe those folks have played way to loud over all the years and now suffer from a permanent damage - without being aware of it

With a Sharc onboard that thing is almost certain to sound at least in the same direction as Scope amp sims (after all it's Analog Devices..)

cheers, tom

[BeachDrifter]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Astroman, I took your lead and focussed on using the analogue outs from the Line6 Toneport into the Analogue in on the Home card.
I opened the EZ recording .pro and hey presto, my routing is cured and my desired feature is working in Cubase.
Thanks for the push in the right direction!
I know the Toneport isn't a million bucks dream machine, but my first impressions from what I've heard tonight are pretty damn good.
I got myself a Dynatube FT yesterday and I'm piping it all through that.
I'm no great guitarist but the sound is bloody astonishing. When I get something laid down I'll post some demo's on the forum and let you see if it makes the grade or not.

As for the SPDIF scenario... I'll pick up one of those cables and give it a shot, but if the SPDIF quality out of the Toneport is sub-standard (which it is) to the Analogue in on the Scope Home card, then I think I will stick with my newly found happy solution and just enjoy myself for one small moment.

Thanks to Uncle Eric for the new card.

[astroman]

great it works, but did you slave Scope to the Line6 s/pdif and it still made a substantial difference in sound ?
with a proper cable I'd expect slightly more high mids and a bit 'harshness' possibly, but not exactly 'substandard'.

btw just noticed your location, my wife's favourite TV series (All things large and small) played in your area - while I'd rather prefer these moves

cheers, Tom

[BeachDrifter]

Not tried the SPDIF route yet. I went to get a cable but as you will be aware, all that is for sale in Yorkshire are agricultural products and charity shops and neither had SPDIF cables for sale

I'll stick with the current solution for now. I'm just happy to have all my tools laid out and working side by side. It's been a fight but I'm there now (All bar an STDM cable that I ordered about 2 months ago off Dolphin - which routes through Sonic8 I've found out - apparently 'special order' is hard to obtain? Yet i can order a Creamware card that goes from Germany to US to UK in 6 days? - bizzare - clearly the UK Creamware market is poorly catered for (and over priced that is for sure )
Anyway... I'll struggle on with these 3 DSP's for now... Yep.... it's a tough world but someone's gotta do it. 1 synth in the project and I'm about maxed out. You can see why I am desperate for the cable. They reckon this week. ha... lets see

[BeachDrifter]

I'm having really difficulty in finding a suitable cable for this SPDIF problem of mine. I've found this cheap cable on amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-Adapter-C ... lectronics

I'm disappointed if the only solution I have is to use something nasty like that.
from what i can gather, the problem is with the Toneport not having digital in. How can that be? When I had a Boss GT6 (that had no digital in, only out) I ran straight from that straight into the Audiophile then straight into cubase in pure clarity - no surface noise, no clicks, just pure guitar.
It's this scenario I want to achieve with the Toneport and my Scope Home. I tried the Analogue route last night and the results were poor. Clearly visible surface noise etc..
What if i put the Audiophile back in alongside the Creamware cards (I'd rather not of course, then I could hit other problems) but if this means I get my clean guitar sounds back then I will do it.
Then i guess I'd just have to switch between the 2 cards during recording in Cubase. I'm sure that this scenario would be a 'last resort' thing though, over complicated and not at all necessary.
If any of you could send me a link to a suitable SPDIF cable I'd be very grateful.

[astroman]

the cable in your link is for a different purpose - it will NOT work.

in the 'it's little things like this..' thread under General Discussion DJ posted a pic of the 'standard' adapter used for such things - it should be available even in extremely rural locations...

I commented it might put (unwanted) tension on the connector and he answered

Actually, when the ZLink ethernet cable is inserted below this jack, the thickness of the plastic on the minijack adapter makes it sit perfectly on top of the ZLink cable so there is no tension. A happy accident I'm sure.

so just plug in a firewire-cable (or connector) in case you don't use ZLink, and will be even mechanically ok. Of course it's no beauty, but it's behind the PC anyway...

this 'surface noise' is irritating - hard to imagine that Line 6 used anything else than a 5532 OP amp in it's output stage.
It's THE standard component for low noise apps and just costs 1.5 Euro in single quantities in DIY shops, that means a few cents for an industrial supplier.
Any guitar pickup will induce at least 10times the amount of noise

cheers, tom

[astroman]

... When I had a Boss GT6 (that had no digital in, only out) I ran straight from that straight into the Audiophile then straight into cubase in pure clarity - no surface noise, no clicks, just pure guitar...

they may have had a noise gate active... a guitar IS noisy by default, and some amp emulations even emphasize noise for authenticity

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

if a device has no digital in, then it must be the digital master. sp/dif will work without clicks and pops, for sure, but if the clock in the line 6 is of lesser quality than the scope card, you may get a better sound overall from going analog in rather than digital in(so that you don't have to clock your whole project to the line6). with a crappy "audiophile" card, who cares? both clocks there are likely equal. either way, you'll get a clean signal(analog in w/scope as master or sp/dif in w/scope as slave).

[BeachDrifter]

I hear what you are saying guys.
This morning, I was even condsidering putting the Audiophile back in and using it purely for any SPDIF work I would do in 'the base'
However, in light of the last couple of replies I've received, I wont do that.
Guitar is a desirable but not 'show stopping' item for me.
I bought my creamware solution because my love is electronic and noises and dancing and all that kind of stuff... and Creamware is certainly serving my needs for this (Yes, it even makes me wanna dance )
This SPDIF scenario is a nuisance, yes that is true, but now that I've spent a few days with the Line6 Toneport I realise, it just isn't pro-class by a long way.
There is some form of DSP in the hardware (it initialises this during bootup) but the quality is no better than other Native solutions I've heard (including Guitar Rig)
Buy cheap.... get cheap.
We all fall victim of these alluring offers from time to time.
As for the SPDIF port on the back of my Home card... forget it.... they might as well have fit an ashtray, it would be more use to me!

[garyb]

all you need to use sp/dif is one of these:
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/GRM-193.html

[BeachDrifter]

Ahhh.... the penny has final dropped
I was thrown off scent by the dual input. Don't ask me why. Must have been the Harvest Moon clouding my judgement.
I'll give it a shot. I'm sure I can pick one of those up from a local town.
Thanks for spelling it out for me

[garyb]

sure, no problem. one rca will be in, another out.